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Posted: 6/10/2012 5:56 AM
(Edited: 6/10/2012 6:22 AM)
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Spikestuff
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Right I keep forgetting his stance XD I think the perfect combo for characters, for Mokujin are: Yoshimitsu, Eddy, Law, Lei and my "favorite" character Hwoarang.
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Posted: 6/10/2012 5:59 AM
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Cooljay
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Spikestuff wrote:
Right I keep forgetting his stance XD I think the perfect combo for characters for Mokujin is: Yoshimitsu, Eddy, Law, Lei and my "favorite" character Hwoarang.
I'll try implementing those specific characters in. I will keep you updated on a longer WIP next.
Posted: 6/10/2012 6:34 AM
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Warepire
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There is no problem starting from a memory card, the Metal Gear Solid TAS does this. But you will need a movie that will generate said memory card (it does not have to be good at all, this movie only needs to prove to the judges that said saved game can be generated by the game and does not need hacking). And you are not speedrunning the game here, you want to make a playaround. Ignore how long it takes to defeat an opponent, just do it in an entertaining and varied way (try to use each attack only once, this will force you to do many different). You should be fighting with each character once, a few even twice. (There are 20 fights in Arcade mode, and 16 possible characters). Perhaps even choose more battles per round so you get to show off more moves? Sadly this WIP (while a lot better compared to the first one) did not entertain me either, the fights lack a flow and some screwing around (taunting). Really toy with your opponent. Maybe you need to watch some of the Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat TASes on this site to fully grasp what I mean by that.
Posted: 6/10/2012 12:01 PM
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BoursinBurger
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When I think Tekken playaround I think silliness. Instead of brutalizing the opponent and not giving him any opportunities to fight back (which is one-sided and boring) give the opponent a little bit of initiative and then dodge their attacks in creative ways. My character of choice for difficulty, showmanship, uniqueness, and just plain oddball moves would be Dr. B. He's the Norimaro of Tekken. :P
Posted: 6/10/2012 7:46 PM
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Cooljay
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Yes I watched a bit of other playarounds, and it gave me a more clear idea of what to do.
Posted: 6/14/2012 6:17 PM
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Cooljay
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Link to video A new WIP keeping in a more playaround antics style
Posted: 6/14/2012 6:41 PM
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Warepire
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It's a lot better, you have certainly understood the idea of playaround now. I still think that you shall limit yourself to only use one attack once. There is still room for more taunting, also try to juggle them a little. Another thing you can do are "impossible" combos (combos so complex they cannot be done in real time). Also look into glitches (there's a glitched reversal throw that some characters have, Heihachi can use his parry kick even after he's defeated) at so on. Abuse the fact that the game's hitboxes are TERRIBLE (it's possible to grab Law for a throw when he is performing his Frogman move), inflict massive damage by just touching someones toe. Stuff like that. If you have watched the Futurama episode The Farnsworth Parabox you may have noticed the phrase "Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything", create a draw match where you make Mokujin be the same character that you are facing (Ex: Eddy vs Eddy etc) and attack only on the same frame that he does, with the same attack as he uses (make sure both of you take equal amount of damage from the attacks). (These are just ideas, you are not required to follow them, though I think a TAS using these could be very entertaining) Only your imagination can set the boundaries for how silly / insane / impressive a fight can become.
Posted: 6/14/2012 6:48 PM
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Cooljay
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These are pretty good tips overall. I'll be sure to implement them as much as I can into the TAS
Posted: 6/15/2012 1:23 AM
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Spikestuff
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I really like this quote on youtube, because once you win you just continue on.
AKheon wrote:
If you want, also try your hand at matches where you control both players.
And it basically becomes more of a playground tas.
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Posted: 6/15/2012 1:26 AM
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Cooljay
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Spikestuff wrote:
I really like this quote on youtube, because once you win you just continue on.
AKheon wrote:
If you want, also try your hand at matches where you control both players.
And it basically becomes more of a playground tas.
Yes I am planning on working on some of those in. Preferably after the Eddy one, because that's where it seems to dull up. Then furthermore where it seems to lose interest.
Posted: 6/15/2012 12:25 PM
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Spikestuff
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Cooljay wrote:
Yes I am planning on working on some of those in. Preferably after the Eddy one, because that's where it seems to dull up. Then furthermore where it seems to lose interest.
You should have Yoshimitsu as one of the 1v1 fights you do, and then the second time with Yoshimitsu in another 1v1 have him kill himself after a brutal fight against your chosen fighter.
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Posted: 6/20/2012 12:31 PM
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Cooljay
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Link to video Just some more progress with a 2 player fight, and a fight against Law. I also implemented the frogman glitch that Warepire suggested.
Posted: 6/20/2012 12:41 PM
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Spikestuff
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Cooljay wrote:
-video- Just some more progress with a 2 player fight, and a fight against Law. I also implemented the frogman glitch that Warepire suggested.
I was upset about the 2 player bit with Mokujin and Yoshimitsu When you had the life on both half I was waiting for a double knock out to be honest, as with half health (mention before) Yoshimitsu can suicide himself and if close to opponent kill them too. Idea for 2player part: 2nd round make them get both as low as possible make sure Mokujin won the first round suicide Yoshimitsu with his move: > + > (< + <) + O & Square (If I still have a copy I'll show you which one if you're unsure) Obviously this is the suicide move he dashes turns around dies and it actually was for another move too cannot remember what it is called :/.
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Posted: 6/20/2012 12:52 PM
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Cooljay
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I was just unsure about if I should use it right away. After all you said there could be two 1vs1 matches. Still thinking it through would be better now while the action is intense than later.
Posted: 6/20/2012 12:55 PM
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Spikestuff
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The reason I brought up round 2 is you basically (from my point of view) put the controller down for Yoshimitsu, and let hell break loose on him, that's why I'm mentioning it, also what happens if you hit start AFTER a fight not at a start of a fight?
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Posted: 6/20/2012 1:09 PM
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Cooljay
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Spikestuff wrote:
also what happens if you hit start AFTER a fight not at a start of a fight?
It just starts the Stage over
Posted: 6/20/2012 1:56 PM
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Warepire
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Nice implementation of the Frogman glitch, though it's much more fun to grab him when he is on the rebound than before, because this will confuse the game as his sprite will not be facing the right direction, the game has no logic to deal with this, so it will just change his sprites. I noticed this when I managed to do this in real time (only managed to do it once in 8 years and I think I am pretty good at this game) and it was a really nice WTF moment. The 2p fight felt like the characters took turns being a training dummy for each other (this feeling applies to most of the vs CPU fights too), there is no real flow, it just feels like it's one person controlling both characters, but one at the time. A TAS should look like the characters really are out to get each other when they are fighting, and using a lot of different moves. Go through the moves list, find difficult to perform moves, and do some of those, preferably combined with other difficult to perform moves that due to the needed input are close to impossible even for the best human player to do after each other and keeping a flow.
Posted: 6/20/2012 2:04 PM
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KusogeMan
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cooljay the only advice i have that i haven't seen here on this thread is watch lots of combovideos to see everything that's possible in the game,also go to the forum combovidmakers use. Warepire is spot on with his advice also.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 6/25/2012 4:37 PM
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I played this game a lot back in the day and have wanted to watch a good TAS of it for a while, so it's good to hear someone is working on it. After watching your WIPs, I have some suggestions: - First of all, I recommend you using Team Battle mode and controlling both characters in all the fights to avoid stopping some of them as they start for the second player to enter, which I think would break the flow of the run. Also, I'm sure controlling both characters would result in far more interesting matches. - Make juggling the main goal of your run. Juggles have a lot of potential for entertainment and are one of the most impressive things one can do in Tekken games. As I'm sure you have noticed, I'm not the first member to point this out. - Use Dr. Bosconovitch and try to not repeat characters. - Perform a few unblockable attacks along the run (the ones you think are more spectacular). - Include some reversals (I particularly like Anna's reversal of Jin's Lightning Godfist and Jin's reversal of Yoshimitsu's Sword Impale) and chickens. King has pretty impressive reversals overall. - Most players have not seen all the side grapples of the game, so showing some of them would be a good idea. Jin is my favorite character. Here is a video with pretty cool stuff you can do with him. Good luck!
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Posted: 7/3/2012 3:17 AM
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Spikestuff
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I just remembered a game mode on Tekken 3: Tekken Force obviously complete difference. So now the tas can have a freeplay tas and an actual tas. Obviously the faster you do Force the better the key you get
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Posted: 7/3/2012 4:32 AM
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Warepire
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Spikestuff wrote:
I just remembered a game mode on Tekken 3: Tekken Force obviously complete difference. So now the tas can have a freeplay tas and an actual tas. Obviously the faster you do Force the better the key you get
At least in the EU-PAL version of Tekken, you need to beat Tekken Force three times, once for each key, and then another time to fight Doctor B. What times you get have no influence on the keys at all.
Posted: 7/3/2012 4:52 AM
(Edited: 7/3/2012 8:11 AM)
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Spikestuff
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Warepire wrote:
What times you get have no influence on the keys at all.
Must have been a glitch I have gotten on my original copy of the game :/ EDIT: Confirmed my game is so broken, it does speed on keys, I played it 3 times as fast as I could got the same key every-time. Guess I got to stop using my copy of it on my Playstation.
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Posted: 7/3/2012 6:57 AM
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Cooljay
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Tekken Force TAS would still be interesting overall to get the fastest time at least for completion.
Posted: 7/6/2012 7:28 PM
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I kind of liked the force mode when I played it, I remember thinking it'd make a decent speedrun or TAS. I'd be curious to see how some the different characters compare in tactics and time. For play around I'd have to say I need to see more unlikely and ridiculous combos and moves. There's a bunch of tekken3 combo videos around played in real time, need to see some stuff at least as large and entertaining as those.
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Posted: 7/6/2012 7:58 PM
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Cooljay
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
I kind of liked the force mode when I played it, I remember thinking it'd make a decent speedrun or TAS. I'd be curious to see how some the different characters compare in tactics and time. For play around I'd have to say I need to see more unlikely and ridiculous combos and moves. There's a bunch of tekken3 combo videos around played in real time, need to stuff at least as large and entertaining as those.
Yeah i have been copying some of those combos for my new WIP. This game can't get much higher than 10 depending on the moves. I assure you that I haven't forgotten or abandoned this project. EDIT: Guess it wouldn't hurt to do a quick encode even though it's just stage 1
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