Aims for shortest input (ending time not affected by this)
Plays "Time Attack" mode (story mode without dialogues)
Intro
After I optimized my previous submission of the "Superb Joe" mode TAS (and took part in other NES TAS projects), I present you the speedrun mode of the story mode called as "Time Attack" mode.
Let me introduce the game again. You can go left or right and use the grappling hook with A. Doors can be used with "Up". And a little physics: grappling for the minimum time gives the best vertical boost. Grappling for longer time yields in slower vertical speed but same horizontal speed. This is useful to avoid bumping the ceiling.
Detailed game tricks
6th frame is a lag (in-game)
While in-game, every 6th frame is a fake lag frame.
Fake grappling
As the name implies, this is useless for TASing (technical-wise). Pressing A for 1 frame right before the lag frame rule, you can manipulate the "walking" sound pattern without slowing down.
"RNG" manipulation
You can manipulate explosion sprite to pop up at different places by pressing A,L,R at random places. This can also affect enemies spawn (delaying them by 1 frame), so this is "remanipulated" to make 0 frame delays (you can't make them faster).
The strategy for the different situations is (in order of appearances):
Grabbing from ground
Used near to walls for activating grappling hook once grabbed it's target.
Double grabbing edges
This way I can make a bigger vertical boost. Greatly depends on vertical position and route (so this isn't the fastest everytime).
Opposite swinging
If you instantly switch direction between 2 grapplings, you will go 1px/f instead of 2px/f. This used to fine-tune movement.
Fast falling
You can keep your vertical boost for a few frames even if your vertical speed "reseted" to 0 after touching the ground. This is very useful when I would bump my head in the ceilings if I just try to avoid touching the ground while falling down.
Miscellaneous
If you like watching a guy grappling full random things, this TAS made for you. See you until my next TAS =)
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2224
Location: Georgia, USA
This looks pretty good. It's not as entertaining as Superb Joe though, mostly because the enemy density is a lot less most of the time. Also, the more I watched the video, the more I was getting annoyed that the character can grapple but never swings on the grapple. I know that what you did is faster, and I support that, but ultimately it makes for a less enjoyable run.
I'm going to have to go with Meh on entertainment, personally; I feel this doesn't really offer anything too rewarding beyond what Superb Joe mode does. Good job with the technical quality though!
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically.
Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.)
Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html)
Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature!
Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
This looks pretty good. It's not as entertaining as Superb Joe though, mostly because the enemy density is a lot less most of the time. Also, the more I watched the video, the more I was getting annoyed that the character can grapple but never swings on the grapple. I know that what you did is faster, and I support that, but ultimately it makes for a less enjoyable run.
I'm going to have to go with Meh on entertainment, personally; I feel this doesn't really offer anything too rewarding beyond what Superb Joe mode does. Good job with the technical quality though!
Thank you! Well, trading speed for entertainment is not an option for me.
I've tried to spice up the run as much as I could without making huge desyncs, so I manipulated sometimes the movement pattern sound, made a few "close calls" on pinky monsters (spawned from clowns), and I think that some routes I pulled of are clearly not the intended ones. I've also let the swinging sometimes when I didn't had to build up speed fast to avoid being too frequent of that noise. Also the swinging positions in a row at same ceiling heights are different for that similar reason (some variety).
I mean scenes like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpMYOHU85pI&feature=player_detailpage&t=102 until the next door.
Also for comparison:
RTA WR - 4:17.49An unoptimized TAS by "byrz" - 3:42.15 (doesn't uses the 1st secret door)
And mine: 3:25.79
For me, being so much faster is always adds to my own entertainment.
edit: btw I made 139 fm3 files through out the making of this TAS (and I started the very first level after submitting my 1st superb joe mode run (2013.02.20))
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Also, the more I watched the video, the more I was getting annoyed that the character can grapple but never swings on the grapple. I know that what you did is faster, and I support that, but ultimately it makes for a less enjoyable run.
In this game the character can't swing at all (it's not like Bionic Commando).
MESHUGGAH wrote:
btw I made 139 fm3 files through out the making of this TAS
I wonder what this random number is supposed to mean. ;)
Note to publishers: FCEUX 2.2.1 has a small bug with the mapper used by this game (can be seen on the title screen), so for publishing the movie I suggest using either 2.2.0 or 2.2.2-interim.
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2224
Location: Georgia, USA
Thanks, MESHUGGAH and AnS, for the responses. I didn't realize this game was meant to be that different from Bionic Commando. I figured calling one of the modes "Superb Joe" meant there would be more intended similarity.
MESHUGGAH, I have no issues with your decision of speed over entertainment. I completely support that. It's just a shame the end product wasn't as fun as I would've liked, but then again, that's the way these things go sometimes. It's sort of like what happened with Cross Fire where the more optimal run had to use more repetitive strategies.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically.
Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.)
Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html)
Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature!
Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
I've found an improvement that saves 5 frames already (manipulated one of the pink monster even better at ~2800th frame which lead to a faster ~3822th frame scene), so I cancel this submission and will resubmit when I'm done with it (probably a week at least).
AnS: this isn't a random number. The reason I have many files is
- I keep all possible routes in different .fm3 files and compare multiple ones with multiple fceux instances, so I don't need to memorize multiple values just watch the screen.
- Most of the .fm3 files are obviously very similar, I just don't want to lose already done routes.
My first TAS test wip (03:28.09) were made by 41 .fm3 files, later everytime I found an improvement, I had to resync the whole TAS which means I had to test all possible positions again since the 6th lag frame rule can be placed at an unfortunate frame. For example using the door can be made only on "not fake or real lag" frames, so if you are 1 frame faster and the frame you used U earlier was after a fake lag frame, next time you will have a lag frame there where you would use that. I think you understand what I'm talking about.
And of course, this is still just a statistical value and only numberophiles get enjoyed by that.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
I was saying, the number doesn't tell us whether it's big or small, because there's no known statistics for the kind of workflow you're using.
When you're using built-in branching mechanism, the thickness of tests (the number of checked routes/etc) is accounted in Rerecords Counter. It's an established practice that can be used to roughly estimate the level of optimization.
But when you're also keeping some branches in different projects, the number of files depends mostly on random factors, for example, in some of these files you store only one branch, but inside the other files there are 10 branches - so does it mean 139 or 1390 routes? In fact, a lot of tested routes were not saved in any of these 139 files, because those routes were proven ineffective (yet they had to be checked, and only the Rerecords Counter remembers how difficult it was to check them - but which fm3 file stores the actual value of Rerecords Counter?)
MESHUGGAH wrote:
And of course, this is still just a statistical value and only numberophiles get enjoyed by that.
Yes, I do like statistics, so I was trying to interpret the given data, but it seems that it can't be interpreted objectively.
