If you search for "pepsiman tasvideos" instead, then you do find the published TAS as the first hit. But you'd think we'd rank more highly for just "TAS" as well. Weird.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
If you want to search for a TAS from TASVideos on YouTube for a particular run, then use the search engine and movie categorization features here: http://tasvideos.org/
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
If you want to search for a TAS from TASVideos on YouTube for a particular run, then use the search engine and movie categorization features here: http://tasvideos.org/
Yep! I know all about the intended way to do it. But 99% of people who watch TASes will use youtube to look, or notice it when youtube searching for something else perhaps. So youtube search optimization is important. (If it wasn't, then we wouldn't even bother publishing on youtube, of course.)
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Patashu wrote:
So youtube search optimization is important.
We don't control how YouTube searches work. We make some effort there, but that's it. The only proper way is via the site, and every one of our videos links back to the site.
Patashu wrote:
(If it wasn't, then we wouldn't even bother publishing on youtube, of course.
We publish on YouTube because it hosts videos for free, not because we believe in their search capabilities. Our videos randomly showing up for people who don't know about us is just a bonus.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Nach wrote:
If you want to search for a TAS from TASVideos on YouTube for a particular run, then use the search engine and movie categorization features here: http://tasvideos.org/
Of course, on this site we can just search for runs with our own search tools, no problem.
The problem is that because of this, it's harder for YouTube users to find TASVideosChannel and its official high-quality site-standard encodes, and by extension, TASVideos itself.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
The site automatically generates tags for runs based on details such as name, submitter, system.
Site editors can also add additional tags manually: http://tasvideos.org/SystemTVCControl.html
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Derakon wrote:
If you search for "pepsiman tasvideos" instead, then you do find the published TAS as the first hit. But you'd think we'd rank more highly for just "TAS" as well. Weird.
This really sounds like tags are critical and more important than titles. I suggest adding "TAS" to tags for each upload.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Nach wrote:
The site automatically generates tags for runs based on details such as name, submitter, system.
This doesn't seem to be reflected from what I heard from adelikat on IRC yesterday, or from anything I can see at all. Are you sure this system actually works?
In any case, it's important to make sure we have such tags such as "TASVideos" or "TAS" or its expanded form, and the details you mentioned, and make sure it actually works in YouTube. Tags are indeed very important for YouTube searching, probably moreso than title and description.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Okay, so that does work then. Good. I stand corrected.
That opens up another problem, though - what else can we do against the search problem?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Wait, the auto-generated tags don't include the name of the game? Shouldn't that be the most important thing to tag?
Just to make sure, I checked again on two more videos and the game name is never tagged. I think that'd make a sizable difference on its own.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Samsara wrote:
Wait, the auto-generated tags don't include the name of the game? Shouldn't that be the most important thing to tag?
It does include it.
Samsara wrote:
Just to make sure, I checked again on two more videos and the game name is never tagged. I think that'd make a sizable difference on its own.
The odds of it making a difference is unlikely, Google isn't stupid and uses title of the entry for searches too.
As for you not seeing it, there's many explanations, but the fact is, we're sending it to them.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
I see that the youtube tags come in minority and non specific. We should add very specific tags and in great mayority, even on search results with grammar and spelling mistakes then.
I see that the youtube tags come in minority and non specific. We should add very specific tags and in great mayority, even on search results with grammar and spelling mistakes then.
I read once that if you add too many tags then Youtube's search algorithm weighs each of them with less importance, so you only want to put in tags that will make a difference.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Bear in mind that aside from special yt:whatever tags, Google doesn't pay much attention to them, Google cares more about description and what pages linking to it has to say. They're primarily for other search engines.
That being said, I found that someone made the code now use game specific tags from here: http://tasvideos.org/GamenamesEditor.html
Editors, it looks like there's work to be done.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Thanks for that link, Nach. It's nice to know there's a way to help fix this problem.
By the way, I can't seem to access the info pages for 1511 (Coleco Frogger II) or 1560 (A7800 Choplifter). Is there a way I can give those a search key and create a page for them?
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Unfortunately I wasn't involved with the creation of this aspect of the site, and a bunch of these pages are quite hard to find, as they're not advertised or well connected elsewhere.
It could be we have such an editor. Will need to hunt around. It took me ~20 minutes of searching the site just to find the aforementioned link which I knew existed, but no idea where.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Tags are indeed very important for YouTube searching, probably moreso than title and description.
It’s surprising to see this amount of wrong coming from this community. Tags are next to absolutely irrelevant for YouTube searches. Title is the most important factor.
Having said that, I have no idea how searching “pepsiman” finds the channel but “pepsiman TAS” doesn’t.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
ALAKTORN wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
Tags are indeed very important for YouTube searching, probably moreso than title and description.
It’s surprising to see this amount of wrong coming from this community. Tags are next to absolutely irrelevant for YouTube searches. Title is the most important factor.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
Tags are next to absolutely irrelevant for YouTube searches. Title is the most important factor.
https://www.youtube.com/results?filters=video&lclk=video&search_query=tas+gbc - YouTube video searching for "tas gbc". 9 videos from TVC on the first page.
https://www.youtube.com/results?filters=video&lclk=video&search_query=tas+gbc+game+boy+color - Adding "game boy color" to the query, which is a tag on TVC movies and otherwise not noted anywhere on TVC videos. 12 videos from TVC on the first page now (most of the rest of the videos having "game boy color" somewhere in their descriptions instead).
I may have overstated the importance of tags, but to say they're "next to absolutely irrelevant" is just as ignorant.
EDIT: Since it's subjective anyway how much is 'irrelevant' enough, and there doesn't seem to be any conclusive evidence as to how much impact it makes exactly (which also varies over time, varies based on the user searching, etc.), it's pretty much pointless to argue this further.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
