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Posted: 4/15/2007 10:33 PM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
The thought did occur to me that longer auto-center would be slower than how fast you can climb up, but I thought it would still be faster. Did you do any testing? If climbing is faster then you should climb up to almost the middle of the screen so that there is no auto-center. Also, you can scroll the screen up a unit three times on the way to the door. Once when you roll into a ball and fall off the first platform, then again on the next platform, then you can avoid getting hit in the air by that thing. Then after you shot the door open do a quick morph and move right. I mentioned the last one to Zoitzite and he confirmed it was faster than having the screen scroll an extra unit, but for his case, the norfair right column, he was away from the door quite a bit when he shot it open. Also, for the last two units you climb I think you should do the up+jump double unit climb trick and then move out of the wall at the same time. If your not going to redo to include this that's too bad, I would just because I don't think the kraid part will take you that long to redo, you might even be able to hex edit it. Wouldn't a couple hours be worth it to have run completely optimized? I hate it when runs get posted that miss a few known optimizations but they stay around for long time. Next time anyone wants to do a new metriod speedrun please PM me before you get too far ahead of yourself.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/15/2007 10:54 PM
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hero_of_the_day
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Settle down spider-waffle. If you can do the section faster than me, then post a short demo of it. I really don't care if the run be improved by a few frames anyway, since I sure new developments will occur after I am finished. My hope is that the new run will inspire others to find new applications of the reverse door trick.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 4/15/2007 11:01 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Waffle: Just because someone doesn't TAS the way that you do (or, you would if you ever did a TAS), doesn't mean you should covertly insult them. I can't speak for hero (edit: who snuck in a post before me), but I sure as hell wouldn't like being treated like a pawn for you to try and direct. I suggest that you do a TAS yourself if you are unsatisfied with current results instead of complaining about the actions of others.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 4/15/2007 11:46 PM
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laughing_gas
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
spider, I noticed your HL run could've saved a couple seconds near the beginning, and I really hate it when runs get posted that miss a few known optimizations but they stay around for long time
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 4/16/2007 12:30 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Can you post your replay? I'll make a save state while in the wall and try to get into the elevator room faster. Also, how do you upload to this site's replay FTP? I have a replay of a half finished run of Zoizite's which I helped with some new minor optimization techniques, which might be helpful for this run. Sorry if I sound directing, I'm just saying what I think, he doesn't have to redo it to please me if doesn't want to obviously. The difference between my HL run and the route to Kraid is that one took a day or two; my run took over 3 years. If I had known of some optimazation I didn't include after a couple weeks worth of work I would have redone that much to save .5 seconds.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/16/2007 12:39 AM
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hero_of_the_day
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
The run is almost done, so I won't be posting it in the forum. It should be on the workbench sometime soon. Feel free to rip it apart once it has been submitted. I am sure you will find lots of little things that a non-expert such as myself has overlooked. If you manage to find enough mistakes, I may be persuaded to make another version sometime in the recent future. As it stands right now, I am 32 seconds ahead of zoizite's run. An additional 5-8 seconds will be saved using the faster technique in the statue room.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 4/16/2007 2:42 AM
(Edited: 4/16/2007 3:14 AM)
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
When it's on the work bench be sure to let us know. I've found a new technique for scrolling the screen down and I'm almost sure it's going to save a lot of time. This is for the second door trick in Kraid's where your trying to scroll screen down ASAP. Go into the door and off the top of the screen, as soon as you become invisible you are still doing collision detection with the screen your on, but just above it, go up 1 more unit and you are doing detection with the screen below. It’s during this key phase at exactly 1 unit off the screen that you can do the trick. Fall out of the wall and the screen will scroll down with your fall, you’ll hit the ground and the screen will be scrolled down halfway to the room below. If you jump a fall again it will keep scrolling down all the way until the room below is centered. So I recommend you jump out of the wall if possible or jump off the two block platform above the door, then shoot the door open. While waiting on the door jump again to scroll down as much as possible and then get in the door at the top just as it closes. Then down up 15-13 times and you’ll appear at the bottom of the screen. From here proceed as normal.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/16/2007 3:12 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
There’s an application of the trick above which can be applied to the top left column of norfair to get into the middle left column or norfair, this I already knew about, and it will say lots of time on a 100% run. I just found another application to this trick, which could save much more time on a 100% run. You can go from the ice beam column in brinstar straight to the elevator to norfair, and very quickly I might add as the screen can just fall down with you very fast. You have to do some moving in an unknown area while invisible to get the screen to go down 1 more unit. Some things you should know about this stuff. If you make the screen scroll down exactly to the row below and then go through the door, it will put into that screen no mater what it is. If you scroll 1 unit less it puts you back through the row you started in. One unit more and it’s to the row two rows below where you started in. I’ll be looking for more applications to all these known glitches, I courage others to do the same.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/16/2007 3:26 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Just found another application at the bottom of the main kraid column. Scroll the screen down the row below with the trick I described earlier. Note, since the ground is level with the bottom of the door you must morph while on the ground to get the screen down enough. Now go through the door and you’ll be in the row below, but invisible. You can navigate to the door to the right. This might be faster I’m not sure, but yet another way to get to Kraid early. *EDIT* it seems if you do get back onto the screen it will have the bug where the rows and columns are switched. So getting to kraid might be a problem with this.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/16/2007 3:58 AM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Spider-Waffle wrote:
When it's on the work bench be sure to let us know.
you can keep an eye on the workbench yourself, it'll be easily spot able. Also, the wiki recent changes keeps track of new submissions. And try to avoid multiple posting, editing the content of those 3 pages into your latest post should suffice.
☣ Homepage ☣ Retired
Posted: 4/16/2007 11:09 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Sorry you don't like muti-posts, but I actually prefer them. When the posts are at different times and you’re talking about different things I think it's more appropriate to separate with multiple posts. It seems like a clearer format to me, and lets me read my past content more clearly. Also if someone reads the first post, then I edit it they usually won't know that I added a whole new section (most people aren't reading irc 24/7) unless they specifically go back and read my post again which might be way into the history of posts by now, and they might never see it. I can't find anything wrong with multiple posts either, I don't know why some people don't like them.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/17/2007 4:06 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
I was exploring this secret area/ strange new world under the big gold column of brinstar. This world was massive, much bigger than any I’ve seen before. It was then that a theory about the secret worlds dawned on me. Ever notice how every secrete world is in an area where there isn’t any place that there could be other rooms from that area? Such as this area under the gold column; brinstar has nothing under there normally, or the one at the top of Ridley’s lair and so on. Then have you ever that map of all the areas, brinstar, norfair, kraid’s, ridley’s, and tourian, together? They all fit neatly into a large square with no overlap. My theory is that game has this large map of all the rooms of all the areas, like some sort of an array or matrix or whatever. Each room will have a certain value. Accept the rooms from different areas will share the same set of values. Also, when you change areas it changes the set of values to be assigned to a new set of rooms that correspond with that area. So I believe that large secret area I found under the gold column was a representation of norfair, but it was using the room set for brinstar because I never changed areas out of brinstar with the elevator. The area above ridley’s would be norfair, and lots of the rooms may be blank because the room set for ridley’s is much smaller than the room set for norfair. The one above Kraid’s would be brinstar and so on. What does everyone think about this theory? Are there any problems with it? If this is basically how it works is there anyway we can use this to our advantage?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/17/2007 5:14 AM
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CtrlAltDestroy
Active player (328)
Joined: 2/23/2005
Posts: 786
http://mdb.classicgaming.gamespy.com/m1/lvldata.htm
Posted: 4/17/2007 6:10 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Ah hah, so it seems to work exactly as I thought. The rooms in different areas will have the same number but it makes a different room depending on which area you are in. I've checked with some of the room numbers in the secret areas and they correspond with the same number of the actual room I saw, but just for the different area.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/17/2007 9:52 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Does anyone know an invincibility cheat? I keep getting hit by stuff while off the screen.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/17/2007 10:42 AM
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P.JBoy
Any
Editor
Joined: 3/25/2006
Posts: 850
Location: stuck in Pandora's box HELLPP!!!
Name: Invincibility Address: 0070 Value: 001
Posted: 4/17/2007 1:38 PM
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CtrlAltDestroy
Active player (328)
Joined: 2/23/2005
Posts: 786
I just use the Game Genie code ALLGKP, which gives you all the narpassword cheats including infinite missiles and energy.
Posted: 4/19/2007 9:50 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Thanks guys, I'll be doing some exploring tomorow with this.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/22/2007 6:28 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Well I've finally found something I've been looking for. That is an item, working elevator or boss in one of the glitched out areas. I found another Ridley above the elevator at the start of Ridley's lair. This room is a number 12 the same number as the normal Ridley room. I don’t know of a quick way to get there but there’s another number 12 which might be easy and faster than getting to Ridley. I’m going to see if you can kill Ridley more than once also. It seems Ridley can only be killed once.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 4/23/2007 7:32 PM
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CtrlAltDestroy
Active player (328)
Joined: 2/23/2005
Posts: 786
Any progress on this? I'm holding my breath for it.
Posted: 4/23/2007 7:39 PM
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hero_of_the_day
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Yeah, it is almost done. Just got to kill the zebetites and mother brain. I have been swamped with work lately, so I haven't been able to spend much time on this.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 4/23/2007 8:11 PM
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AngerFist
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
First edition TAS of 2015 Innovative TAS of 2007
hero of the day wrote:
Yeah, it is almost done. Just got to kill the zebetites and mother brain. I have been swamped with work lately, so I haven't been able to spend much time on this.
Did you restart or is it the previous version you worked on?
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Posted: 4/23/2007 8:20 PM
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hero_of_the_day
Player (89)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Same one. I don't have any concrete evidence that it is improvable, so I didn't restart it. I have been getting horrible luck with enemy spawns, so it has consumed many hours and rerecords trying to get them correct. If my run is going to be improved, it will only happen if someone can get lucky with good enemy placement.
They're off to find the hero of the day...
Posted: 4/23/2007 8:43 PM
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mmbossman
Experienced player (829)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
GBx TAS of 2008
I haven't played this Metroid before, but I've watched all the already published movies and I have to say I'm kinda excited to see the differences. Good luck with being swamped with work, and with getting this done soon.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Posted: 5/2/2007 1:42 AM
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CtrlAltDestroy
Active player (328)
Joined: 2/23/2005
Posts: 786
Here's proof that we haven't seen the end of Metroid glitching yet... http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/5380/effing_bizarre.fcm
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