Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377
If item% is part of your goals, inventory-manipulating glitches mustn't be used. It's awesome to state controversial opinions as facts. That way you don't need actual arguments! ;)
m00
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
RattleMan wrote:
As RingRush said, the only thing questionable is the Deku Stick icon that appears during RBA. It's unusable and you never acquire any actual Deku Sticks ("ammo"), so some wonder if it counts as an item.
Which route is more entertaining: stick-on-B or the alternative without the stick?
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
Since the more experienced people here fail to provide any actuall arguments, I might as well give it a go. The stick on B shouldn't count since u never actually aquire any sticks at all, the only thing that appears when u get it is the icon of the stick on B. Thx : p edit: due to the comment below I realised my last statement, which was: "In no way can this be used for anything without actually aquiring some sticks." is not correct, since u apparantly have to press B with the stick on B to get bottle on B. I therefore removed it from my argument.
Experienced player (511)
Joined: 4/14/2009
Posts: 116
Synx: First of all, you have to press the stick on B button in order to get the bottle on B. Thus, although you are not using sticks for their "normal use", you are still using them as a means to an end. Secondly, you CAN use the sticks on B without getting normal sticks by RBAing "stick ammo". These do not appear as normal sticks in your inventory, but do allow you to use sticks on B. And if you say "well until you RBA them, it is unusable", I will just say "well until you are in front of the Kakriko guard, Zelda's Letter is unusable" and claim it doesn't count. Third, what about the bomb icon on C down? It is in a very similar situation to the stick on B. If we say the stick on B counts no matter what, then that also mean the bomb counts no matter what, and the low% will be free to RBA and use bombs. Perhaps this is the best ruling, but a lot of people think the three coolest things about low% are bomb skip, hover boots skip, and hookshot skip. Fourth, if we say the stick on B doesn't count, then the fastest route would involve getting a stick on B, RBAing stick ammo, and using that ammo to light torchs in the Spirit Temple, thus skipping a long and chu-consuming hover to get past the silver block as child (I'm not 100% sure this is still true for TAS, but I know it is true for real time). How would viewers feel if you are using sticks, but say "they don't count"? There is a strong case that you never actually obtained the item "deku stick", just used them through manipulation of your B button, but how many random viewers are going to understand that? Fifth, let us say we rule deku sticks ammo counts as an item when paired with deku stick on B. Using the same logic, arrows count as an item when paired with Light Arrows. Therefore, getting the Bow and Quiver is less items than the Gold Scale + Ruto's Bottle + Arrows, completely changing the current idea of low%. This also involves a very boring hover in the Forest Temple off of a green bubble. Sixth, if we say items on B count no matter what, then it only makes sense that the fishing rod counts as an item. Getting the fishing rod on B is a necesary step in RBA, so this means RBA would have to be avoided. Once again, this would lead to a very boring hover in the Forest Temple to get to the bow. Basically, the stick situation is a mess. Regardless of what we rule, there will be some ugly consequences. The easiest way to get out of it would be to ban RBA altogether, but even then stick on B would still be useful to skip hovering in the Spirit Temple. Plus, without RBA, low% suffers as I said before from the bubble hover. Really, in my opinion, the ability to get bombchus without deku sticks ruined low%. Low% all temples however, does not need RBA to get the minimum 27 items (25 items if we don't count ganon's trials, although I think bloob did them in his TAS and SDA ruled them necesary). It has also a far more interesting route and more interesting tricks. If we were going to see a low% run, I think a low% all temples is a much better option.
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
RingRush wrote:
If we were going to see a low% run, I think a low% all temples is a much better option.
If this is the most entertaining of the options, I see no reason it shouldn't be done... that, of course, is up to whoever runs it. I've been bored lately, but I get the feeling this isn't a good first game to attempt TASes of; seems complicated. A shame... I'd take it on myself, if I could. :(
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Joined: 6/12/2008
Posts: 84
Honestly, the only future I see for an OoT tas would be the any % one. Bloobs all temle one is quite recent despite being quite outdated; I highly doubt anyone would be willing to undertake the task of updating Bloobs run. And agreed to RingRush when it comes to the low % run; there's just no point for such a category to exist any longer. That said, I am happily and patiently waiting for the any% run.
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
BrainStormer wrote:
Honestly, the only future I see for an OoT tas would be the any % one. Bloobs all temle one is quite recent despite being quite outdated; I highly doubt anyone would be willing to undertake the task of updating Bloobs run. And agreed to RingRush when it comes to the low % run; there's just no point for such a category to exist any longer. That said, I am happily and patiently waiting for the any% run.
Agreed. Enough with the low% allready : ) I am really excited for the Any% run!
Active player (490)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
I am really excited for the Any% run! We know, you post about it like twice a day.
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
u make it seem like a bad thing.
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
Synx wrote:
u make it seem like a bad thing.
Your excitement is great, but I think we've got the message. Past a certain point, it's no longer a refreshing reminder of an eager audience.
I will not use self-reference in my signature.
Joined: 4/27/2010
Posts: 2
Heh, people think i'm strange because i'm hyped for a speedrun :>
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Do you guys have the WIPs for all the routes you tested? I think it'd be cool to see a comparison video, ultimately proving that one route is faster than an other and also showing entertainment of the other routes.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Player (155)
Joined: 4/7/2008
Posts: 217
No I don't have the m64s anymore =\ but I may make a comparison video of the routes from LW to the potion shop (via Goron City or Hyrule Field) anyway. That sounds like a pretty neat idea. Oh and on another note: AKA and I had initially began the run as coauthors, but now for various reasons I'll be the sole author.
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
Allright, good luck Bloob! *trying to keep most of my excitement to myself as not to upset ppl*
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
Sorry I can't do it lol :D THIS RUN IS GONNA BE SO FUCKING AWESOME!
Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 47
Synx wrote:
Sorry I can't do it lol :D THIS RUN IS GONNA BE SO FUCKING AWESOME!
Is it that hard to not press the "Submit" button?
Joined: 9/20/2008
Posts: 41
Anavrin wrote:
Is it that hard to not press the "Submit" button?
Damn, you just put that dude in CHECK! I bet that he's feeling like a huge idiot right now.
Joined: 3/24/2008
Posts: 35
Location: Toronto
with this handy quick reply function how can you resist?
Gets made fun of for still playing his NES and N64
Joined: 8/23/2007
Posts: 29
good luck bloobieblablub ^^
Player (155)
Joined: 4/7/2008
Posts: 217
Joined: 8/30/2008
Posts: 55
Location: Seattle, WA
awesomeeeeeeeeeeee words cannot express the greatness of this run great job Bloob!!! definitely worth the wait
Joined: 8/18/2009
Posts: 47
Synx will jizz in 3... 2... 1... Awesome run Bloob!
Joined: 2/9/2006
Posts: 124
HOLY SHIT. I didn't even know the run was close to being finished! What the fuck, certainly a pleasant surprise!
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 141
The run is amazing but I'd rather be praising it on the submission page :P
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
I haven't watched the run yet but I was thinking it'd be cool to make a video where all the cut scenes are edited out, and maybe pauses too. It would be kind of like action football where it's just all real gameplay and everything else is edited out.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."