Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi.
"I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara
Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Joined: 6/5/2006
Posts: 188
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Oh wow, today's episode was damn amazing. Looking forward to the rest of season 2 even more now.
Even the best player is limited by the speed of his fingers, or his mind's ability to control them. But what happens when speed is not a factor, when theory becomes reality?
What an ugly monster!
Anywho, over a week ago, when this topic was being discussed, I watched all the way up to episode 7, and then stopped.
Here's my question for fans of the series; are male ponies typically depicted in a profoundly negative way throughout MLP?
In Episode 7, there are two male unicorn ponies that are tiny in stature, ugly, with irritating voices, and are all-around morons that almost bring about the destruction of the town.
The only other male pony besides that was Applejack's older brother Macintosh, who, even though he looks normal, came across as dull-witted, inconsiderate, and lacking compassion. Is this a trend throughout the show?
I don't think so. There are not many males in the show at all, especially recurring, so they end up being the conflict of that episode. The diamond dogs and Discord might follow this trend you see.
Keep watching and see what I mean!
Joined: 6/5/2006
Posts: 188
Location: Malmö, Sweden
I wouldn't really say so. There aren't that many male ponies in the series to begin with, but Snips and Snails are clearly on the extreme of things, with Prince Blueblood following pretty closely behind them. Then you have Big Macintosh which you've seen, snobby fashion critic Hoity Toity in Suited for Success(14), a couple of typical high school jock bullies in Sonic Rainboom(16) and Cutie Mark Chronicles(23), Applejack's cousin BraeBurn and Sheriff Silver Star in Over A Barrel(21) and Soarin in Best Night Ever(26).
There is a slight negative trend here as none of these really get presented as being more than asshats and/or kind of slow, but not close to what you might extrapolate from seeing Snips and Snails :P. It does seem to lack a positively depicted male pony though.
I was going to mention male non-ponies not being as bad, but then I realized that all of them except Spike and the Buffaloes are villains.
Even the best player is limited by the speed of his fingers, or his mind's ability to control them. But what happens when speed is not a factor, when theory becomes reality?
Just like real males, they're either dumb and slow, mischievous/egoistic or nice and submissive. ;)
(I don't think I've yet seen the prince stereotype)
Edit: Blueblood >_> Oh whatever
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
I don't see Big Mac as being "dumb" and "slow". Rather I see him as being easy going and full of simple wisdom. "Inconsiderate"? Just because he rightfully tells his sister she's being foolish and later reinforces the point?
Big Mac is one of my favorites for just how chill and relaxed he is. Everyone could stand to learn from him, even myself if this post is any indication!
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
The two guard ponies in episode 22 seem to be rather tight-assed at first, but it gets better.
And Big Mac is just a stereotypical southern-American farmer, not necessarily dumb-witted.
I wouldn't really say so. There aren't that many male ponies in the series to begin with, but Snips and Snails are clearly on the extreme of things, with Prince Blueblood following pretty closely behind them. Then you have Big Macintosh which you've seen, snobby fashion critic Hoity Toity in Suited for Success(14), a couple of typical high school jock bullies in Sonic Rainboom(16) and Cutie Mark Chronicles(23), Applejack's cousin BraeBurn and Sheriff Silver Star in Over A Barrel(21) and Soarin in Best Night Ever(26).
Wow, guess my initial impression was no mistake. Males are depicted in an overwhelmingly negative/stupid manner in this show.
Dragonfangs wrote:
There is a slight negative trend here as none of these really get presented as being more than asshats and/or kind of slow, but not close to what you might extrapolate from seeing Snips and Snails :P. It does seem to lack a positively depicted male pony though.
"Slight" seems like a huge understatement here!
Compare this to the female characters, 90% of whom are good, and the other 10% who typically have redeeming qualities.
Dragonfangs wrote:
I was going to mention male non-ponies not being as bad, but then I realized that all of them except Spike and the Buffaloes are villains.
Haha. Of course!
Ferret Warlord wrote:
I don't see Big Mac as being "dumb" and "slow". Rather I see him as being easy going and full of simple wisdom. "Inconsiderate"? Just because he rightfully tells his sister she's being foolish and later reinforces the point?
Big Mac is one of my favorites for just how chill and relaxed he is. Everyone could stand to learn from him, even myself if this post is any indication!
I completely agree with you based on my own interpretation, but I meant what the show is portraying him to be. For example, to me Fluttershy is an idiotic, inconsistent, and occasionally mean/selfish character, but the show clearly wants us to consider her an exceptionally kind, generous pony.
In the same way, by showing no emotion or concern over his sister's deteriorating physical and mental state, I don't believe they're trying to present Big Macintosh in the best possible light.
After all, the show is all about compassion and caring, and he doesn't display it in that episode. Clearly, it's not as bad as the deformed, ugly, retarded male duo that wake the bear in the cave and almost bring about the destruction of the town, but I don't think he's supposed to be on the same level as the main (female) ponies.
In the same way, by showing no emotion or concern over his sister's deteriorating physical and mental state, I don't believe they're trying to present Big Macintosh in the best possible light.
He may be one of those people that keeps a neutral facial expression unless under high levels of emotion. If he had no concern, the argument would have been over before Applejack took a violent stance.
He also has shown a concerned facial expression when Applejack took a violent stance during the argument. He could have been concerned over starting a fight (he is injured after all) or concerned he is going to lose the argument and Applejack will go through with it. He had the option to forfeit the argument for his own safety but he didn't. He instead continued his argument (with logic) which meant he was more concerned over losing the argument than his own safety.
Also keep in mind that Twilight attempted the exact same argument out of concern later in the episode and failed as badly as Big Mac. Seeing how even Twilight (a close friend) failed to overpower Applejack's pride, there was no point in Big Mac giving it another try. His position after the result of the last argument would have given him a disadvantage anyways.
Joined: 6/5/2006
Posts: 188
Location: Malmö, Sweden
IronSlayer wrote:
Dragonfangs wrote:
I wouldn't really say so. There aren't that many male ponies in the series to begin with, but Snips and Snails are clearly on the extreme of things, with Prince Blueblood following pretty closely behind them. Then you have Big Macintosh which you've seen, snobby fashion critic Hoity Toity in Suited for Success(14), a couple of typical high school jock bullies in Sonic Rainboom(16) and Cutie Mark Chronicles(23), Applejack's cousin BraeBurn and Sheriff Silver Star in Over A Barrel(21) and Soarin in Best Night Ever(26).
Wow, guess my initial impression was no mistake. Males are depicted in an overwhelmingly negative/stupid manner in this show.
Dragonfangs wrote:
There is a slight negative trend here as none of these really get presented as being more than asshats and/or kind of slow, but not close to what you might extrapolate from seeing Snips and Snails :P. It does seem to lack a positively depicted male pony though.
"Slight" seems like a huge understatement here!
Compare this to the female characters, 90% of whom are good, and the other 10% who typically have redeeming qualities.
Erm, no? Snips and Snails are incredible morons yes. And Blueblood is a blight on society but I'd more say he's a hit on royalty than his gender. He's basically only male because Rarity isn't.
The only reason Photo Finish (ep 20) is any better than Hoity Toity is because she speaks in a funny accent and has a silly theme song. The Jocks aren't nearly as bad as Diamond Tiara and Silver Spoon(ep 12). Braeburn doesn't do much besides being excited and trying to defend the rights of his town. The Sheriff pretty much only agrees that Pinkie's song is horrible and then throws apple pies. And the only thing we see Soarin do (with moderate success) is buy and eat an apple pie, he is still a member of the Wonderbolts though, that has to count for something.
The "problem" isn't that they're depicted in a negative manner, it's that they're barely depicted in any manner at all. Fact is: most characters outside of the Mane 6 are somewhat anti-social or bumbling fools, regardless of gender (Trixie, Gilda, Derpy, Bon Bon, the Mayor seems to be trying to run the town on good will alone, Celestia is a damn troll, the CMC pretty much runs around and fails at stuff for like 4 episodes). Not to mention how much the Mane 6 themselves seem to fail at things: Rarity almost kills herself with hubris. Rainbow Dash almost kills Fluttershy through inconsideration. Fluttershy fails utterly at anything not related to diplomacy. Pinke Pie pretty much starts a war. Twilight still has major problems with social conventions. And Applejack... er, does all that stuff in ep 4 I guess.
Also S02E04 was awesome and stuff :D.
Even the best player is limited by the speed of his fingers, or his mind's ability to control them. But what happens when speed is not a factor, when theory becomes reality?
In the same way, by showing no emotion or concern over his sister's deteriorating physical and mental state, I don't believe they're trying to present Big Macintosh in the best possible light.
He may be one of those people that keeps a neutral facial expression unless under high levels of emotion. If he had no concern, the argument would have been over before Applejack took a violent stance.
He also has shown a concerned facial expression when Applejack took a violent stance during the argument. He could have been concerned over starting a fight (he is injured after all) or concerned he is going to lose the argument and Applejack will go through with it. He had the option to forfeit the argument for his own safety but he didn't. He instead continued his argument (with logic) which meant he was more concerned over losing the argument than his own safety.
Also keep in mind that Twilight attempted the exact same argument out of concern later in the episode and failed as badly as Big Mac. Seeing how even Twilight (a close friend) failed to overpower Applejack's pride, there was no point in Big Mac giving it another try. His position after the result of the last argument would have given him a disadvantage anyways.
Well, I certainly don't think Applejack was going to physically attack her older brother! Nothing in the series hints at her being unnecessarily violent towards her friends or family.
The rest of your arguments are reasonable, and I agree with them. But again, I feel that the series' creators saw it a bit differently with the way they were portraying Macintosh.
Maybe I'm stretching a bit, although can you really blame me after the slew of ugly, deformed, idiot, and/or villainous male ponies paraded throughout the series?
Dragonfangs wrote:
Post
You're arguing against something I've never written nor implied. I'm not saying that every single female character in the series is the embodiment of perfection, intelligence, and beauty while every single male character is the opposite of those qualities.
That's too fucking stupid and simplistic even for a little kids' show.
All I've noticed is a very clear difference between how any of the female ponies, villains or not, have been depicted, and the male duo in Episode 7.
Since I haven't (and probably won't) be watching the rest of the episodes, I asked if this was a valid trend for male characters on the show. According to your own response, the answer is "yes".
You can argue about the severity of this and nit-pick heroic flaws of the female protagonists as if it's a counter-balance for male characters that are functionally retarded, incompetent, purposely ugly, evil, and/or three times smaller than the female ponies, but the point remains.
Big Mac isn't retarded, he's just laid back.
The two small unicorns that are idiots are just two (very young) idiots. (Snips and Snails)
I think you're being blinded by the fact that this is a show with (almost) entirely female protagonists because it was written for a female audience. Which means that the other roles are either "supporting character" or "antagonist." So naturally, all of the male characters will fit into one of these two places.
As a counterexample: Spike is male, he's thoughtful, like-able and generally knows what's going on, despite being a baby dragon. He's also a protagonist.
As an example of negatively portrayed female supporting characters and antagonists: Derpy Hooves, Gilda, Trixie, etc.
Examples where supporting male characters have been portrayed in a positive light: Braeburn, Pipsqueak.
Examples where similar characters of differing genders are treated similarly: Hoity Toity (male), and Photo Finish (female)
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
