Game information
  • Emulator used: PSXjin v2.0.2 svn0
  • Bios used: scph1000.bin
  • Disk ID: SLPS-01272
  • Game name: Rittai Ninja Katsugeki - Tenchu
  • Game Version: JPN 1.0
  • Genre: Action
Game Objectives
  • Uses hardest difficulty
  • Aims for fastest
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Luck manipulation
  • Pacifist
More Techniques and Tricks
  • Most techniques I was learned from here: #3988: Hâthor's PSX Tenchu: Stealth Assassins (USA) in 29:52.65
  • Improve speed at intro/selections: just press buttons at correct frame or press all needed buttons in same time
  • Control enemy actions: The core I found, enemy actions depend timer it received damage, easy make non stop attacks to Boss. That's why sometimes will see my attacks have slow a bit. It's just "slower for faster"
  • Kill boss in a hit: All bosses will die if falling down water
  • Make boss thought wall: it's a my funny idea . Because Hâthor said can't hit boss when it blocked wall then I try do it
Difference between JP and US
  • Like Hâthor said, many thing have difference. JPN version have less than stages. Some tricks/bugs can work in JPN version but not work in US version, and else. Example quick stand up after hook, speed item, thought house roof, the fast way for done stage Cure the princess,etc. I must find other ways can do fast as possible
Thanks
  • Hâthor: show me his run, learned alot thing from him
  • ALAKTORN: sent me some ideas

feos: Judging...
feos: Accepting as a separate run. However it won't have a branch, at least for now. Because the completion type is the same, between the 2 games, only the region differs. Therefore, the region will be an indicator. I'm not using the Japanese title for this one, because we have a tradition of using the region mark alongside the English title instead. Also publishing...


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4368: NhatNM's PSX Tenchu: Stealth Assassins (Japan) in 16:34.17
Spikestuff
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Since this is the Japanese version 1.0 I'm going to quote something from the other TAS. Just to expand on N?K's point.
TASVideoAgent wrote:
Difference between JP and US In fact, there are 3 japanese versions of this game. In the first japanese version, there are only 8 levels and only one layout for each. Missing levels are 4 and 5 in the US version. Option, character select, item select and level select screens are also different. Bosses have different weapons. Mashing button are less permissive in the JP version. Other interesting difference is that, in the level 1, you have to defeat Katanal and Echigoya in the same place. So you don't have to quit the first area and you save a lot of time. Finally, 180° reverse roll is absent in the first JP version. In order to respond at this lack of levels in japanese version, an second edition was published and called Tenchu: Shinobi Gensai. This version almost matches with US and PAL versions with a level editor directly offered by the game (you're not obligated to unlock it with a cheat code). There is also a supplementary short cutscene just after the end of the level 5 (Katoaka's Senpuku). Funny thing about the PAL version is that gives you kunai instead of shuriken and the 50 Hz makes the sequence breaking of the level 9 more difficult. The first JP version seems to be less challenging and interresting to TAS, but may be Shinobi Gensai version will offer a good challenge because of the layouts are very well thinking (particular shorcuts are impossible). Furthermore, Sephyr0sS and Riskbreaker Y have chosen the US version for one reason : it seems to be the fastest version given the layouts. I really wanted to help them. That's why I choose the US version.
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ALAKTORN
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in the cure the princess(?) level, at the beginning you seem to run in the wrong direction and then you turn left to correct yourself… wasn’t that bad? and at the end, after the final hook shoot, can you trigger the cutscene with a sidejump? (right arrow + jump button) it should be faster than turning and running forward if possible in the last level you took 2 bombs that you didn’t use, would it be faster to not take them or to use them in the level before?
Cooljay
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I didn't mind this improvement, and was a bit more entertained than the former. Voting Yes.
mklip2001
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I haven't watched this yet... I will be getting to it, and I'm looking forward to it (even though I can't make fun of Japanese voice acting as much). However, I am concerned that this run isn't a fair comparison with the previous one if the Japanese version has shorter / missing stages. N?K, do you have any measurements for how much you improved Hathor's run in comparable areas? How much of an improvement would this be if you had the same stages?
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
NhatNM
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ALAKTORN wrote:
in the cure the princess(?) level, at the beginning you seem to run in the wrong direction and then you turn left to correct yourself… wasn’t that bad?
No, it's just camera auto turn. You can watch my inputs in movie file at 32834
ALAKTORN wrote:
and at the end, after the final hook shoot, can you trigger the cutscene with a sidejump? (right arrow + jump button) it should be faster than turning and running forward if possible
Good idea, I didn't think this. But I think jump forward to wall then jump back is faster, didn't test
ALAKTORN wrote:
in the last level you took 2 bombs that you didn’t use, would it be faster to not take them or to use them in the level before?
The final boss I was remake 4th times, at the final time I was saved 2 bombs. Wasted 4 frames for take them, is it big :D
mklip2001 wrote:
N?K, do you have any measurements for how much you improved Hathor's run in comparable areas? How much of an improvement would this be if you had the same stages?
Yes, can't compare. Something have in US version but don't have in JPN version, speed item is one. Pass sub-boss in stage 1 in JPN version don't have in US version Edit: ok I'll make a compare frames with same stage on both version in tonight. Now I'm working, can't play game
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That must be the slowest-moving ninja in the history of videogames. Also, those graphics... They make Crysis 3 look like an 8-bit game.
NhatNM
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Here's my result compare in stage (not intro, menu): start stage, end stage, time used Punish the evil merchant Me: 2516 5885 3369 Hâthor: 2743 9132 6389 Deliver the secret message Me: 7930 10604 2674 Hâthor: 11025 13229 2204 Rescue the captive ninja Me: 12539 16766 4227 Hâthor: 15112 18559 3447 Infiltrate the Manji cult Me: 20712 26793 6081 Hâthor: 45562 51269 5707 Destroy the foreign pirate Me: 28754 31277 2523 Hâthor: 53142 56045 2903 Cure the princess Me: 32838 36147 3309 Hâthor: 57466 59833 2367 Reclaim the castle Me: 37720 42511 4791 Hâthor: 61316 65669 4353 Free the princess Me: 44306 59885 15579 Hâthor: 67343 82422 15079 Total time used Me: 42553 Hâthor: 42449
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ALAKTORN
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how is your Reclaim the Castle so fast? you didn’t use Hathor’s skip O_o (I assume it’s impossible in Jap v.1.0) anyway, if this were to be published, I don’t think it should obsolete Hathor’s run, but be published as a separate “Japanese 1.0” run or whatever, as far as optimization goes I can already tell you that despite what the frames say N?K’s run is better optimized, it’s just the version differences that play into it
xxNKxx wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
and at the end, after the final hook shoot, can you trigger the cutscene with a sidejump? (right arrow + jump button) it should be faster than turning and running forward if possible
Good idea, I didn't think this. But I think jump forward to wall then jump back is faster, didn't test
you should test it, then; maybe you can hex-edit the following stages
xxNKxx wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
in the last level you took 2 bombs that you didn’t use, would it be faster to not take them or to use them in the level before?
The final boss I was remake 4th times, at the final time I was saved 2 bombs. Wasted 4 frames for take them, is it big :D
that should be easy to hex-edit by removing the 4 frames in which you take the 2 bombs, have you tried?
Patashu
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Is there any precedent for this kind of thing, where a TAS is deliberately played on a version that has less levels to make the game end faster?
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Spikestuff
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Patashu wrote:
A TAS is deliberately played on a version that has less levels to make the game end faster?
I can think of another game that has been TASed which had less levels. Gex: Enter the Gecko (Gex64) The Nintendo 64 version has less levels to the Playstation and PC version... Wikipedia: The Nintendo 64 version of Gex: Enter the Gecko was entitled Gex 64: Enter the Gecko. This version features a new level, which replaced the secret levels. It is titled "Gecques Cousteau", a play on the French diver Jacques Cousteau, and is centered on the RMS Titanic, and played almost entirely underwater. Other changes include fewer bonus levels and fewer quotes, due to the Nintendo 64 cartridges storing significantly less data for games than CDs. Some of the sound effects were altered slightly. The only normal level that was removed was Scream TV's "Poltergex".
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NhatNM
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Plz remember i just calculator in stage time, for totally i still faster because my improve skip intro/selections (look at start frames on both will know). About his shorcut ways, I tried all, but it didn't work by JPN version His run just faster by speed item, i just faster by kill bosses (yep lucky control are special things) I think don't compare both versions, they didn't same (and i want make US version with improve bosses attack time) :D
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Spikestuff
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Going off two address which act exactly the same in both regions I managed to get you guys frame times. These work more of a total time thing where it's setup and doing the level. **They both reset after a loading screen. _N?K_ | Hâthor | Difference 05307 | 08153 | -2846 04548 | 03974 | +574 08049 | 07187 | +862 00000 | 11007 | 00000 00000 | 11832 | 00000 07958 | 07472 | +486 04032 | 04303 | -271 04740 | 03633 | +1107 06353 | 05805 | +548 16632 | 16112 | +520 ___________________ 57865 | 56805 | +980 Final Inputs: 59885 | 107560* (82069) *The extra input was showing stats. ** Japan's values freeze and NTSC actually drop the number and waits for a restart.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
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NhatNM
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Huh? More than 1000 frames? It's terrible :(
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Spikestuff
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xxNKxx wrote:
Huh? More than 1000 frames? It's terrible :(
I should mention why one line is marked in green. Simply put. I don't trust those values. Since they both trigger a clip they both reset but they both reset differently. NTSC completely cuts out the time while Japan continues to increase the time until it freezes the number. Technically it's not 1000 behind but 460 behind when ignoring the green values. I will switch out the green values when I get an accurate number. All the other values are correct but not the final fight (marked in green). Edit: Apparently I cannot Math. Edit2: Still cannot Math.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
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NhatNM
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Huh? Still compare stages when item, tricks/bugs, enemies not same ? Hard understand -.-
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mklip2001
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Alright, I've seen this run. It isn't quite as entertaining for me when I don't understand the dialogue, but the movement seems accurate and the fights are good. ALAKTORN's post was really helpful for understanding more about the version differences. I'll say this gets a Yes vote but should be a separate publication.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
NhatNM
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Yes, should be like that ^^ Btw, I was tried edit movie for reduce select bombs like ALAKTORN said, but the run after that isn't same original. Then if I want do, I must remake the run, sound like hell :(
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Spikestuff wrote:
Patashu wrote:
A TAS is deliberately played on a version that has less levels to make the game end faster?
I can think of another game that has been TASed which had less levels. Gex: Enter the Gecko (Gex64) The Nintendo 64 version has less levels to the Playstation and PC version... Wikipedia: The Nintendo 64 version of Gex: Enter the Gecko was entitled Gex 64: Enter the Gecko. This version features a new level, which replaced the secret levels. It is titled "Gecques Cousteau", a play on the French diver Jacques Cousteau, and is centered on the RMS Titanic, and played almost entirely underwater. Other changes include fewer bonus levels and fewer quotes, due to the Nintendo 64 cartridges storing significantly less data for games than CDs. Some of the sound effects were altered slightly. The only normal level that was removed was Scream TV's "Poltergex".
But they are of different consoles. This is both for the same console (PSX) but different regions. I think the (U) version should be used in this case.
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Ok, as the Gex guy, I have to clarify some things here: Gex: Enter the Gecko is not a good example of a game, where you deliberately TAS a version with less levels. The amount of regular levels (bonus levels are irrelevant for any%) is exactly the same, it's just that the two versions each have one exclusive level. The reason the N64-version is used for speedruns and TASes (besides the option to disable the time-wasting quotes), is that the exclusive level lets you have more remotes earlier on, which allows you to skip a boss. For 100%, I would prefer the Playstation version, because it has more content overall. This is my opinion for all games btw, don't try to save time with a version that has less content.
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i think that both version have enough differences to grant a separate category until a run of the J Shinobi Gensai version merge them again. i think of skyblazer as a precedent where the beta rom was obseleted by the full version run. (if i remember corretly )
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Yes, you're right. Also every stage of the final version is slower, I just managed to beat the beta version because of a cut scene at the very end... But both versions have the same number of stages, so I don't know if it's really a precedent. In any case, I also like to see it published, and like others have said, not obsoleting the USA version.
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I'm seeing you're also working on a USA version, N?K, right? Would you want a movie replacement? What are you plans overall?
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NhatNM
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I'm just testing on USA version, many things not same, need find ways more than for improve everything I don't have any plan. Just do when I feel interest and change to other games when feel bored, still have left few runs not done :D Replacement? Are you mean if I want improve more than this run then do it ?. Oh yes, I'll save 4 waste frames. Wait me few days, I'll remake stages :D
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ALAKTORN
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feos wrote:
I'm seeing you're also working on a USA version, N?K, right? Would you want a movie replacement? What are you plans overall?
he doesn’t want to replace this run with USA, JPN and USA can be considered different games for how widely different they are he’s just improving on Hathor’s run now using the same version for a new submission