I've been using "Published" to mean being a "Publicated" run for this entire thread. He's the one who decided to use a new meaning. I never meant for "Published" to mean published in the game industry. Though he may have inferred it. If there were a different word, I would have used it, but "Publish" is the term this entire site uses as nomenclature for an accepted run.
Well, now you know that "published" has more than one meaning...
Et eum.
"The guy was fatally injured and wants to be covered by God's tears (rain) before he dies. God is too busy to bother because it wastes frames."
Frames 16:26
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Dyshonest wrote:
You used ad hominem but wished to be taken seriously.
Sorry. No can do.
Samsara wrote:
On top of that, there's the matter of completely abandoning your stance to point out something trivial and unrelated in hopes that you'll distract everyone from how wrong you are.
Like, say, not acknowledging anything I said except for that last sentence. Now you're hooked on this ad hominem thing again. By your logic, no one should have taken you seriously as early as the start of the ACE thread:
Dyshonest wrote:
@Masterjun: How long before your next /ragequit? :)
And also by your logic, no one should be taking you seriously at all given how many times you've attacked feos' English.
The fact that you're focusing on the ad hominem means that you have absolutely nothing left for your argument. Ad hominem doesn't completely invalidate a valid point. If I painted a wall red, specifically mixing the paint to the perfect #FF0000 shades, then pointed at the wall and said "This wall is red. Also, your mother is a whore", would the ad hominem make what I said false? It'd make me a douchebag, yes, and I will gleefully admit to being one if that's what makes you happy/gives you material for your next post, but no one would deny that my statement about the wall being red was true.
Then again, you'd probably claim that the wall used to be blue and I corrupted the memory to make it red.
EDIT:
xnamkcor wrote:
I've been using "Published" to mean being a "Publicated" run for this entire thread. He's the one who decided to use a new meaning. I never meant for "Published" to mean published in the game industry. Though he may have inferred it.
Radiant wrote:
You didn't answer my question. You've just implied that Air 2 has been published by some commercial entity equivalent to Apogee or Activision. I'm really curious as to when that happened, please show me a source of that.
If by "inferred" you mean "plainly stated it so it wouldn't be misunderstood", then yes. It would've been easy to say "I meant published as in the site terminology, not as in published as a licensed video game", but instead you took the smarmy "Heh, wow, you don't understand anything. Here's something that babies like you can understand" implication route.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
You used ad hominem but wished to be taken seriously.
Sorry. No can do.
Samsara wrote:
On top of that, there's the matter of completely abandoning your stance to point out something trivial and unrelated in hopes that you'll distract everyone from how wrong you are.
Like, say, not acknowledging anything I said except for that last sentence. Now you're hooked on this ad hominem thing again. By your logic, no one should have taken you seriously as early as the start of the ACE thread:
Dyshonest wrote:
@Masterjun: How long before your next /ragequit? :)
And also by your logic, no one should be taking you seriously at all given how many times you've attacked feos' English.
The fact that you're focusing on the ad hominem means that you have absolutely nothing left for your argument. Ad hominem doesn't completely invalidate a valid point. If I painted a wall red, specifically mixing the paint to the perfect #FF0000 shades, then pointed at the wall and said "This wall is red. Also, your mother is a whore", would the ad hominem make what I said false? It'd make me a douchebag, yes, and I will gleefully admit to being one if that's what makes you happy/gives you material for your next post, but no one would deny that my statement about the wall being red was true.
Then again, you'd probably claim that the wall used to be blue and I corrupted the memory to make it red.
EDIT:
xnamkcor wrote:
I've been using "Published" to mean being a "Publicated" run for this entire thread. He's the one who decided to use a new meaning. I never meant for "Published" to mean published in the game industry. Though he may have inferred it.
Radiant wrote:
You didn't answer my question. You've just implied that Air 2 has been published by some commercial entity equivalent to Apogee or Activision. I'm really curious as to when that happened, please show me a source of that.
If by "inferred" you mean "plainly stated it so it wouldn't be misunderstood", then yes. It would've been easy to say "I meant published as in the site terminology, not as in published as a licensed video game", but instead you took the smarmy "Heh, wow, you don't understand anything. Here's something that babies like you can understand" implication route.
As I said, I've been using "Published" for this entire thread to mean Publicated on this site. I have no responsibility for what he assumes.
"The guy was fatally injured and wants to be covered by God's tears (rain) before he dies. God is too busy to bother because it wastes frames."
Frames 16:26
(This is gold.
Pure, unadulterated gold. I had to sign in just to add that.)
Having not watched the Air 2 run, nor the HRM run, I can understand perfectly why only one run per hack niche should be allowed. It's a good mantra to follow, specifically since some to many of the people following this site, including lurkers like me, may care about the root game, and not have any knowledge on any of the plethora of ROMHacks available. To me, the few ROMHack TASes I've seen have satisfied my desire to see glitch-heavy/draconian difficulty/lulz modifications to otherwise famous/popular games.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
xnamkcor wrote:
As I said, I've been using "Published" for this entire thread to mean Publicated on this site. I have no responsibility for what he assumes.
And as I said, you were condescending as hell, implying that he and everyone else who brought it up were blundering idiots that you needed to educate with obvious material, and now you're blaming them for not paying super close attention to every minute detail of how you used a word with multiple meanings directly related to the context.
That's a level of narcissism so absurd that I'm honestly having trouble believing it's real.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
As I said, I've been using "Published" for this entire thread to mean Publicated on this site. I have no responsibility for what he assumes.
And as I said, you were condescending as hell, implying that he and everyone else who brought it up were blundering idiots that you needed to educate with obvious material, and now you're blaming them for not paying super close attention to every minute detail of how you used a word with multiple meanings directly related to the context.
That's a level of narcissism so absurd that I'm honestly having trouble believing it's real.
Not them. Him. He's the only one who assumed I meant Published in the Game Industry.
"The guy was fatally injured and wants to be covered by God's tears (rain) before he dies. God is too busy to bother because it wastes frames."
Frames 16:26
More than one person brought it up and you belittled both of them. The fact that it was a misunderstanding has been cleared up.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Like, say, not acknowledging anything I said except for that last sentence. Now you're hooked on this ad hominem thing again. By your logic, no one should have taken you seriously as early as the start of the ACE thread:
Respond to people as they wish to be responded to. If you can't take sarcastic remarks you shouldn't be using personal attacks.
My comment was a sarcastic reference to his (very recent and very brief) ragequit from TASing. I did not insult him for it nor did I insult him with it. If it is insulting to mention it, he shouldn't have done it.
And also by your logic, no one should be taking you seriously at all given how many times you've attacked feos' English.
When it starts to seriously impact the ability to understand him (and it does VERY often), yes, it is justified. I am not calling him stupid. I am similarly not calling him stupid for having poor English. But if you wish to take yourself seriously in a debate or something, be clear.
Ad hominem doesn't completely invalidate a valid point.
The fact that you're focusing on the ad hominem means that you have absolutely nothing left for your argument.
that you have absolutely nothing left for your argument.
Oh the irony it hurts. Personal attacks are when you've run out of anything resembling a valid argument and thus try to discredit them with insults.
John: "1+1 is 3."
Bob: "No it isn't."
John: "Yes it is."
Bob: "Fuck you."
Bob has very little credibility when, instead of proving his part of the argument... merely resorts to petty name-calling.
I know exactly how to manage hormone-driven keyboard warriors like you, pal. You're not special, unique or entertaining. zzz. Predictable, boring, and repetitive.
@Patashu: Did you seriously just link to Gawker...? lol.
Let's go back to replying to a more intelligent topic than what's boiling down to "STFU! KURZE WURDS MAEK ME KOOL AN CORREKT AN TOTALLY DUN DIZCREDITT MEH!!!".
---
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=380205#380205
Can anyone fetch links for rejected/accepted ROM hacks?
More than one person brought it up and you belittled both of them. The fact that it was a misunderstanding has been cleared up.
I granted a request for citation and when Guga said I should have cited specific instances, I did.
The first person assumed I was talking about game industry publications and insisted I cite where it says Air and Air 2 were published in the game industry, despite the context of the site we're on and its nomenclature. I can understand him not knowing which i was referring to, but I cannot control the fact that he became so aggressive about insisting it had to mean what he assumed it was.
Dyshonest wrote:
Let's go back to replying to a more intelligent topic than what's boiling down to "STFU! KURZE WURDS MAEK ME KOOL AN CORREKT AN TOTALLY DUN DIZCREDITT MEH!!!".
---
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=380205#380205
Can anyone fetch links for rejected/accepted ROM hacks?
Oh! You know the thing where you make up scenarios about games or stories if you do them backwards? We make hacks that have the player actually do those things, then we TAS them.
Like make a Hack where Link has to give Medalions to sages, put them to sleep, then go to sleep and wake up as a child then put the stones back and lose his fairy and fall asleep and have a bad dream.
"The guy was fatally injured and wants to be covered by God's tears (rain) before he dies. God is too busy to bother because it wastes frames."
Frames 16:26
The main thing I don't understand about this topic is why people are trying to have a logical conversation with other people who are clearly illogical.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Dyshonest wrote:
When it starts to seriously impact the ability to understand him (and it does VERY often), yes, it is justified. I am not calling him stupid. I am similarly not calling him stupid forhaving poor English. But if you wish to take yourself seriously in a debate or something, be clear.
Almost every time he's spoken, you've mentioned that you can't understand because of his "poor" English. You're not even bothering to try to understand.
Oh the irony it hurts. Personal attacks are when you've run out of anything resembling a valid argument and thus try to discredit them with insults.
John: "1+1 is 3."
Bob: "No it isn't."
John: "Yes it is."
Bob: "Fuck you."
Bob has very little credibility when, instead of proving his part of the argument... merely resorts to petty name-calling.
Sure, except that's not what happened at all. But okay! Whatever you say! All I ever do is personally attack you as a "last resort"! Yep, sure thing, buddy!
I'd love to call you a retard in every post I make in this thread but unfortunately I do have relevant things to say that you're conveniently ignoring in favor of painting me as, well...
I know exactly how to manage hormone-driven keyboard warriors like you, pal.
Right, that incredibly false description of me.
By the way, are hypocrisy, ignorance and false superiority the EXACT ways to manage people like me? Because I've seen nothing else from you this entire time.
You're not special, unique or entertaining. zzz. Predictable, boring, and repetitive.
Sure I am, which is why you're not ignoring me like a normal person would. It'd be real easy to just say "Oh, it's that Samsara faggot again. Bo-ring~" and not address me in the slightest, but nope. You're too easily provoked.
The only reason you're ignoring me NOW is because you're out of ways you think you can feel superior to me, and you don't want to go back to being obvious about it like in the ACE thread. You're trying to focus on someone you determine to be "weak" and "inferior", ignoring anyone else who may have a salient point. You are getting played in the exact same way as the ACE thread. I am literally doing the EXACT same thing I did before, short of outright calling you retarded.
You have yet to not respond to anything I've said. If you want to prove your point about how I'm repetitive and boring, ignore me. If you want to continue being a hypocrite, you know what to do.
Let's go back to replying to a more intelligent topic than what's boiling down to "STFU! KURZE WURDS MAEK ME KOOL AN CORREKT AN TOTALLY DUN DIZCREDITT MEH!!!".
See? You already did it. You imply that you're done with me and then IMMEDIATELY turn around and call it back into effect.
Wait.
KURZE WURDS MAEK ME KOOL AN CORREKT AN TOTALLY DUN DIZCREDITT MEH!!!
TOTALLY DUN DIZCREDITT MEH!!!
Did you literally just imply that swearing discredits whatever I said? Is that a thing you just implied? Seriously?
Don't answer that. It's funnier that way.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
If I painted a wall red, specifically mixing the paint to the perfect #FF0000 shades, then pointed at the wall and said "This wall is red. Also, your mother is a whore", would the ad hominem make what I said false?
Well, that's not ad hominem for one. Those are two statements which could be true or untrue. "Your mother is a whore, therefore you can't tell what color this fence is," is ad hominem, unless of course his position is that sons of whores can't tell what color fences are.
======
As for the actual argument, the site already doesn't have a universal acceptance policy, even for licensed games. There's poor game choice for autoscrollers or rhythm games, and generally allowing the use of only the modes that are considered most entertaining. I believe games on different platforms (SNES vs Genesis for example) have also been rejected in the past for a superior version existing. Sometimes that's in terms of difficulty, sometimes it's in terms of character choice, sometimes it's in terms of game mode. Nobody wants to see or encourage 1,296 different runs of Final Fantasy using every possible party combination, even though the gameplay and strategies will be very different for four fighters vs four white mages. Same with easy vs hard mode, 1 player vs 2, etc.
The general guidelines in place are just that, general, and if multiple runs can sufficiently differentiate themselves from each other, often through tricks/glitches used, they're accepted. Hacks are subjected to stronger scrutiny in this regard precisely because they already are descended from the original game's engine so must bring something else the community here considers notable.
The reason HRM obsoleted Air 2 is that the two are not sufficiently differentiated from each other. Identical glitches were used in both, but more frequently and to overcome more difficult scenarios in one than the other. Length and perceived difficulty probably also figured into it.
As for who determines what is sufficiently differentiated? The forum users and judges. People asked for this obsoletion because they beleived the two showed the same concept, but one showed it better.
The main thing I don't understand about this topic is why people are trying to have a logical conversation with other people who are clearly illogical.
Seriously, why can't we just talk about Backwards Day. This topic totally got out of hand.
Link to the Past hack where you slowly return items to chests and have to battler harder and harder dungeons with less and less equipment.
Scepheo wrote:
It'd be nice if we could manage to collectively ignore this thread from now on.
It's easy, just...ignore it.
Edit: I think "Your mother is a whore" would be "Ad Familia".
"The guy was fatally injured and wants to be covered by God's tears (rain) before he dies. God is too busy to bother because it wastes frames."
Frames 16:26
Sure I am, which is why you're not ignoring me like a normal person would.
What fun is that? zzz.
You're too easily provoked.
...says the person who begins to foam at the mouth and starts cursing...
Did you literally just imply that swearing discredits whatever I said? Is that a thing you just implied? Seriously?
NSFW:
Fucking yes I fucking did fucking goddammit fuck fuck I'm answering you fuck fuck I'm fucking fuck right right???????
When you have to start to resort to cursing (yes most of us do it in natural conversation. I also know how to keep it out of... actual discussions. You're the type of person that probably thinks cursing in school or something is "okay").
It is hard to take someone seriously when they feel the incessant need to string curse words into their "point". It looks immature and generally offensive because 90% of the time its used as ad hominem.
When you at some point while claiming the other person is wrong feel the need to call them a douchebag and that they're "full of shit"... what credit DO you have?
You keep talking about your little inferiority complex to the world... but uh, if you think I'm constantly "trying to be superior"... why don't you, as you put it, "lrn2ignoredaretard"?
Just posting to say that I completely disagree with the two quite vocal gentlemen we have here; I didn't read anything that can change my views on how the site should work.
My opinion is that the judges and admins are doing a good job with how they handle the games and hacks publications right now.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
(3576)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Tangent wrote:
As for the actual argument, the site already doesn't have a universal acceptance policy, even for licensed games. There's poor game choice for autoscrollers or rhythm games, and generally allowing the use of only the modes that are considered most entertaining. I believe games on different platforms (SNES vs Genesis for example) have also been rejected in the past for a superior version existing. Sometimes that's in terms of difficulty, sometimes it's in terms of character choice, sometimes it's in terms of game mode. Nobody wants to see or encourage 1,296 different runs of Final Fantasy using every possible party combination, even though the gameplay and strategies will be very different for four fighters vs four white mages. Same with easy vs hard mode, 1 player vs 2, etc.
The general guidelines in place are just that, general, and if multiple runs can sufficiently differentiate themselves from each other, often through tricks/glitches used, they're accepted. Hacks are subjected to stronger scrutiny in this regard precisely because they already are descended from the original game's engine so must bring something else the community here considers notable.
The reason HRM obsoleted Air 2 is that the two are not sufficiently differentiated from each other. Identical glitches were used in both, but more frequently and to overcome more difficult scenarios in one than the other. Length and perceived difficulty probably also figured into it.
As for who determines what is sufficiently differentiated? The forum users and judges. People asked for this obsoletion because they beleived the two showed the same concept, but one showed it better.
I just wanted to emphasize this post, since it is very well constructed, very rational and objective, and spot on accurate as to what the situation was regarding Hard Relay Mario obsoleting Air 2.
You keep talking about your little inferiority complex to the world... but uh, if you think I'm constantly "trying to be superior"... why don't you, as you put it, "lrn2ignoredaretard"?
Well, congrats, you have gone low enough to use actual ad hominen.
PD: Welcome to the real world.
You keep talking about your little inferiority complex to the world... but uh, if you think I'm constantly "trying to be superior"... why don't you, as you put it, "lrn2ignoredaretard"?
Well, congrats, you have gone low enough to use actual ad hominen.
PD: Welcome to the real world.
If he keeps saying I have a "superiority complex" in situations where superiority or inferiority either don't matter or exist, clearly he feels inferior to me, or something.
If you are referring to my use of "retard", that was a jab at him saying (at least ten times per post), "I want to call you a retard so badly [...]".
(by the way what is "PD:"? Did you mean P.S.?)
I would like to end this portion of the topic. It isn't going to get constructive at this point and I believe what had to be said has been said.
adelikat, my proposed idea about managing a hack list, would there be an easy way of searching through current/past submissions (rejected/accepted) for which ones are ROM hacks or not?
[...]
adelikat, my proposed idea about managing a hack list, would there be an easy way of searching through current/past submissions (rejected/accepted) for which ones are ROM hacks or not?
[...]
adelikat, my proposed idea about managing a hack list, would there be an easy way of searching through current/past submissions (rejected/accepted) for which ones are ROM hacks or not?
http://tasvideos.org/Movies-C4025Y.html
This is supposed to be a list of all "current" runs of "unnofficial" games, but it would seem that due to how this is handles, "Air" and "Air 2" no longer have entries. Even though they were never improved on.
According to this list, now only Hard Relay exists.
Could we get a descriptor for "Replaces different game"?. My original idea was to stop using a single entry for multiple games, but I don't see that happening, so it'd be nice if the entry itself indicated it was a "multi-game" entry.
Given some time I might be able to think of a way to have a single entry for each hack that we've ever accepted as a "Publications"(Quotes! Huzzah) for "TASvideos.org". I'll have to look up how the database system works here and see how this one differs from a traditional database that would make such a thing overly difficult.
PS: Megaman X game where you personally deploy Mavericks and hide your own upgrades in their stage and then go to sleep until some old guy wakes you up.
"The guy was fatally injured and wants to be covered by God's tears (rain) before he dies. God is too busy to bother because it wastes frames."
Frames 16:26
[...]
http://tasvideos.org/Movies-C4025Y.html
This is supposed to be a list of all "current" runs of "unnofficial" games, but it would seem that due to how this is handles, "Air" and "Air 2" no longer have entries. Even though they were never improved on.
According to this list, now only Hard Relay exists.
Could we get a descriptor for "Replaces different game"?. My original idea was to stop using a single entry for multiple games, but I don't see that happening, so it'd be nice if the entry itself indicated it was a "multi-game" entry.
Given some time I might be able to think of a way to have a single entry for each hack that we've ever accepted as a "Publications"(Quotes! Huzzah) for "TASvideos.org". I'll have to look up how the database system works here and see how this one differs from a traditional database that would make such a thing overly difficult.
[...]
Adding such a descriptor/category could even be done automatically at publication, I'm in for it, but can't do it myself (same for multi-obsoletions, but I have no idea how these are even done).
BTW: I have no database access and no knowledge about how the site operates internally in detail.
All syllogisms have three parts, therefore this is not a syllogism.
