1 2 3 4
Posted: 11/23/2004 8:09 PM
(Edited: 11/23/2004 10:45 PM)
Post subject: Ending a movie early
Quote
Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
I think it would be better to have this discussion in it own thread rather than in the Workbench. Pros Creative Makes for a shorter time Cons Does not give a true representation of when the player actually beats the game. As ziplock puts it, they can still affect the outcome when they put the controller down. Other If somebody playing it on a console put down the controller mid-jump, they would still reach the axe as well. Does not violate any current rules Used in Arkanoid Castlevania 3 Monopoly Super Mario Bros Could be used in Aladdin Castlevania 1(At Phil's request) Super Castlevania Tetris (The bottom two lists are just off the top of my head) Thoughts?
Posted: 11/23/2004 8:12 PM
Quote
Bob_Whoops
Former player
Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Well, first of all, does anyone disagree with the ending to the monolpoly movie? It ends early, but you can't stop it or slow it down no matter what you press (reset and power off still stop it, but those don't really count)
Posted: 11/23/2004 8:15 PM
Quote
Phil
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Personally, I am against that rule. I remember when I started doing timeattacks, the rule was to stop your movie at your last input. Spectators are not actors. I don't understand those maniacs that presses buttons when watching a movie. Btw, Castlevania 1 should be putted in the "Could be used in" section.
Posted: 11/23/2004 8:16 PM
Quote
Locke
Joined: 3/29/2004
Posts: 224
I believe the movie is ended early on that game where you have a paddle on the bottom of the screen and you knock out blocks on the top area. (sorry, can't remember the name, but hopefully the description works.)
Posted: 11/23/2004 8:30 PM
Quote
Highness
Player (70)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
I think it's fully legit to stop the movie as you won't be doing any more inputs. Perhaps we should have a poll about this?
Posted: 11/23/2004 8:32 PM
Quote
Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
People are less likely to explain their logic in thinking so if they can state their opinion in the form of a simple "Yes" or "No".
Posted: 11/23/2004 8:37 PM
Quote
TNSe
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
So what you are saying, is that the length of the movie should be entirely based on the number of frames saved in your movie file.
Posted: 11/23/2004 8:45 PM
Quote
Mazzic
Joined: 8/31/2004
Posts: 298
Location: Falun, Sweden
Then the SMB movie could be done shorter if you jump before the axe and on the peek if your jump you end it. You probably would reach the axe later due to the lost in speed when you release the A button (or is it B?). Anyway, my opinion is that movies should end when all the goals of a movie is reached, not sooner or later. Edit: Hadn't read the Workbench forum when I wrote this :P but I still claim that a movie should end when all the goals are achived.
Bein' away for like five years, and not a single new post in the ZSNES forum... :'-(
Posted: 11/23/2004 9:30 PM
Quote
kopernical
Former player
Joined: 3/24/2004
Posts: 132
Location: Indiana
I was thinking about making a similar topic because that Monopoly movie really bugged me. I was shocked when I saw a submission that was 20 seconds faster than the previous, then when I watched it it turns out it was only a couple seconds faster but he just ended the recording sooner. IMO, it's just a cheap way to shorten the length of a movie. These movies are supposed to be "fastest completion", not "fastest to reach a point where user input is no longer needed to complete the game."
Posted: 11/23/2004 9:33 PM
Quote
Phil
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Well then, opinions are splitted and I think a poll is needed.
Posted: 11/23/2004 9:35 PM
Quote
TNSe
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
I share that view kopernical. Unfortunately I'm not consistant in that view. Rocket Knight Adventures by dan_ ends when the outcome of the game can no longer be altered, and in that case it's just sweet. My point is if we should base the comparison on the actual LENGTH of the movie file (# of frames of input), or on some other measurable thing. (Hitting hammer in SMB, bankrupting all other in monopoly, final boss STARTING to die? Finished dead? credits screens coming up?) As you see, the EASIEST way is to go by the # of frames of input in movie file... This could cause some weirdass situations where a player actually uses longer time to get to credits or something... Bleh. Usage of common sense is not an option atleast, as common sense is very uncommon.
Posted: 11/23/2004 9:37 PM
Quote
Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I think this is a good thing, since I believe it's a good rule to end a movie at the EXACT FRAME that you no longer need to press ANY button to finish the game. It should be done for either every movie or no movie at all, though, for consistency.
Posted: 11/23/2004 9:46 PM
Quote
Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
If you fall unconscious in a race 5 seconds before the goal (and it is noticed by the judges and the audience) but your car still crosses the goal line, does it count as a valid result? If the car collapses 10 meters before the goal but a wheel of it crosses the goal line, does it count as a valid result?
Posted: 11/23/2004 9:50 PM
Quote
Phil
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
If you fall unconscious in a race 5 seconds before the goal (and it is noticed by the judges and the audience) but your car still crosses the goal line, does it count as a valid result? Yes and good comparison with movies that stop movie earlier. My SMB1 looks like that ;) If the car collapses 10 meters before the goal but a wheel of it crosses the goal line, does it count as a valid result? No and I don't understand the comparison with timeattacks.
Posted: 11/23/2004 10:51 PM
Quote
Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
The movie should end at a time where no controller action could change the outcome. So if you're supposed to finish a game with a large jump, for example, and then fall on a floor button which will trigger the end sequence, you're not supposed to end the movie until the very frame on which you touch that floor button, because BEFORE that you could always press left or right in-flight and miss the button.
Posted: 11/23/2004 10:54 PM
Quote
Phil
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
What's the point of pressing left or right when watching a movie? I am the actor, you are the spectator. Only me can press left or right if I wish.
Posted: 11/23/2004 11:01 PM
Quote
Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
I think the biggest issue is that the game isn't really completed in the reported time. Currently we say for example "NES Monopoly completed in 00:35 Acmlm", but this isn't really true since the game is not completed until the computer is bankrupt, which doesn't happen for another 18 seconds.
Posted: 11/23/2004 11:13 PM
Quote
Highness
Player (70)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Well.. The user can't do anything more to succeed in bankrupting his opponent right? All he can do is wait for the game it self to move on.
Posted: 11/23/2004 11:14 PM
Quote
Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
Be that as it may, the game is still completed in 53 seconds, not in 35.
Posted: 11/23/2004 11:15 PM
Quote
Phil
Active player (410)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
For me, it's completed in 35 seconds.
Posted: 11/23/2004 11:24 PM
Quote
Bob_Whoops
Former player
Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Well, it's ambiguous wording. The movie is completed in 35 seconds. The game in completed in 53. So, are we talking about the game, or the movie, when we say it is completed?
Posted: 11/23/2004 11:27 PM
Quote
Kyrsimys
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland
I think the Monopoly movie is just silly. I mean, the point is to complete the game as fast as possible, not to make the shortest movie possible, right? The movie itself shouldn't matter as much as the game. The computer's turn is a big part of the game. Thus it should be a big part of the movie as well.
Posted: 11/24/2004 12:21 AM
Quote
Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
I think the SMB movie should end when Mario touches the axe. Bisqwit gave an excellent analogy to show why the movies shouldn't be stopped sooner. If you fall unconscious in a race 5 seconds before the goal (and it is noticed by the judges and the audience) but your car still crosses the goal line, does it count as a valid result? Suppose someone crosses the line 2 seconds before you, but he didn't fall unconscious. Who one the race, the person who crossed the line first or the person who fell unconcious and stopped giving the car input (by stepping on the gas and turning the wheel) first?
Posted: 11/24/2004 12:25 AM
Quote
Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Michael Fried wrote:
Who one the race, the person who crossed the line first or the person who fell unconcious and stopped giving the car input (by stepping on the gas and turning the wheel) first?
And more so, which of the times was the result time - the time when the driver passed out or the time when the line was crossed?
Posted: 11/24/2004 12:30 AM
Quote
Blublu
Player (67)
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 1058
Location: Reykjaví­k, Ísland
Well, my opinion is that a movie should end when it's impossible to make it fail to reach the ending. So if I were to play back that SMB movie and hold down left, thus preventing the movie from ending, then it was ended too soon. However, if the movie was ended mid-jump but it is still impossible to prevent it from ending, then it should be OK. I don't know why the hell the viewer should even be pushing any buttons, etc. This is just how I feel about it. Ending the movie early is pretty stylish, though, and I can see why people want to do it. It could become another one of those time-saving tricks that would be used regularly. After all, those movies are all about minimalism, or something, etc. But anyway, I think I'm still not entirely convinced that it should always be done. After all, almost no run does this. Pretty much every single run on this site could be "improved" by a few frames if this became a new trend.
1 2 3 4