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Posted: 5/20/2006 8:32 PM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
After some testing, Dacicus seemed fairly confident you can't light both eyes with a single chu. But I thought the problem was averted with Acryte's new trick to enter the great fairy fountain without a bomb? I am confused now because I thought the problem was solved yet mwl sounds worried again.
Posted: 5/20/2006 8:38 PM
(Edited: 5/20/2006 8:44 PM)
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Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User, Experienced player (532)
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
I personally think that detouring to get the bean after Spirit and planting it after Dondongo, or heading for Kakariko and cucco diving would be your best option. I'm fairly confident that both Dondongo's eyes can't be lit at the same time as I've tried hand placing bombs and bombchus, its not possible either to bomb both boulders at once in Death Mountain as I've levatated inbeteen them. The power crouch conserving from the armos and carrying onto the Iron Knuckle is a theory, but highly likely that it'll work; unless equipping a deku stick cancels it out. Getting bombs would not be worthwhile, although there is no way your ever gonna complete the game with just 10 bombchu's. I tested it and it roughly takes 2 mins to dive into the well and climb out, either by boundary or cutscene method, it may be worth testing out the time saved by ground jumps and by getting the bombs in Dondongo complared to diving into the well. Edit: I worked out that 9 bombchu's are required for Child Link and 7 for Adult and the extra to get the extra 10 means that 17 are required and thats not even considering the boulders in Zora's river or rock at Great Fairy Fountain.
Posted: 5/20/2006 8:39 PM
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GuanoBowl
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
Well I can enter the fountain with no bomb, which helped out in the first place, now if the eyes can be lit with 1, then we are good to go!
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Posted: 5/20/2006 8:40 PM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Wait, what, you were down by two?
Posted: 5/20/2006 9:09 PM
(Edited: 5/20/2006 9:32 PM)
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mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
AKA, list the Bombchus, please. I have 1. Spirit Temple - Let light in on second floor (1-14) 2. Hyrule Castle - Skip over moat (2-5) 3. Jabu-Jabu - Damage boost to boss antechamber (2-13) 4. Lost Woods - Open warp to Goron City (2-19) 5. Dodongo's Cavern - Light right eye (2-22) 6. Dodongo's Cavern - Light left eye (2-22) **CAN'T DO BOTH AT ONCE 7. Dodongo's Cavern - Open boss chamber (2-22) 8. Death Mountain Trail - Remove boulder (2-23) 9. Death Mountain Trail - Remove boulder (2-23) **CAN'T DO BOTH AT ONCE 10. Bottom of the Well - Blow open crack for more Bombchus (2-27) (11.) Zora's River - Remove boulders
Posted: 5/20/2006 9:11 PM
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GuanoBowl
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
xebra wrote:
Wait, what, you were down by two?
Heres what I meant: Before it was discovered, I would have had to use a bomb to get into the fountain, but now with the new trick, I dont need a bomb and can therefore save one for later, plus, if I can light the eyes with 1, that would save me another.
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Posted: 5/20/2006 9:35 PM
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mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
I suppose you could use cheat codes (Project64 supports them), make a save state in Dodongo's, and see if you can pull off the eye-lighting trick with one 'chu. AKA and others have said it's not likely, but then again they didn't use save states and make hundreds or thousands of attempts.
Posted: 5/20/2006 9:46 PM
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GuanoBowl
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
what would trigger them to both light up?
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Posted: 5/20/2006 10:44 PM
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Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User, Experienced player (532)
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
Ok here's the list of bombchu's Child 1: Spirit 1: Beamos 1. Moat outside Hyrule 1. Boulders at Goron city 2. Dondongo's eyes 1. Boss floor at Dondongo 2. Boulders at death mountain 1. Great Fairy 1. Boulders at Zora's river 2. Platform boost in Jabu 1. Getting more bombcu's from well Adult (nothing here is really skipable) 1. Shadow early boost 2. Blowing two rock structures in Shadow 1. Backflip hover boost in Shadow (Acryte's video) 1. Mega jump in Forest to skip using key 1. For beamos in Adult Spirit 1. For rock structure at the end of Spirit Technically you could use 16 bombchu's or even less if you took longer more awkward routes e.g. skipping boulders in Goron City or not doing moat skip, but it would sacrifice a lot of time. The ones that are optionally skippable are in bold.
Posted: 5/20/2006 10:50 PM
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mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
How do you skip boulders at Zora's River (other than not going through there in the route)?
Posted: 5/20/2006 11:00 PM
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Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User, Experienced player (532)
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
It may be worth getting FW as a child and getting bombs as an Adult as it takes less than 2 mins to get them as an Adult due to Links extended reach througout the dungeon, he can even skip the second lizardoz battle, its worth considering espeacially as time can be made up by ground jumping and with the warping of FW in Shadow although now I say it, it might not be worth getting FW. I still think its worth considering getting bombs as an Adult and skipping the well as a child.
Posted: 5/20/2006 11:56 PM
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mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
... No. This is a TAS. All bombchus are released at a 100% success rate. There is absolutely ZERO need for either bombs or FW.
Posted: 5/21/2006 1:25 AM
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GuanoBowl
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
So what I am getting is the initial plan is to get the Magic Beans for 10 Rupees which I have 22 Rupees left and should I go to the castle next? Is there a way to skip the owl dialouge by Hyrule Castle?
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Posted: 5/21/2006 2:44 AM
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mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Well, don't buy the bean unless you're sure you can light both Dodongo eyes with one 'chu. Otherwise you'll be short, and that will lead to nastier complications. I don't know of any way to skip the owl dialogue. Try backwalking towards the vine you have to climb. If the owl still appears there probably is no way out. Later, you'll need to seamwalk and perform a bombchu boost as shown in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhnVrDm2Yug Damn it. I'm quite positive that had my original route been followed (Lake Hylia first, then Gerudo Valley), none of this would be an issue right now. Then, someone made a convincing argument that Gerudo first would be faster, and now we're stuck with this damn day/night problem.
Posted: 5/21/2006 2:47 AM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Well, it's just a test run ...
Posted: 5/21/2006 2:50 AM
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mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
What's been done so far is definitely good enough to be published
Posted: 5/21/2006 2:51 AM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
True, but that's just because GuanoBowl is a pimp in ninja's clothing. The intent was just to see what could be done, and to find unforseen problems.
Posted: 5/21/2006 2:58 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
And we're finding plenty of unforeseen problems, so the plan is working perfectly!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 5/21/2006 4:57 AM
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CoolBumpty
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
Well, just as a note, I've tried about 100 times to light up both eyes at once using savestates. I doubt I got up to 150 tries, though. But it seemed like it was possible to get a bombchu right in between the two eyes, and neither would light up, but I wasn't sure since the camera angle didn't allow me to see what was really going on. But I don't know, it may be possible.
Posted: 5/22/2006 3:51 AM
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GuanoBowl
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
hey guys, I am feeling like crap from the Flu or some virus. I have not done anything today but I am by the castle entrance about to talk to the owl (hopefully he can be skipped but I doubt it...When Ive tried many ways around it but it looks like I wont get around it.
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Posted: 5/22/2006 5:24 AM
(Edited: 5/22/2006 7:22 AM)
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mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
I'm sorry and hope you get better soon. I don't think the owl can be skipped. I tried on emulator many times. New proposal: Forest -> Lake Hylia -> Jabu-Jabu -> Sacred Forest Meadow SAVEWARP Forest -> Hyrule Castle SAVEWARP Forest -> Lost Woods -> Goron City -> Dodongo's Cavern, etc. I think this will cost the least amount of time, and you skip a stupid owl dialogue, too. I just tested it out myself by walking to Lake Hylia, going to the Fishing Pond, getting the bottle, entering Zora's Domain, savewarping, and walking from the forest to Hyrule Castle. It works, i.e. you arrive at Hyrule Castle just before nightfall. However, I'm assuming that time remains still in Zora's Domain, Jabu-Jabu, and the Lost Woods. If anyone has seen evidence that suggests otherwise, please speak up.
Posted: 5/22/2006 6:08 AM
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mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
By the way, the Requiem of Spirit can be played MUCH faster.
Posted: 5/22/2006 6:19 AM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
You can't rush a melody like that, mwl. It's just not right.
Posted: 5/22/2006 6:45 AM
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CoolBumpty
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
If I remember correctly, it was mentioned that you can't beat Dodongo nor Jabu Jabu before talking to Zelda. You can only get the Lullaby by going to her before getting the gem from either of those dungeons. But I haven't tested it myself.
Posted: 5/22/2006 7:11 AM
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mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
You are incorrect. The exact trigger that "locks" the path to the castle courtyard is the Ganondorf/OoT cutscene. I used the levitation cheat in Project64, on a save file with all three stones, to enter the market and Hyrule Castle without triggering the cutscene. The courtyard was not blocked off by the pair of guards, and the Lullaby could be obtained just fine. I then tried again after triggering the cutscene, and the path was blocked off. Even then, if you levitate over the pair of guards you can still get the Lullaby. This also means that if you can find a way into the castle without triggering the cutscene, you can save getting the Lullaby for on your way down from Death Mountain Trail. But this is very unlikely. And xebra, I hope you are not serious. This is a speedrun. Songs can be played so quickly on emulator that they almost sound like blurs.
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