Topic by scrimpeh

Posted: 7/12/2012 8:19 AM

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scrimpeh

Editor, Skilled player (1405)

Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2086

Mothrayas wrote:

Part 2: Link to video .FM2 Yeah, Hell Wheel kind of dominates everything.

Why do you take damage on the lasers early on? Does it make Hell Wheel go faster?

Posted: 7/12/2012 8:49 AM

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kuja_killer

Player (48)

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 123
Location: Lake Havasu, Arizona

Concerning critical hits In Bank 21 - 85B77 hex during the hit detection stuff ----------------------------------------- 21:9B67:20 C5 9C JSR $9CC5 - this is the main critical hit checking routine It's a bit complex here which i dont fully understand but you probably will. It will start by writting an FF to [temp], read megaman's HP in $B0, it does a whole bunch of LSR's, then check the general purpose timer at $92 which increases by 1 every single frame. And at the end is this: 21:9CE4:A5 92 LDA $0092 = #$77 21:9CE6:25 00 AND $0000 = #$58 21:9CE8:D0 05 BNE $9CEF To get the status of the Carry flag Then finally.... 21:9B6A:90 41 BCC $9BAD - if carry is clear, no critical, if set, then critical.

Posted: 7/12/2012 9:47 AM

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Noxxa

They/Them

Moderator, Expert player (4141)

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands

scrimpeh wrote:

Why do you take damage on the lasers early on? Does it make Hell Wheel go faster?

You need to jump from higher up to fall faster and avoid taking damage, but that's slower.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 7/18/2012 9:34 PM
(Edited: 7/18/2012 9:44 PM)

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Noxxa

They/Them

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Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands

Next up, Drill Man. On hindsight, I probably should have done Bright Man third. I didn't get the Wire because it takes over 20 seconds to get it (excluding the Crash Man minibossfight), and I don't see it making up for that time anywhere in the Robot Master stages. Link to video .FM2

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 7/18/2012 9:40 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Lordy that fight with Drill Man was short. How would having fought Bright Man third be faster? I didn't see any areas where pausing time would have been worth switching away from Hell Wheel.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 7/18/2012 9:43 PM

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Noxxa

They/Them

Moderator, Expert player (4141)

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands

Derakon wrote:

How would having fought Bright Man third be faster? I didn't see any areas where pausing time would have been worth switching away from Hell Wheel.

Bright Man doesn't really require any tools to go through (except possibly Wire but even the time saved there is a few seconds at best, and getting Wire in Drill's stage costs at least 20 seconds). His weakness is HCR Boomerang (rings), which I have, so I can finish him off quickly. Then I get Rush Cannon, which is all I need for Dive Man's stage (beside Hell Wheel) where I can get the very useful Water Cutter weapon, which also saves time in Drill Man's stage on the miniboss.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 7/18/2012 9:56 PM

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Noxxa

They/Them

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Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands

Oh, and also not to forget, I found out about a small zip in the Wire path of Drill Man's stage, skipping the (second) digger miniboss. Link to video Haven't found use of it outside of this particular area yet, though.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 7/19/2012 6:42 PM

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Noxxa

They/Them

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Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
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Bright Man done. Yay for fitting F-Zero X music. Also yay for Rush Cannon (although it's slower than HCR on Bright Man himself). Judging from a little bit of testing, Wire isn't as useful as I thought it'd be. There aren't many (if any) places where it's useful to save even a slight bit of time. Link to video .fm2

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 7/20/2012 4:17 AM

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woabclf

Active player (295)

Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 154
Location: Taiwan

Mothrayas wrote:

Bright Man done. Yay for fitting F-Zero X music. Also yay for Rush Cannon (although it's slower than HCR on Bright Man himself). Judging from a little bit of testing, Wire isn't as useful as I thought it'd be. There aren't many (if any) places where it's useful to save even a slight bit of time.

Why not take the wire？ dust (three) => drill (wire) => other Climb the ladder quite a waste of time

Posted: 7/20/2012 8:31 AM

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Noxxa

They/Them

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Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
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Because Wire costs over 20 seconds to get, plus the time spent fighting Crash Man. Wire isn't going to make up for 20 seconds of time lost obtaining it. Also, I don't have a fast way for dealing with Dust Man without Rush Cannon or another weakness weapon. (I don't exactly know how fast Hell Wheel is on him, but I'm fairly sure there are faster options out there).

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 7/20/2012 12:47 PM

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GoddessMaria

She/Her

Reviewer, Experienced player (849)

Joined: 5/29/2009
Posts: 514
Location: Hell...

I'm loving the progress so far, Mothrayas! Please keep it going! ^-^

Current projects: failing at life

Posted: 7/22/2012 9:44 PM

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Hotarubi

Experienced player (500)

Joined: 6/9/2010
Posts: 12
Location: Japan

Here's my speedrun, and it is glad if becoming your references or enjoyment. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/164796669/rockman4mi_5216ingame.fm2

Posted: 7/23/2012 4:29 PM

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woabclf

Active player (295)

Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 154
Location: Taiwan

Hotarubi wrote:

Here's my speedrun, and it is glad if becoming your references or enjoyment. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/164796669/rockman4mi_5216ingame.fm2

Great！！ I am most surprised Rush Cannon attack boss (Includ willy)

Posted: 7/24/2012 7:43 AM

Post subject: Minus Infinity

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Catastrophe

Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA

After 3 bosses this hack gets a mixed review from me. + lots of new features + press select to change language on the title screen + added sram + some cute things, like the music in Toad Man's stage + basically, all new boss fights and powers. + apparently lots of crazy awesome stuff later in the game that I haven't reached yet - I strongly disagree with the changes to the invulnerably timers. Mega Man can now get hithithithithit. And Dust Man's invulnerability timer when shot with the Mega Buster feels like it's around 5 seconds. - Some of the layouts just scream "What is the hardest, most inconvenient thing I could do here". The beginning of Toad Man in particular. - The overall difficulty is a bit high. Mega Man 1-6 wasn't this hard. Look at the beginning of Dust Man. They're dropping shit on me, and missiles from Bomb Man are flying around, and the gear riding enemies from Metal Man are running amok. All at once. I started with Dust Man. I don't know if that's wise or not, or if I need to know things about this hack before playing it. I got up to Dust Man and died. Okay. Do it again. I was trying to do it without save states, but the second time around I made a save state right outside his door. (Because f* doing that a third time.) I could not beat Dust Man with 30 reloads. I like his two new gimmicks, though. But the arm cannon only does 1/2 damage and that's rough with his insane invulnerability. And then I discovered the "low hp gimmick". Thus, I quit. I tried a few other stages and I finally succeeded with Ring Man. Since Ring Man is coincidentally Dust Man's weakness, I went back to fight him. My third time around Dust Man's stage wasn't so bad. I beat him with 1 hp left. Then Skull Man. I think that rescuing Beat made Skull Man's stage too easy. I basically just flew over it. But whatever, I'll take a freebie. Speaking of freebie - using Dust Recycler on Skull Man? Defeating Skull Man gave me both Hell Wheel and Rush Cannon, which I tested briefly before quitting. They seem powerful! I have a feeling this game is going to get easier as I pick up more items. So far I've only reloaded a save state at a boss door. This game seems to be fair enough without save states, but it's way harder than the official games. The TAS is going to be amazing! That's for sure!

Posted: 7/24/2012 11:00 AM

Post subject: Re: Minus Infinity

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Noxxa

They/Them

Moderator, Expert player (4141)

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
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Catastrophe wrote:

And Dust Man's invulnerability timer when shot with the Mega Buster feels like it's around 5 seconds.

It's actually 128 frames (a bit over 2 seconds) for all bosses.

Catastrophe wrote:

I started with Dust Man. [...] I tried a few other stages and I finally succeeded with Ring Man.

Yeah, not a good idea. Dust Man is one of the hardest stages in my opinion. I think Ring Man's the best choice to do first, him being weak to the buster and all.

Catastrophe wrote:

Since Ring Man is coincidentally Dust Man's weakness, I went back to fight him.

Actually, the weakness order has changed. Ring Man is Bright Man's weakness. Dust Man is weak to Toad Man's weapon. Then again,some weapons are very effective to many bosses.

Catastrophe wrote:

I have a feeling this game is going to get easier as I pick up more items.

That's definitely true. When you get a few weapons, the stages suddenly become much easier.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 7/25/2012 5:07 PM

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Catastrophe

Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Yeah, it did get easier as I went along. I've completed the game now. Even though some of the rooms are unreasonably hard I still recommend this hack. However, I'm not sure if my issue is really with the layouts. Now that I've spent more time with it, I just hate the how Rockman's invincibility timer was reduced. I feel like I'm getting "comboed" by some of the enemies. Some of the hard rooms might be easier otherwise. Regardless, I definitely recommend playing this hack because of all the crazy things that were added to it. It's a wonderful feat of engineering. I don't know how he added sram, 8-way scrolling, autoscrolling, and Pharaoh Man's multi-room fight into the MM4 engine. Wily's Labyrinth was impressive too. And the game is big. There are lots of levels, new bosses, and more weapons than can fit in the menu. It's as complete as Super Demo World. The patch is bigger than the rom. Things you need to know about this hack before playing it (unassisted): - Ring power and Dive power are both strong, 8-way, and use little ammo. In other words, Metal Blades. It should replace your default weapon. - Ring Man and Dive Man are also the easiest robot masters to beat first. - The old boss "order" has changed. There really isn't a boss order anymore. The only true weaknesses in the game seem to be Dust vs Skull, and Bright vs Bright. And Rush Cannon vs everything. :) (Which I did not use.) - Buttons A and B on controller 2 will quick-cycle your weapons. If you're playing with a gamepad you're supposed to map those to the shoulders.

Posted: 8/4/2012 9:20 PM

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Noxxa

They/Them

Moderator, Expert player (4141)

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands

The next boss is done, Dive Man: Link to video .FM2 Kind of the usual stuff; mostly Hell Wheeling everywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 8/4/2012 10:53 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Oh dear, Rush Cannon made that boss fight a bit of a joke. Oh well. I guess that means the refights will be more interesting since they won't be retreading earlier ground. Keep it up!

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 8/5/2012 4:11 AM

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woabclf

Active player (295)

Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 154
Location: Taiwan

Derakon wrote:

Oh dear, Rush Cannon made that boss fight a bit of a joke. Oh well. I guess that means the refights will be more interesting since they won't be retreading earlier ground. Keep it up!

By Hotarubi's movie All boss can use the Rush Cannon

Hotarubi wrote:

Here's my speedrun, and it is glad if becoming your references or enjoyment. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/164796669/rockman4mi_5216ingame.fm2

Mothrayas wrote:

I did not get Balloon, for the same reason I didn't get Wire. I just don't see it saving anywhere near enough time spent for collecting it.

I consider that the wire still need to Wire to facilitate vertical movement Move faster and save energy Climb a ladder to the speed is slower than walking Balloon in the Cossack stage 1 (Get convenient)

Posted: 8/5/2012 11:08 PM

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Noxxa

They/Them

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Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands

woabclf wrote:

I consider that the wire still need to Wire to facilitate vertical movement Move faster and save energy Climb a ladder to the speed is slower than walking

Sure, the Wire is faster for movement (on a few stages), but I still do not see it making up anywhere near the 1200-1500 frames I need to waste actually getting it first. It's only going to save a few seconds at best, in a couple of stages. (Not all of them, as not all stages have ladders where it can be done) Over the course of the rest of the Robot Master stages, I can see it saving five or maybe ten seconds, if it happens to be significantly faster than regular stair climbing. But I doubt very much that it would save 20 seconds, making up for the time spent collecting it.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 1/1/2013 2:23 PM

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kuja_killer

Player (48)

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 123
Location: Lake Havasu, Arizona

Is this still being worked on?? or kinda quit ?? Just wondered if i may ask.

Posted: 1/1/2013 3:20 PM

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Noxxa

They/Them

Moderator, Expert player (4141)

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands

I haven't had much time for it lately; I've been busy with some other TAS projects (which are finished now) as well as real life matters leaving me with not a lot of time to TAS. I'm planning to get back to this run, but I can't say exactly when. Hopefully in the near future.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 1/1/2013 5:03 PM

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mtvf1

Skilled player (1150)

Joined: 5/11/2011
Posts: 425
Location: China

Mothrayas, In skullman's stage, you can take damge and dash on the bone. But I don't know the movie can be edited or not.

Posted: 1/1/2013 6:58 PM

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Noxxa

They/Them

Moderator, Expert player (4141)

Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands

I suppose it could save a bit of time, but I'm not going to fix it. It's likely it will cause desyncs later on, and it's only a glorified testrun anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.

Posted: 1/3/2013 9:12 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1237)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11274
Location: RU

Skullman stage has all those moving platforms and waiting periods derailing the desired pace. Hotarubi gets a baloon to fly right through all these. There's also a bird to cross gaps. Did you test getting a baloon or a bird first, probably baloon stage can be better passed with sliding than skullman one. Overall, the hack is just a bomb, it's going to be a tas of the year when finished.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.