Post subject: Improving River City Ransom
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Joined: 3/13/2004
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Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Hey all, was just watching some vids tonight to bide time as the election crawls on... I noticed that Sleepz's River City Ransom is (unless I'm forgetting something) the only published movie that violates this site's rule of playing on the hardest difficulty. A game this great, fun, and short deserves a new movie that meets this requirement IMO. With that in mind, I've been thinking of a couple possible improvements. Here are some of these brain droppings... -Better randomization. Make it so enemies never block (they do so quite a bit in the current movie) and appear in convenient places (generally not an issue, but Sleepz has seriously bad luck with this in the warehouse). These would be pretty big if they were possible. Also, when entering boss rooms, make it so that you fight the most profitable gangs possible in each one. It would be pretty interesting to find out which ones these would be...I know that you can fight the Squids as early as Sticksville, FWIW. - Buy stuff. Sleepz waits to collect bosses' money sometimes, at the expense of exiting the rooms as fast as possible, but he never buys anything! The rapid-fire weapon-swinging tech may be a worthwhile purchase, as may a pair of boots or something else that increases speed. - Fighting. Sleepz misses one kick in the final battle, an obvious mistake. But beyond that, I wonder if all those times he picks up an enemy only to have them jump away are really necessary. It may be possible to use the trashcan better than him, as well. That's about it for now, just throwing these out. -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
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And a 2 player version evidently.
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Joined: 6/27/2004
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Location: New York
Just be careful- remember that the appeal of this one isn't the speed. For instance, personally I think the enemies sometimes blocking isn't bad. It's like they block, then you crush them with an even stronger attack. Yeah, I didn't like that he waited for money and never bought anything. But I don't think either of the double attacks would really look as good. In the current video, he's punching as fast as he can by doing something not humanly possible, rather than letting the game do it for him. I haven't watched the video closely but I didn't watch the missed kick. This would look pretty crappy. I'm not so sure about picking the enemy up to have them jump off, it could be along the same lines as the blocking attacks concept. Trashcan use is really what makes the video, in my opinion. So tread lightly. A 2 player run would be just amazing, I hadn't even thought of that. That'll go right into my personal page.
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Hmm, well, I'm just a fan of pure speed and find anything that accomplishes this entertaining. But I understand where one would differ. What I was thinking of with the trashcan was to get it to hit an enemy, then hit him again as it lands and rolls. Sleepz does this sometimes, but it may be possible to get even more. One of the coolest moves in the video IMO, it would be neat to see it as much as possible in my view. Understood about the rapid-fire techs. It still may look cool if you could get something that noticeably increases your speed, or maybe even one of the other special techs (i.e. Acro Circus). Again, just tossing out ideas here. -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284
Here are some ideas to make the run more impressive: Have one player pick up a boss and the other one holding a weapon, and working it so the weapon is thrown and hits right as the boss is jumping out of the first player's grasp (an Acro Circus jump would work here, as well). A more elaborate version of the trashcan trick: Both players with one standing on either side of a boss. First player throws the weapon over the boss's head, stuns him with an attack, then second player kicks the weapon into the boss. Another version: First player picks up an overhead weapon (trashcan, crate, tire) and second player jumps on top. First player throws the weapon, second player jumps off and attacks right after the weapon hits. Buy Fatal Steps, use as a finishing move. After finishing a boss, get next to each other and do the fist punching motion.
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 11
Personally, this was one of my favorite speedruns. It goes very, very fast, but doesn't sacrifice variety of attacks. It's about entertainment, not just being fast - after all, we're not setting any records here. The sheer style with which he flows through each enemy is really impressive to watch - buying the Grand Slam and just chain-whipping each enemy to death would be very, very dull, even though it would undoubtedly be faster. Just my 2 cents.
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Blechy wrote:
Yeah, I didn't like that he waited for money and never bought anything.
The waits were necessary - the game doesn't allow to continue before the coins are gone.
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 89
I'd really hate to bump a topic this old, but... After playing through a couple times, here's what I ended up getting. It's not wonderful, I miss several hits, and I'm forced to use a chain for about half the game, but maybe this can give someone the inspiration to make something submit-worthy. This plays on the hard difficulty, so bosses take a little bit longer. Edit: Check bobwhoops's post. Be happy.
SWOOOOOOOM
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Joined: 12/21/2004
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I get a Forbidden error: You do not have permission to access http://zgwolufsky.50megs.com/RiverCityRansom.fcm Data files must be stored on the same site they are linked from. Thank you for using 50megs (edit: not anymore)
Joined: 7/14/2004
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Huh. I'll look for a different place to upload it.
SWOOOOOOOM
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Woo for crappy free hosts. GSGold's run: http://www.geocities.com/highsummonerbob/RiverCityRansom.zip If you can't click it, copy and paste it.
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I just watched this new one... It wasn't bad, definitely had its moments, but it just wasn't as fast-paced or interesting as the one that's currently up, and seemed to spend a lot more time waiting around. I don't know how much of that is due to the difference between easy and hard mode, but personally I would rather have the movie be on an easier mode if it makes for a more entertaining run. (I think the hardest-mode "rule" is just a guideline anyway.) I'd love to see a 2P run of this game done in a similar style to the first. I think the part of the run I find most boring/repetitive (for all runs I've seen of this game) is the fight with the double dragon guys, but 2P would probably help that along with everything else.
Joined: 7/14/2004
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Any moments of waiting around is just the result of me being an idiot and unable to timeattack efficiently. But yeah, hard made seems to make the bosses take too long to keep everything going smoothly, and especially the enemies before them, I keep feeling like I'm supposted to be going faster against them. A 2P run would be really really sweet, but unless someone is somehow willing to control both, the only people I could think of that are able to do such a thing is Phil and Genisto.
SWOOOOOOOM
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Joined: 10/29/2004
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Recently I just found the interesting game. That's really Funny and I try it to the first boss. http://fast.filespace.org/Jecy/DowntownNekketsuMonogatari.zip I use the japan ver. so you need to find it out. I want to know that if anyone was working on it, Phil or someone else. If there is someone, then I will expect your run (^,^). And don't be anxious, I won't keep going.
Mr. and Mrs. Rerecord: Why do we fall ? So that we might better learn to pick ourselves up.
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Joined: 3/11/2004
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I read through the posts, and here are my thoughts regarding the points brought up (might be long): -Advanced Difficulty I didn’t choose Novice with the intention of making a faster run. Time wasn’t the major concern, although Novice difficulty does speed things up. This game could actually be finished much faster through repetitive A-button trashcan attacking, but who would want to watch that? The reasons why this was played on Novice was to keep a constant flow through the entire run and allow more flexibility for the fights. Now I watched GSGold’s run; pretty good attempt at Advanced mode btw. You can see that on hard difficulty, his attacks are being blocked by regular enemies, and bosses are blocking even more. Only natural since their stats are double from that of Novice. I just don’t see the point in wanting to do this run on Advanced. It will be the same run, with longer, more repetitive fights due to less flexibility from the bosses. -Collecting coins The only reason for collecting the coins is because the boss doesn’t show up until all coins are off the screen. Also, you must wait for the boss’s coin to appear after beating him, or else you can’t proceed to the next boss. -Buying Stuff Why don’t I buy stuff? 1. Main reason is time and flow. If you are trying to keep a good flow(which is my main goal for the run), you have to go through the whole game without slowing down or stopping. If you are trying to finish as fast as possible, buying anything wastes more time than it could potentially save. Why? If you’re beating only the necessary enemies and bosses, you won’t have the money or even the chance to buy skills until you reach Flatiron’s Mall, which is already more than half-way through the run (unless you backtrack to Grotto, which is an even bigger waste of time). Then you have to go through the store screen to buy, leave, then 2 menu screens to activate your skill. Now you have a new problem: 2. Repetitiveness/Less variety. You will only be able to afford 1 skill, and you will probably be using nothing but that skill for the rest of the run (that’s the point in buying it, right?). Let’s say you bought Grand Slam. There would be no point in using kicks or punches anymore, since you can kill faster with your new skill. Any variety you try to add would make your purchase even more wasteful. 3. Any Boots or Power-ups are pointless. Trashcan, that’s why. -Better Randomization Blocking: The only time I recall having a problem with enemy blocking is during the Double Dragon fight, and I doubt you can get through this fight without having them block you. You’re probably thinking just re-record until you hit them. Consider this; they are the fastest bosses in the game, and there are 2 of them. If you hit one of them, the other may block you. Also, you must keep up a constant attack to hold them back or else they’ll get in and hit you. This part can definitely be improved mind you, but you will still have to put up with blocking. Making enemies appear in convenient places: Doesn’t really matter most of the time. Regarding the warehouse, whatever side you defeat the current enemies in, the next set of enemies will appear on the opposite side, so you have to run back and forth to beat them. -Fighting This is what I put the most thought into. I try to avoid repetitiveness at all cost. As you can see, even though I pretty much use the same moves over and over again, yet each boss battle is done differently. If you are wondering about picking up the enemy and letting him jump away, it is intentional. When they jump, you can use a variety of attacks to hit them in mid-air. In fact, for bosses Thor and Slick, the finishing move requires them to jump out of my hold. It looks so much better in slow mo though. Regarding the last boss fight; it’s the only fight where I miss attacks. Unlike all the previous fights where I fly through with ease, I wanted this fight to be a bit messy and look more like a struggle. Sort of like the beat down Sonny gave in the Godfather. So lots of kicking and throwing the trashcan and against the wall. A good chunk of this part was me just playing in slow mo btw. I don’t really care if people think it’s flawed or not done as fast as possible, it’s just how I decided to do it. I think that's everything. btw, Josh, if you like pure speed, check out the Sonic runs if you haven't already. Amazing.
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 89
I actually have had this finished for a while but I decided to post it for no reason. Pray this link works: Nevermind, I decided to submit it. It's an Advance mode run again, but it's a lot faster. Also it's worth noting that I don't use a garbage can. I use boxes and wheels instead, but a box is pretty much the exact same thing and a wheel's only differences is that it rolls and you can't kick it. (I think.)
SWOOOOOOOM
nesrocks
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I tried a 2 player version of this, on advanced mode. stopped at 2:49 in the game because i have no more free time, so here is the WIP for anyone that wants to do anything with it: http://www.angelfire.com/ex/uobt/rcr-foda--2p-v5.zip But i don't agree with picking advanced mode. The bosses take too long to die, so you run out of interesting moves pretty quickly and it gets boring. I'd do 2 players - beginner mode for entertainment's sake. I found out that you don't have to beat the first boss (forgot his name). I don't know how this was missed by anyone who made the movie, but this alone can be used to cut a lot of time. I tried to skip other bosses as well, but none of them seemed possible (before being able to enter the school, i didnt try bosses after that). Good luck
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FODA wrote:
I tried a 2 player version of this, on advanced mode.
Hmm, looks like it's going in slow-motion. I guess having 2 players adds a lot of lag in this game, at least in FCEU. So far this is definitely not more entertaining...
nesrocks
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yea it does have a lot of lag. i dont know, i think its more entertaining than 1p, but either way, that bug i found must work on 1p too.
Joined: 9/16/2005
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Location: KY
I liked the tag team work on rocko. :) But 2 players was not meant for a game that lags this much.
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
Technos games are too awesome for a straight speed run. I made a movie (on advanced, I think) of a brawl with the idiot twins. I bring a garbage can. Insanity ensues. HAHAHAH!! I'm tempted to try running this with 2 players, despite the lag problem, but the emulator itself isn't quite friendly enough for my liking, so I'd want to fix a few things before getting started. Mind you, I've tried and failed at making the snes9x and fba sources compile. Third time's lucky? :D
Wren
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Now that was entertaining. ^_^ It certainly helped that I had "Disgaea: Hour of Darkness - Do Your Best, Girl" playing at the time too. Good stuff.
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Joined: 11/3/2004
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That was a thing of beauty. I would love to see a whole playthrough like that, but I'm probably in the minority. ^_^ Failing that, a two-player TAS would be great. How bad is the lag on it?
JXQ
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I personally think that a run fooling around like that would be much more fun to watch than what has already been done. (I never understood how that run got a star)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
nesrocks
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loved it. the acting was very appropriate, you are good at puppetry controlling those characters to act like a movie, i found it entertaing. just make sure to not make the goal "finish as fast as possible" but make it "finish the game in an entertaining way"