No, those ideas are stupid and moronic. It's a fact. I'm not his mother who has to love everything he says.
I also never said that all his ideas were stupid and moronic, just every idea I have seen of his. Which ofcourse isn't a good sign, since I have seen quite a few. But that is another matter.
I don't think I ever said that he was stupid and moronic. If so that was wrong of me. I have no real evidence to that either way.
But I can objectively say how his ideas, which he expresses in this thread and the last one, are stupid and moronic.
Which btw. isn't even the infuriating part. I can deal with stupid ideas. I frequently have those myself. Sometimes they turn out to be actually helpful, most often they don't.
The infuriating part is that he won't listen to reason. He won't listen when the experts tell him something isn't possible. When Grunz explains to him in great detail why somethign isn't possible or slower, he just ignores it.
All the while he acts like he is percecuted by the evil establishment. Just because people tell him how stupid and moronic his totally unfounded ideas are.
I would not have to be so blunt if he could take a hint.
Still doesn't change the fact that his ideas are stupid and moronic.
I have to know from which trees you can get the nuts and if you can get more than 1 drop from each tree. I hope someone can help me on this.
I can't test immediately, but the 2 groups of trees near ZR/KF give nuts often enough that ZFG tries one of each in his attempts. Only one drop per tree (per hyrule field load) though.
MrGrunz wrote:
We need 80 rupees to buy the Hylian Shield as child
I don't know what (in-game) time it is when you get to market, but the RTS gets there only about 2 seconds before night going through Zora River. Then he waits for the drawbridge to close and can collect all the rupees by walking along the top. If you are that close to night, that will be faster than doing 40 rupees twice by going in and out of the market.
EDIT: why can we only get 40 if the bridge is down? is the last one so far away that we can't reach it quickly even with, say, a diagonal-ish sidehop and jump slash?
I won't TAS a route using Deku Stick on B when it is slower than the traditional route. Despite the fact it would be super entertaining, the controversies it would cause are way too big to make it worth doing, although it is slower.
Couldn't you just TAS OoT using the GCN rom on Mupen? That way we can make a defence that the gitch is supposed to work on that version during the submission process.
is getting the red rupee on zora river under that little land bridge an option?how much faster is the other(the blue rupee way)?are there no tricks like deku jumpslash HESS(is that the name for the swimming version of the waterslide,sorry im not sure) available to go faster on zora river,enabling to speed up the red rupee route?
TAS i'm interested:
megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched
fighting games with speed goals in general
To answer the question whether RBAing them or getting 3 drops is quicker, I have to know from which trees you can get the nuts and if you can get more than 1 drop from each tree. I hope someone can help me on this.
Nuts will not drop from needle trees, but all the leaf trees in hyrule field. You can only get one drop from one tree. Every drop will give you 5 nuts.
(Those trees are fun. They will drop bombs, nuts, rupees, arrows and maybe some other stuff)
The place to get them is: On the way back from lake hylia we slide of a poe. Right next to the poe there is a field of leaf trees.
rog wrote:
The rom on the gc disk does not allow you to use stick on B, so no.
Sorry but that's just not true. I don't know why this rumor is so percistant. All the roms allow stick on B, even 3DS.
Not sure why I wrote "TASer" there, guess I was tired. Don't think anyone can contest his general knowledge of the game and routes, at least.
Anyway, I'm glad we're moving back on-topic. I have never in all my time playing this game seen more than one deku nut drop from trees, and I do like rolling into trees. Nevertheless, I would be surprised if purchasing nuts were faster than trees. Do nuts ever pop out of bushes? I can't remember seeing that, but I never paid much attention to nut drops.
Deku Nut drops would just need to be found at any point up to putting Farore's Wind on B, yes?
Couldn't you just TAS OoT using the GCN rom on Mupen? That way we can make a defence that the gitch is supposed to work on that version during the submission process.
Isn't this discussion what derailed the other OoT thread to the point of it being locked?
The rom on the gc disk does not allow you to use stick on B, so no.
Sorry but that's just not true. I don't know why this rumor is so percistant. All the roms allow stick on B, even 3DS.
He means if you did what Mitjitsu was saying and extracted the Ocarina of Time ROM from the GC ISO (which is basically an emulator on a disc emulating a slightly different version of the game), stick on B would still not work on that ROM on a Nintendo 64 console. It would work on a real GameCube and on Dolphin because the extended memory of that console and that emulator allows Adult Link to get a Deku Stick on B. The trick would still not be possible using the slightly changed ROM from the GC version on a real N64.
I'm glad the route has been mostly decided, and that MrGrunz was able to narrow the questions down to 2 important ones, so the TASers can focus on those and make this great any%!
Don't think that is what he meant. That would not make sense. We were not talking about if something works on a real N64.
The GCN rom will allow you to use stick on B in mupen, just like all the other roms.
Don't think that is what he meant. That would not make sense. We were not talking about if something works on a real N64.
The GCN rom will allow you to use stick on B in mupen, just like all the other roms.
Just like every rom allows you to use gameshark codes to instantly win the game, too.
And yes, ShadowWraith, this is why the other thread was locked, so it seems to me that this is probably not the best place to have this discussion.
I was not talking about if we should do it. I'm not opening that can of worms again. I was just saying, that from a technical perspective, it does work on every rom.
On console it "only" works on GCN, Wii and 3DS. For Wii and GCN also regardless of the rom. It's strictly a hardware problem with the N64 that makes it crash.
is getting the red rupee on zora river under that little land bridge an option?how much faster is the other(the blue rupee way)?are there no tricks like deku jumpslash HESS(is that the name for the swimming version of the waterslide,sorry im not sure) available to go faster on zora river,enabling to speed up the red rupee route?
this is actually a brilliant idea. Getting 20 rupees from either the bridge or the grotto takes something around 8 seconds, whereas getting those 20 will definitely not take that long.
There's a problem, though:
Those 20 rupees are pretty far out of the normal swimming way, so we'd have to skip a lot of swimming where we get 13 rupees on the way just to reach those 20. I'll test tomorrow if I can find a nice way to collect both those 13 rupees and the red rupee ;)
We could do lots of slides, if we had the sword like shown here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86GDhxOzHDI
But like I said already, getting the deku stick instead of the sword is definitely quicker. The sword simply takes way too long to get.
WTH! the rupee was just right beside you in the video(0:26),it only takes seconds to get there,is the problem actually slidin right after?if you dont have the sword ,you are not losing much time by collecting the red rupee after those 13,you just swim agains the current but if you have sword/stick to slide,then it is a major bummer.
also,you could buy 1 more deku stick?(i dont really know where do you get yours from)
TAS i'm interested:
megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched
fighting games with speed goals in general
Stick costs 10r at the KF shop. If getting another 10r saves takes less time than what you'd save with one of those ZR HESSes, then it might be worth buying. But I doubt getting another 10r before the shop visit could be done so quickly.
I know you've already dismissed the other items, but you're going to be collecting sticks anyway, and perhaps there's a fairy close to the path somewhere, maybe in DC? Couldn't you then RBA your stick amount and get FW using those? Sorry for my limited understanding of RBA.
Problem with sticks is that you can not use them as adault. So you can't break them.
The lowest amount of sticks you can RBA is 20. But only 13 will give you Farores wind. So you see the dilemma here.
Are we sure there isn't a way to kill KD or finish forest temple with FW on B, such as hammer or skip to warp in forest temple as child? And can you use forest temple instead of DC? Can you get FW on B as child?
The 6 trees in the NW corner of the map by the river all drop nuts, there's also 6 trees in the south that can drop nuts, they are all in the west half of the group, I can show exactly which ones on a map.
Using the deku stick to HESS to market from KV saves about 5s, if you were thinking of buying an extra for 10r extra. You can also get 5r drops from certain trees.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Another stick is out of question, the extra 10 rupees are simply way too far out of the way.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Are we sure there isn't a way to kill KD or finish forest temple with FW on B, such as hammer or skip to warp in forest temple as child? And can you use forest temple instead of DC? Can you get FW on B as child?
We can use either Deku tree, Dodongo's Cavern or Fire Temple. Forest Temple and all other temples don't allow any Wrong Warp glitches.
Fire Temple can only be beaten with the Megaton Hammer (Volvagia can't be beaten without it) and there's no item in the whole game that takes as long to get as the hammer. So getting hammer to either beat Fire Temple or any other boss with FW on B is definitely slower.
Gohma can only be hit with a Deku Stick and one of the Swords. Deku Stick can't be used as Adult and having FW on B also makes it impossible to use any of the swords. And yes, all items including bombs, Light Arrows etc. have been tested.
Same thing for King Dodongo. He doesn't die if you don't hit him with a sword or a stick at least one time.
And think about your suggestion, Spider-Waffle! If there was a way to get FW on B as child it would definitely be quickest and we'd be using it for a while now. So no, there's no way. BA doesn't work for Child Link, because the Kokiri Sword is automatically equipped to the B button when you get child again after being Adult Link. In fact, it is even put on to your B button without having the Kokiri Sword ;)
then...just do deku tree first?get the sword,shield(or is there some glitch to get past mido like unloading deku tree to escape the cutscene), deku tree boss(with mega flips or skulttula clip whatever),save warp, escape,and proceed.
also what stops us beating the game as child?i could swear there was a WW without farore..won't it put us in the same cutscenes?
where is the route? i dont wanna spill nonsense all the time..
TAS i'm interested:
megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched
fighting games with speed goals in general
The normal Death Wrong Warps like shown give you one specific warp. None of the 3 possible Death Wrong Warp (Deku Tree, Fire Temple, Dodongo's Cavern) warps you to the credits.
And what would the point of beating Deku Tree as child be? You'd still get the same result as before:
We beat the boss of a temple to later return with Farore's Wind on B to do the final warp.
Doing the Deku Tree as child would take way longer than doing DC as Adult. You'd have to watch the Deku Tree CS and all that stuff and the temple itself is also not faster than DC as Adult. Other than that returning to Deku Tree after getting Farore's Wind on B is way slower than going to Dododngo's Cavern.
totally offtopic stuff so ill be speedy on this suggestion: i also lurk SRK forums(for fighting games) and they make sure the first posts of the threads are filled with current info about the characters or games,so people don't have to search the whole thread for the current data on the game.is it possible for us to use that format also?
BTW,what are you buying besides the hylian shield?if nothing,get it from the grave...
now if you excuse me i will search for the route on the forum thread
TAS i'm interested:
megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched
fighting games with speed goals in general
Yeah we are totally going to the graveyard just to get the shield...
Sombeody could put a link to ZSR into the first post. All the info about this game would be way too much.
The fighting game community revolves around a constantly changing metagame, has a larger following, and more or less demands that players keep up with it in order to stay on top of their game. The type of relevant information is always consistent and easily relayed.
Speed tricks and routes for Zelda games, by comparison, require a lot of induction, math, and testing. More specifically, breakthroughs in route planning are discovered most often by the same few members of a smaller community. Thus it's never been as practical for those people to make game route planning super transparent for newcomers to the scene. You also have to consider that doing so requires a lot of discussion and reasoning, and would be a lot more to ask of the same small group. Again, evolution in fighting game meta happens often and spreads by experience, whereas change here is usually theory first, then testing.
This is a long way of saying I wouldn't expect that convenience to become normal for TAS/speed run planning. It's more work both in testing and posting, and there's less people to do that work, and less people who need to know that information in the first place. Not a bad suggestion and if someone with intimate knowledge of the game wants to there's nothing stopping them, but that approach generally doesn't lend itself to non-competitive gaming communities as well.
My 2c.
