Posted: 7/25/2011 6:19 AM
Post subject: The Rocketeer
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TheHepper
Player (84)
Joined: 7/25/2011
Posts: 58
This is my first attempt at a TAS, and I only had the idea to start this game today. Since I know this will be a big project , I wanted to share my idea and get the community's input. I'm surprised I couldn't find any reference to this game in the forums, and since I thought it was pretty good as a kid, I hope I'm not missing something. The video linked below was recorded using the TAS Edit feature of fceux, and takes the Rocketeer through half of the first stage. The goals are 1) to not take damage and 2) fastest time. So far there does not appear to be a huge tradeoff between the two, so I hope this can be interesting. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1746614558/The%20Rocketeer.fm2
Posted: 7/25/2011 2:15 PM
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partyboy1a
Player (136)
Joined: 9/18/2007
Posts: 389
Welcome to TASvideos! Game choice might be bad, because
Wikipedia wrote:
The Rocketeer was awarded Worst Movie-to-Game of 1992 by Electronic Gaming Monthly
How long does it take to complete the game once? If it's more than 15 minutes, this is possibly too boring to watch. What you have done so far looked OK for a testrun. Complete it once in that way. When you finished it, go looking for more details, for example:
  • sometimes you stop after jumping high, sometimes you don't.
  • taking damage can save time. I recommend you to test both types of run to see what is better.
  • at around frame 2250, it might be a good idea to run a bit more to the right than necessary. when you then jump to the left, you will have a higher speed, gaining a few frames.
In any case, post your testrun here again. You may also post it in the WIP thread once you finished the testrun.
Posted: 7/26/2011 3:45 AM
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1638)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
I think this is actually a good game choice - I'd suggest just aiming for fastest time - there is definitely a balance in this game as to when to take damage. Best of luck, I look forward to more progress.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 8/2/2011 12:40 AM
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TheHepper
Player (84)
Joined: 7/25/2011
Posts: 58
Thanks for the advice! I changed the objective to fastest time only, and saved 129 frames compared to my first testrun. This movie takes the Rocketeer through the end of Chapter 1, in which he finally obtains the jetpack and fights his first boss. If anyone is interested in RAM addresses used, special moves, or the boss fight, let me know. I didn't want to make a long post that nobody asked for. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1290389869/The%20Rocketeer.fm2 In response to partyboy1a's comment about the stopping after high jumps, it appears to be a game design problem. If the Rocketeer performs a high-jump from his y-axis position to an equal or higher position, there is a small delay as he stops before landing and floats down. If he jumps to a lower y-axis position, this delay doesn't occur. I've tried all sorts of button combinations, including left-right, up-down, second player buttons, etc., but nothing helps. In regards to the movie length, I have not played through this game since I was a kid. The only complete run I could find online was the below run in 2 parts on youtube. It takes 30 minutes to complete, is not a speedrun, and completes Chapter 1 in approx. 5 minutes, whereas I complete it in approx. 3 minutes. Assuming the same rate of improvement, my movie should end in 18 minutes. However, I think I can get it under 15 since I can manipulate enemies into giving me rocket fuel, thereby substantially improving the run speed. See the two links below for the other run, if interested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bp1tKTdoVk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KHlMnjHre0 Lastly, I don't know how to turn these files into youtube videos, but when I learn, I'll post in the WIP section.
Posted: 8/4/2011 4:32 AM
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TheHepper
Player (84)
Joined: 7/25/2011
Posts: 58
Here is a youtube link for the WIP. For some reason, the file size was almost 2g and FCEUX cut it in two .avi files. But you do get a little preview of my plan for Chapter 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1AMk0P9OXw
Posted: 8/6/2011 12:54 AM
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partyboy1a
Player (136)
Joined: 9/18/2007
Posts: 389
You can continue to play with zero health. Therefore, instead of jumping at 2438, take damage and perform a lower jump. This saves 4 or 5 frames. You had one health left, so you can use it there. As you see here, such "damage taking plans" are quite impossible if you just go through the level only one time -- even if you try to do perfect moves at every place. You can't know all the places where taking damage is an option in the first try... Therefore, you need at least two tries. I did the same in my Roadrunner movie to plan the seed consumption. If you have some longer texts, you could either put them into [ code ] ... [ / code] or you can use pastebin. Such things are always interesting. (The good and bad thing is that it will make it easier for others to obsolete your run...) This run looked MUCH better than the first one. Go on with it!
Posted: 8/17/2011 6:12 PM
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partyboy1a
Player (136)
Joined: 9/18/2007
Posts: 389
Are you still working on it?
Posted: 8/21/2011 11:20 PM
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TheHepper
Player (84)
Joined: 7/25/2011
Posts: 58
I'm still working on it, but progress was delayed due to a week and a half of vacation. Thanks so much for the support and all your advice! I changed my strategy, and complete the first chapter 105 frames faster than the previous movie. At this point I'm finally satisfied with the run for Chapter 1, so please let me know if there is anything I should improve on. I'm also posting the youtube video of Chapter 1 in the WIPs section once it has finished uploading. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1622304907/The%20Rocketeer.fm2 Edit: Chapter 2 completed, although I may need to avoid taking damage at frame 16090 or manipulate an extra heart drop depending on how the rest of the chapters play out. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1501676058/The%20Rocketeerv3.fm2
Posted: 8/22/2011 5:43 AM
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1638)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
I watched the encode. This is turning out far better than expected! Keep up the good work.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 9/4/2011 2:46 AM
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TheHepper
Player (84)
Joined: 7/25/2011
Posts: 58
Thanks for the encouragement! Big update here, Chapters 5/6 completed in approximately 11 minutes. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1410905136/The%20Rocketeerv7.fm2 Also, some trivia:
Wikipedia wrote: The Rocketeer was awarded Worst Movie-to-Game of 1992 by Electronic Gaming Monthly
I actually viewed a copy of the 1992 EGM review book, and Wikipedia was wrong about this. In fact, I don't think EGM ever reviewed the NES Rocketeer game, although they did review the SNES version. This game came out in 1991, and EGM gave the prestigious Worst Movie-to-Game award to Home Alone. Wikipedia has since updated its article to reflect this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rocketeer_%28NES_game%29
Posted: 9/4/2011 11:22 AM
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partyboy1a
Player (136)
Joined: 9/18/2007
Posts: 389
Hehe... the fifth "boss" fight was really fast... It's defeated before I have even realized what has to be done in that fight. Is there no way to fly even more in that stage? Flying is apparently much faster than walking, and you're walking sometimes. And have you tested different "firing" patterns during flight, something like (^>)(>)(^>)(^>)(>) ? They might reduce fuel consumption while still letting you fly high enough. There is one more little thing which might save one frame each time When you need to change the direction (lets say from left to right), you shouldn't only test (<)(<)(<)(>)(>) or such, but also (<)(<)()(>)(>) or (<)(<)()()(>)(>)... and who knows what effects could be caused by (<^>) or (<v>) or (<^v>). When you're walking, you're most likely required to do such things automatically, but you might easily forget about that during flights... Well, the first time you did a turnaround in flight was in stage 5 anyway. The TAS is looking really good. I hope to see the last stage finished soon.
Posted: 9/7/2011 12:29 AM
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TheHepper
Player (84)
Joined: 7/25/2011
Posts: 58
Well I've finished the run, see link below for the complete movie. It's worth watching if only for 1) the ending music, 2) the look on the bad guy's face when he realizes he went skydiving and forgot his parachute, and 3) a kiss so boring that it needs an exploding Nazi zeppelin in the background to spruce it up. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/785098590/The%20Rocketeerv8.fm2 At this point I think the current movie is pretty well optimized, but as partyboy1a suggested, there may be spots where I can improve by a frame or two. The idea about fuel consumption is really good; if you're flying up then logically you should use more fuel. But this game simply takes away fuel every 8 frames no matter what you do (RAM address 05B0). I'm going to go back and re-check everything, and also see if I can glitch through a wall or take other shortcuts to save more time. But since I pretty much end with the bare minimum fuel/health/ammo after making every enemy possible drop items, it may be that any shortcuts would be offset by time spent collecting items (the current run uses luck manipulation to prevent any item farming). I also pretty much feel that this run wouldn't be publishable as is, since it's 14 mins long and probably wouldn't look very impressive to the viewer that's not familiar with the game. So I want to be sure I take the time to do this game justice. Look forward to an encode in the near future (soon as I can learn how encoding works), but for now, here's The Rocketeer.
Posted: 9/7/2011 1:01 AM
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DarkKobold
Skilled player (1638)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Arcade TASer of 2010 PCE TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 Lucky TAS of 2009 Lucky TAS of 2007
I watched it, and totally think it is submittable. However, I have a few questions/suggestions. First, health management - early in the game, it seems like you could get more health, to help you walk through flames, since jumping clearly takes extra frames (apparently, the Rocketeer's momentum stops mid jump. Newton cries.) Also, perhaps turn off the rocket every 8th frame to conserve fuel? If the rocket only runs for 7 of 8 frames, would that work? Finally, you jump a couple times in the crates/factory level (near the end, 5 maybe) for seemingly no reason. That level seemed a little sloppy, when the rest of the TAS seemed so clean.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Posted: 9/7/2011 3:55 AM
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TheHepper
Player (84)
Joined: 7/25/2011
Posts: 58
Thanks so much for the comment and for taking an interest in the run. 1) I took another look, and I think I can get through that area without jumping. Two extra hearts are necessary to make it through, because going through the flames makes it impossible to avoid the gunner at the bottom of the pit after you get the jetpack. But I just realized that I can get 2 hearts by avoiding the bullet at 3617, and manipulating a heart out of the guy at 4615. Avoiding the bullet, however, desyncs the entire jumping section at 4615 4967, and will carry forward to the rest of the game, so it will take some time to work it out...but I think I can make this work. Thanks! 2) That was a clever idea. You can't turn the rocket back on without landing again, and turning off the rocket immediately reduces speed (there's no way to conserve momentum even with precise jumping). But you can do this duckwalk method to preserve the fuel tank by repeatedly jumping and killing the fuel before it decreases. It doesn't allow for 7 frames every time, the usage pattern for my experiment here was 7-5-1-4-1-3-2, but its definitely faster than walking and doesn't use fuel! So I'll use this in the factory and the woods stage to save time. Also, there should be a way to avoid those 1 frame boosts, since they are actually slower than walking. 3) Correct me if I'm wrong (if there's one thing this game has a lot of its levels with crates), but I think you're referring to frame 34345 where I kill the guy? I had originally jumped twice to shoot him without stopping, but taking a second look I can do one jump, punching him just after I leave that narrow area. What other areas there were sloppy? Sometimes it's hard to look at my own run objectively. Thanks for the help, it will take a little while to implement these changes, but I'll post the result when I get it worked out.
Posted: 9/7/2011 10:31 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
I watched parts of the old run and I liked it. Hope you finish a new version!