Again, it's better if 100% is defined as actually getting the items legit as opposed to glitching out your inventory for the same effect. This ensures a large portion of the game will still be played regardless of how many glitches get discovered over time, and that's what people want to see.
Again, it's better if 100% is defined as actually getting the items legit as opposed to glitching out your inventory for the same effect. This ensures a large portion of the game will still be played regardless of how many glitches get discovered over time, and that's what people want to see.
Which still doesn't explain why rba should be banned.
The reasoning goes like this: Imagine if a new glitch was discovered, called super-RBA. Super-RBA puts everything in the game into your inventory. 100% now consists of the any% route with a short detour to do super-RBA. Is it interesting?
The reasoning goes like this: Imagine if a new glitch was discovered, called super-RBA. Super-RBA puts everything in the game into your inventory. 100% now consists of the any% route with a short detour to do super-RBA. Is it interesting?
You don't seem to understand.
We can define the goal in a way that requires getting every item in a legitimate way. This would prevent someone from just using rba (or super-rba) to get everything, without banning rba.
Now, assuming we do that, what reason is there to ban still rba? Having infinite bombchus does not detract from the entertainment at all. Surely, most here would agree that it would even make it more entertaining. So, if it can't be used to obtain items without actually collecting them, what is the problem? Because that would probably be the only use left for it, except possibly to get some item early (which would still require getting it normally later).
But we aren't. :D
Forcing all the items to be collected by conventional means doesn't make sense.
If you want to ban a glitch for this category, fine. But don't micromanage how the full inventory is obtained.
Also like I said, RBA wouldn't be used much for the inventory. "Super-RBA" is just a crazy hypothetical, that will never happen. If it does, we can still ban it.
Btw. do you need the Claim Check at the end of the game or is the Biggoron Sword enough?
I would say yes, because that particular quest isn't complete until the adult trade item is the claim check. You can't get BGS without it, anyway.
But you can overwrite the claim check after you have gotten the BGS and that would probably cut about 15 minutes off the run.
But alas, it's not allowed in 100%.
Explain in detail? Are you referring to something that could be done through RBA?
I'd like every item to be obtained legitimately (see, for instance, Metroid Prime 2, where you can skip one item by glitching the percentage counter, and that's enough to completely change the route). I don't have any objections to using RBA to glitch the legitimately collected items out of your inventory and then back into it again. (The file should probably finish up at 100%.) I don't object to using it to restock on bombchus either.
We're handling this completely wrong. Right now we are discussing more or less on the base of which tricks should be allowed to be use and which tricks shouldn't.
Let's try it a different way:
We travel back in time to the year 2005, when there were barely any glitches for this game. Now we should try find an appropriate way to define 100% on this base and nothing else. Even without paying attention to the entertainment value, simply find a way that makes sense in every way.
After this has been successfully done, have a look at all glitches again and try to see if it really makes sense to ban any of them, but for this you first need a perfect definition, which has to be based on more or less glitchless terms. The only reason we have to do this discussion right now is because nobody did a TAS of it back then and set the basic rules.
I'm a nobody in the Zelda scene, but when I'm reading 100% category, I'm thinking about a run which would complete the game to a point where there's NOTHING else left to do.
- All piece of heart collected
- All items and upgrades collected (including tunics, shields and other items not required to beat the game)
- All Gold Skulltulas killed
- All sidequest completed (including the Gold Skulltulas one)
- All songs
- All stones and medaillons acquired
- All great fairies found
- Get Epona
- All Boss killed (?)
And maybe do all the minigames which doesn't give any reward, if they are such minigames :p
I guess I put too much stuff in this list, but that's 100% ^^
Another thing i think should be considered is upgrade items which are later overwritten, such as goron bracelet, silver scale, etc. Real time runners skip these, but i'm not sure if that is really right. Of course this raises the question of whether we can sequence break the trading quest, or if we need to get each item at some point. Which i don't really want to require... I'm not sure what i think about this.
As for defining the goal, i think it we should just get every unique item through some means, no matter what that is.
I disagree with STBM. I do not think we should complete everything there is to complete, but rather obtain everything there is to obtain. That means bosses can be skipped, epona can be skipped, any rewardless sidequests can be skipped (including the gold skulltula quest, though obviously the skulltulas still need all be obtained), etc.
Another thing i think should be considered is upgrade items which are later overwritten, such as goron bracelet, silver scale, etc. Real time runners skip these, but i'm not sure if that is really right. Of course this raises the question of whether we can sequence break the trading quest, or if we need to get each item at some point. Which i don't really want to require... I'm not sure what i think about this.
In my opinion, completing the quest is the main goal, from that you can sequence break if you want to, that won't change the result which is the main point.
As for defining the goal, i think it we should just get every unique item through some means, no matter what that is.
I disagree with STBM. I do not think we should complete everything there is to complete, but rather obtain everything there is to obtain. That means bosses can be skipped, epona can be skipped, any rewardless sidequests can be skipped (including the gold skulltula quest, though obviously the skulltulas still need all be obtained), etc.
Yeah, I though about this other point of view but can you say you completed the game at 100% if you didn't even finish all the sidequest like the gold skulltula ?
Does getting all the items complete the game at 100% ?
Even if I agree that an all-item run would be great as a 100%, it would really only be a 85%.
How do the other games deal with 100% ? Full completion or do they also accept to not do some stuff ?
Meh, I'm fine with an all item definition of 100%.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I think every item in your repository should be maxed out. Like getting the biggest bomb bag, quiver, slingshot, all skulltulas and I definitely think we should get Epona. What is the argument of not getting an important object like your horse? Just because Epona's head is not displayed in your repository does not mean we should not get Epona. I also vote for doing the sidequests that are related to your abilities. I don't remember all sidequests so I am not sure if there are any sidequests that are completely useless.
In general, I think it's much much easier to discuss what constitutes a 100% tas of Ocarina of Time than restricting ourselves with what we shouldn't be getting.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
What is the argument of not getting an important object like your horse?
She isn't an item.
andypanther wrote:
Epona can't be skipped, you need her for a heart piece and a quiver upgrade.
She can't currently be skipped, you mean. That doesn't mean there won't be a way in the future to skip her, or to lose her after getting her. We may not need an answer right now, but there's still value in deciding on what exactly constitutes 100%.
What is the argument of not getting an important object like your horse?
She isn't an item.
andypanther wrote:
Epona can't be skipped, you need her for a heart piece and a quiver upgrade.
She can't currently be skipped, you mean. That doesn't mean there won't be a way in the future to skip her, or to lose her after getting her. We may not need an answer right now, but there's still value in deciding on what exactly constitutes 100%.
Well, if she could be skipped completely, getting her wouldn't contribute much to the TAS. It would just be: "Hover over the fence in LLR, watch Epona cutscene, get off her".
Although there are the big poes, while they can be gotten without Epona, it would probably be slower.
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
RachelB wrote:
What is the argument of not getting an important object like your horse?
She isn't an item.
I think that is a poor argument. Like I said, just because she isn't an item does not mean she shouldn't be obtained. My definition of a 100% run in general is to collect things which helps your abilitiy and belongs to your repository. Epona certainly helps your ability to travel faster.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
