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Posted: 9/28/2004 7:22 PM
Post subject: Dragon Warrior IV
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Viewer
Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284
In the vein of game suggestions like Final Fantasies 4 and 6 comes this, for the most expansive RPG on the NES. This would be a fun game to watch, although probably very difficult to plan and execute, what with the five seperate chapters and all. Here is a collection of FAQ's on the game--I recommend looking at the Weapon/Armor Recommendations.
Posted: 9/30/2004 3:32 AM
Post subject: Re: Dragon Warrior IV
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DukeNukem007
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 75
Viewer wrote:
In the vein of game suggestions like Final Fantasies 4 and 6 comes this, for the most expansive RPG on the NES. This would be a fun game to watch, although probably very difficult to plan and execute, what with the five seperate chapters and all. Here is a collection of FAQ's on the game--I recommend looking at the Weapon/Armor Recommendations.
The only thing is while I haven't played it much, that game is most likely long beyond the point of really speedrunning. Being the only 8-megabit NES cart, it's as many megabits as FF4, which given it has lower-quality graphics and sounds means it likely has much more map data, and may be longer than FF6. On the other hand, FF3j might be a cool game to speedrun and possibly FF1&2j.
"If all you did this year was sit in your cubicle and masturbate...say you're a self-starter who proactively reengineered your personal inventory with Total Quality, conforming to all EEO/OSHA/ISO9000 requirements."-Scott Adams
Posted: 10/1/2004 7:19 AM
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Blitzwing256
Joined: 6/13/2004
Posts: 37
speed runs might be interesting for the 4 first chapters as each is esentially a stand alone adventure each can be completed fairly quickly. leveling up would be a slowdown, but with well timed critical hits and misses it could be done fairly quickly and interesting. chapter 5 might be overkill, even if you fought king metals for leveling up quickly i'd suggest doing a ragnar run and see how it comes out after a few tries.
Posted: 10/3/2004 5:37 PM
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julianch
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 143
Location: Valencia, Spain
uuuuuuuuuuuh!!!!. this is the worst dragon warrior of all the time. 1, 2 and 3 are wonderful, but this is baaaad ):. belleive me.
I am a Mega Man fan that hates Megaman X8.
Posted: 10/3/2004 9:02 PM
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Viewer
Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284
Er...because? I actually thought the concept of the four chapters, each with their own individual characters and plots was a refreshing change from the previous DW/DQ's, because of how you could see each character making changes in their part of the world, before the final chapter where you reunite with all the characters you got to know previously and learn how the plot tied together. This was also the beginning of a new saga, with the first three games revolving around Edrick/Loto and his legacy, the next three (starting with IV), focused on Zenithian Castle and the Legendary Hero. ...what part was it that you didn't like?
Posted: 10/4/2004 5:10 PM
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Blitzwing256
Joined: 6/13/2004
Posts: 37
I personaly hated 4 for a simple reason. chapter 1-4 were very nice and well done, 4 great independent stories. chapter 1 was kinda a nod to dw1 chapter 2 was a nod to dw2 chapter 3 was a unique experience with being a merchant (even spawned its own series) chapter 4 was a push for dragon warrior storylines chapter 5, was complete and total BS. it starts out great... once you get your first "old" companion is where it totally falls apart.. YOU CAN'T CONTROL ANY OF YOUR CHARECTERS IN BATTLE OTHER THEN THE HERO!!! that completely and totally drained the fun out of the game. this was done in every dragon warrior since, and totally killed the series for me. (to note, there is a gg code to regain control of the other charecters...but I didn't know about that code as a kid..so my feelings on an "unpatched" dw4 are still the same)
Posted: 10/4/2004 8:25 PM
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Viewer
Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284
Yes, you have a definite point there...but if you choose your team effectively, the AI will take their actions, plus the tactics chosen, into consideration when attacking. In addition, the AI responds in real-time as soon as you select your option for the Hero. So, in a sense (according to this FAQ that I'm reading), the proper technique would require considering the likely reactions of your party before you begin to attack, and respond as such.
Posted: 10/5/2004 2:53 AM
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OmegaFlareX
Joined: 7/20/2004
Posts: 108
From a technical standpoint, DQ4 is extremely impressive. I can't imagine that AI of that sort on the NES was easy to program. They even made it so your allies "learn" the most effective methods of attack the more they engage in battle. However, I agree the actual performance of the AI system is complete horseshit compared to later games in the series. Uh, I'd skip this one for a time-attack, guys. It's waaaaay too fucking long, and I bet managing the AI would be frustrating. DQ2 or 3 would make a much better candidate.
Posted: 10/5/2004 7:41 AM
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Viewer
Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284
Yes, it would be long--the longest movie (and effort) undertaken for this site, I have no doubt. I suppose the reason I suggest "far-out" efforts like this is because I believe that while there will always be a sizeable audience to watch the old-school games, such as platformers or shooters, or even some of the more obscure selections, games they may have played in their youth or still do, I believe that a truly unique game, or one that requires such a hurculeran effort, would truly be a one-of-a-kind movie, such as Morimoto's famous efforts (until they were beaten by people on this site.)
Posted: 10/7/2004 3:05 AM
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Paulygon
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 74
Location: California
Yeah, the AI can be kind of frustrating to manipulate, but at least it's possible. The game seems to rely on timer values or "random" numbers chosen very often (at or near the frame level). Rerecord lets you time this value down to as short a time as possible. That makes things behave in some sense similar to DW1, so something like what Genisto did in his run of that game should be possible. In battle, of course, it would be relatively simple up until chapter 5, where AI considerations make it much more complicated.. Making do with a battle round's outcome that ends up being "close enough" to the way you wanted may be a necessity most of the time, unless movie-making time is no object. :) I know I'd like to see a run of this game, but realize I'm probably in the minority. :) Just a sidenote to blitzwing256's post: The ai-less GG code wasn't in the codebook. I created it almost 3 and 1/2 years ago, so it probably didn't exist when you were a kid, anyway. As for the code, the disadvantage is that you don't have access to the wagon during battle, so no swapping party members.
Posted: 4/20/2005 9:14 PM
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mookish
Former player
Joined: 3/17/2005
Posts: 35
Location: Seattle, WA
Any interest in a run on this game? I could use a new project to work on next week...and I used to have a lot of fun playing this game...hell, all the dragon warrior's were fun for me. If so, I'll take a peek at gamefaq's and work on the planning stage sometime this weekend.
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
Posted: 4/20/2005 11:05 PM
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Paulygon
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 74
Location: California
Buried in my last post was my answer (yes :).
Posted: 4/21/2005 12:48 AM
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qbproger
Joined: 12/7/2004
Posts: 69
how long would you expect a run of this to be?
Posted: 4/21/2005 12:53 AM
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mookish
Former player
Joined: 3/17/2005
Posts: 35
Location: Seattle, WA
To be honest, I don't know...I may run the first chapter this weekend as a trial, just to get an idea. I'd say 5 hours or less, but honestly, who knows. It definitely won't be the 1:30 of final fantasy ;)
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
Posted: 4/21/2005 1:35 AM
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TheAxeMan
Ambassador, Experienced player (709)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
This would be very interesting. You'll have to have some sort of buildup in each of the chapters, so it will be neat to see what you do and what level you really need to win some of the game's big battles. In any case, you won't simply be able to walk to the desert and take on metal slimes! There are many more required fights than the original. Also, random party member actions aren't just in chapter 5, some lesser characters in 1-4 are uncontrollable: Healie, Strom, Laurent, Orin. Obviously Taloon is the coolest character. His chapter will probably be most interesting, since many of the goals require getting a certain amount of money. Enemy drops are also messed up in his chapter, you could do well if every Prank Gopher dropped a broadsword. It would be good to see a Sword of Malice in his Lakanaba shop, but probably not feasible. Later on, the randomness becomes an advantage for Taloon, who gains all sorts of powerful abilities. Most of time they're normally useless, but if you could harness them with some manipulation he will become very powerful: stopping enemy spells, confusing them, tripping and having his sword hit an enemy, and of course calling an army of merchants. At low levels, it might be difficult to replace these abilities. I'm assuming near the end you would stick with a hardcore party, so who would it be? Your hero can cast return. The usefulness of magic will be highly dependant on your level, but attack magic will definitely have some use. I wonder if you can manipulate stats on levelup? Alena can become a pretty powerful warrior princess. In chapter 5, I wonder if you can skip getting any of the main characters? Probably not, I think it would stop you later. Let's see, once you have the ship, you can hunt metal babbles in the Royal Crypt, even if you don't have the final key. This game also has item drops from enemies...Hat of Happiness from metal slimes, among others. If you can work in a King Metal kill and get a Metal Babble Helm you will be my hero. Small medals might be annoying to get, but getting just six will net you a Sword of Miracles, which might be worthwhile for Taloon's army of merchants. :) So yeah, if you do this run you'll definitely have my interest.
Posted: 4/21/2005 4:03 AM
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mookish
Former player
Joined: 3/17/2005
Posts: 35
Location: Seattle, WA
Yeah, I seem to remember when I played, I loved a chapter 5 party of Alena, Ragnar, the Hero + one other (sometimes cristo, sometimes doran when I was leveling up). Taloon...god, I remember his chapter all too well...what was it...8 broadswords and 8 suits of half plate? But I always ended up getting the Sword of Malice at his shop, no matter how long it took. I think I'm most curious about how the random factor works. If it's frame based like FF, then this game shouldn't be much more than re-records. The encounter bit is probably the part I'm most interested in. I'm curious to see how I can doctor encounters to pick the fights I want to have. After reading one of the walkthroughs, it seems the only optional part of the game is Seaside...so I think all the characters ARE required. I think this game is going to require much more planning...at least in regards to Chapter 5. But I think the entertainment factor could be much higher, at least in regards to the requisite fights to level up, and perhaps a lucky item drop or five ;)
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
Posted: 4/21/2005 12:06 PM
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Blitzwing256
Joined: 6/13/2004
Posts: 37
if I recall correctly in chapter 5 taloon's abilities are increased via levelup (just like the goofoff in 3) so he wouldn't have access to the more powerfull abilities at low levels. as a side note one of his abilities steals the enemies drop item (doesn' work on king metal though) that could be manipulated to get some of the more powerfull items quickly
Posted: 4/21/2005 1:21 PM
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adelikat
He/Him
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Joined: 11/3/2004
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the random element is frame oriented just as it is in dragon warrior 1. you could get a critical hit every time even from healie or other NPC's with enough patience. I think that with enough luck manipulation then this run would be much less than 5hrs, maybe 2:30 ish. Ive also looked into making a run of this, I got through chapter 1 and had 2-4 planned out. I'd be very interested to see what you come up with.
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Posted: 4/21/2005 3:38 PM
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OmegaFlareX
Joined: 7/20/2004
Posts: 108
adelikat wrote:
the random element is frame oriented just as it is in dragon warrior 1. you could get a critical hit every time even from healie or other NPC's with enough patience.
Yup, the easiest way to do that is to set the message speed to the slowest setting (8). That way, you can manually advance every bit of action text in battle and manipulate who attacks when, who attacks what, what attacks are used, and criticals. And, as an added bonus, manually advancing the text as fast as possible is faster than the fastest message speed. Testing all those frames is a real fucking chore, though, especially for a game this long. The debugger should help with that.
Posted: 4/22/2005 3:07 AM
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Phil
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
I would personally love to see one timeattack from this game.
Posted: 4/22/2005 4:25 AM
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mookish
Former player
Joined: 3/17/2005
Posts: 35
Location: Seattle, WA
Minor hold on the attack until someone figures out why DW4 won't work with FCEU...I really would hate to switch and learn Famtasia as a result of this :(
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
Posted: 4/22/2005 7:21 AM
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Paulygon
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 74
Location: California
Really? It runs normally in mine... maybe a bad ROM or something?
Posted: 4/22/2005 8:17 AM
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mookish
Former player
Joined: 3/17/2005
Posts: 35
Location: Seattle, WA
Odd, I even redownloaded it...and had the same issue. Guess I'll look elsewhere :) *edit* +dumbass here...funny how I can find 2 different DW4's...one being around 500k, and the other is 1025k. The larger one loads just fine in JNES, etc...but won't load in FCEU. I'll start chapter 1 tomorrow.
To be considered a country, you need to have a beer. Sure, it helps to have an airport or nuclear weapons, but at the very least....you need a beer.
Posted: 4/22/2005 1:16 PM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
julianch wrote:
uuuuuuuuuuuh!!!!. this is the worst dragon warrior of all the time. 1, 2 and 3 are wonderful, but this is baaaad ):. belleive me.
I have played DW2, 3 and 4 through, and in my opinion DW4 was the best of all those (DW3 being a good second). So no, don't believe that. Play the game and decide yourself. I loved it. It's incredible how some 3-color sprites can make you sentimental at times... (something the previous two DWs didn't achieve).
Posted: 4/22/2005 4:11 PM
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Phil
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
The correct ROM size is 512k.
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