Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
Done with Forest and I am thinking that the 2nd key should have been done in the "hand" room. Could have saved 5 seconds or so. http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=59173AC072755404 Save state after Shadow Temple Enjoy.
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Argh. That's what I kept telling the other SDA folks, but they kept suggesting the contrary. AKA said the entry courtyard key was faster since you could hookshot the vines and hover, but really there was no solid proof. I don't have time to watch your run right now (will do in about 4-5 hours--comments pending). Did you get the key from the Floormaster? If that's faster, you should have gone with that instead of using the route I posted, as I specifically said you should use your own judgment on this one.
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
Ah its okay. My mistakes will be corrected in the next run.
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Joined: 6/1/2006
Posts: 64
Shouldn't this have been used for pushing the blocks?
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
GuanoBowl wrote:
Ah its okay. My mistakes will be corrected in the next run.
Next run, as in a revision of what you just did? Or starting completely over when you've finished the current one? If it's the latter, I think we should really start looking at the TAS revisions link MWL has in his sig. It's looking pretty bare. I'll watch the current WIP when I got off work. I'm sure it will be quality material.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Joined: 3/29/2006
Posts: 273
Location: Sweden
Good job, GuanoBowl. Everything was perfect, besides one thing: the block section in forest. Didn't anyone tell you that you can use the ground jump to get ontop of those blocks, saving a lot of time? Also, you should use the so called "soft block pushing/pulling" when pushing or pulling a block (or armos).
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646
I too was wondering about the lack of ground jumps to the blocks there. I figured it was just a bomb rationing thing though. Anyway, here a torrent of the newest section: http://nrg.gotdns.com/etc/forest.avi.torrent (edit: this starts from the appearance in the graveyard, like the provided savestate. the chatter from the chamber of sages after beating the shadow temple is not included, but that's boring anyway. contrary to the previous video, the heart container wasn't taken.)
I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
ahhhh shit... forgot about the ground jumps. Will do it for the next time around :(
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
On the way to SFM, it looked like there were some relatively long, straight sections where you could have used the super-slide to your advantage. Did you try a couple and see if they were faster? I could be wrong. I just found out by accident that if you hookshot the tree branch near the top, as high as you can, you'll land on top of it (which of course, isn't a stable surface) and just slide into the temple easily without having to turn around and backwalk in like you did. Should save about a second or two. Thanks for getting the Deku Nuts without my reminder. You'll need at least 10 nuts for Ganon, and you have more than enough now. I liked how you hit at least one of the Stalfos while it was in the air. You'll be doing this again in the Ganondorf battle. Block-pushing room. Yes, you should have used soft-block pushing. I realize that I mentioned it a long time ago and I didn't expect you to remember (heck, even I forgot to include it in the instructions I posted for this dungeon). In the room with the wallmaster, did you find that climbing the ledge was faster than using the middle pillar as a stepping stone? I just did that room again and I thought climbing the ledge was faster. If indeed I'm right, you can thank AKA for the other suggestion. >=P
Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377
it seems that you left your hower-boots equipped longer than needed. Should be avoided, as they slow you down. other than that, looking good to me. (thx NrgSpoon for the updated avis, I'll continue to seed them)
m00
Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann
but the start-button loading time (white screen) sucks i think.. it wastes much time ..
Active player (308)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
evilchen wrote:
but the start-button loading time (white screen) sucks i think.. it wastes much time ..
The only way to avoid that is by using a Gameshark code.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
http://www.gannon-banned.com/ Possibly the most ignorant site I have come across GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON GANNON!!!!!!!!!!!!
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
Nice Stalfos battles, and ocarina playing! :) Quick comment: Is it faster to save-warp (or deathwarp) to Links's house directly after exiting the shadow temple? You would then skip the death mountain and goron city intro scene, not to mention the trek in between. Deathwarping would put you a stones-throw away from the Lost Woods. Even with the reset delay, it really seems to be faster.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
Ahh, good ?. I thought of this too and found out that you will enter the Temple of Time, where you first started off as an Adult.
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
GuanoBowl wrote:
Ahh, good ?. I thought of this too and found out that you will enter the Temple of Time, where you first started off as an Adult.
Shiggity Wiggity Shit. Hmm... How fast would you be able to do Forest temple as a kid, after Dodongo's cavern (to do the hover glitch with bombs)? You'd skip the Minuet cutscene, and the whole journey to the Forest temple (minus the meadow). In a normal speedrun, I'd say it's slower. In a TAS, it might be faster. The part that bothers me the most is how to push the huge blocks. But then we'd use ground jumps, right? And then killing the stalfos, and not using the hookshot would take a bit longer too.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
Well after this run, there will be a good month or so for planning on the improved route. I have many ideas which to throw in like skipping the Sliver Gauntlets and saving a bombchu when you get the 1st chest by dying and continue from Links House.
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646
Um... you'd skip the Minuet cutscene, but you'd get the Saria cutscene instead. That IS where you learn Saria's song, isn't it?
I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
NrgSpoon wrote:
Um... you'd skip the Minuet cutscene, but you'd get the Saria cutscene instead. That IS where you learn Saria's song, isn't it?
Unless you can hover to skip that cutscene ;). It doesn't start till you get close to her, right? Or you could do some boundary glitch somewhere. I believe it's possible. Or you could find the solution to all our problems, and find a way to get out of LW w/out collecting Saria's cutscene. But that would require glitching through Mido. Which we cannot accomplish.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Forest Temple as a kid is definitely not faster. It takes over a minute for the series of bomb-backflips to get up to the entrance, when a hookshot could accomplish the same task in five seconds. You can apply similar reasoning to doing Shadow early. The idea of doing ANY adult dungeon early is therefore dismissed given our currently-available tricks. I thought of doing it a long time ago, and quickly realized that it wouln't be beneficial at all. Besides, Spirit cannot be completed as a child by any means, so if part of the plan was skipping that Shiek dialogue in the Temple of Time, I'm afraid it's quite unlikely at this point.
Well after this run, there will be a good month or so for planning on the improved route. I have many ideas which to throw in like skipping the Sliver Gauntlets and saving a bombchu when you get the 1st chest by dying and continue from Links House.
All already thought of =P I've been trying to plan out the next route for about a week now, and what's really annoying is that there seems to be no elegant way to string everything together. What I really like about the current route is the linear LH -> J-J -> LW -> GC -> DC -> KV -> ToT path--each successive destination is close to the previous one and there's no backtracking at all. If you skip the SG and get the bomb bag, you'll have to do a lot of extra traveling, and the day/night cycle troubles will (shudder) make a return. As I said, I really recommend letting a good few months pass before you make an updated run. I'm confident that an impressive-looking and undoubtedly faster route will be out by the end of the year.
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
I see... Another idea that I have is to use death warps to our advantage. What if we had reached Jabu Jabu at 6am, gotten the boomerang, and then save/death-warped out of the dungeon. We could then make our way to Hyrule Castle, without fear of time... I mean if it's faster to deathwarp in a dungeon, and we have time dependent things (Requiem cutscene, Jabu Jabu Spiritual stone, Dodongo Spiritual Stone), we should use the deathwarp to our advantage. We had timing problems in getting to HC, right? If we had deathwarped in a dungeon (e.g. Jabu Jabu), we could have backtracked to HC, gotten the lullaby, and resumed the dungeon. It might be faster overall, esp. if it's advantagous to warp in a dungeon.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Spirit Temple - The last full dungeon. Can you believe it? TSA does a very good job on this dungeon in his 4h 57m run, and you should emulate it as closely as possible except where noted below: Official walkthrough: http://www.zelda.com/ocarina/pdf_files/12_spirit_adult_ocarina.pdf SC 1 - This trick *might* be faster than pushing the block (~12"), but it requires a stored ground jump, so I don't know. Time it out and see. SC 2 - Ceiling switch SC 4 - Five Silver Rupees. Just emulate what TSA does. Reminder: All climbable surfaces in Spirit can be hookshotted. SC 5 - Hookshot the climbable wall. SC 6 - Mirror-turning SC 7 - Obviously, your hookshot won't be long enough to reach the chest on the other hand, so use your hover boots. Also, instead of longshotting the torch on the third floor, you're going to have to aim for a hookshot target that's right below it. SC 9 - You'll have to push the switch to kill the Anubis, as you have no fire arrows or Din's Fire... SC 10 - Get an Armos to stop on the blue switch. SC 11 - Iron knuckle skip. It may turn out to be unusable because the iron bars would remain when you return. In any case, just try it out to see if it works--if not, then just defeat the enemy using regular methods. SC 12 - "Let it shine!" SC 13 - Use your Hookshot to reach the fourth floor. SC 14 - Play the Ocarina one last time, and make it your best. :) To get the boss key, step in front of the flames and press A. No damage boost is needed, but timing is crucial. SC 15-19 - Straightforward mirror manipulation. Your crouch stab should be preserved up to the "boss" Iron Knuckle (she has 40 HP instead of 30, so don't be alarmed if it takes 10 hits instead of the usual 8...but if it takes more than ten, something's wrong!) BOSS - I strongly believe using Z-targeting on the witches in the first phase is faster than aiming the fire/ice streams yourself. Just try it out and see. Use luck manipulation for the witches to put themselves in optimal positions. In the second phase, stand as close to Twinrova as possible on the third spell. Press A as you jump over to the boss (with Z-target on) and follow up with five crouching stabs. One cycle is easily doable even in an unassisted run. === 2h 40m by TAS timing conventions (power-on to final input) is a certainty based on times extracted from TSA's run. If we were to tack on TSA's work following Forest, we'd end up with around 2h 41m. A 2h 30m based on SDA timing (Link's house to final blow on Ganon) would be a good goal to strive for. Good luck!
mwl
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
DK64_MASTER wrote:
What if we had reached Jabu Jabu at 6am, gotten the boomerang, and then save/death-warped out of the dungeon. We could then make our way to Hyrule Castle, without fear of time...
And you wouldn't want to do this because (1) you don't have FW, and (2) it takes quite some time to travel up and down Zora's Domain Nice try, though. I thought of it myself. In any case, the next run can use a super-slide in Lake Hylia (triggered by a Tektite) to reach the owl really quickly. This way, one can do Hyrule Castle after Jabu and still make it in time, saving one trek across Hyrule and one brief owl dialogue in the Lost Woods.
Joined: 3/29/2006
Posts: 273
Location: Sweden
mwl wrote:
SC 1 - This trick *might* be faster than pushing the block (~12"), but it requires a stored ground jump, so I don't know. Time it out and see.
No no no. You can do it easily without a ground jump, check Acryte's and Kazooie's vids.
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
mwl wrote:
DK64_MASTER wrote:
What if we had reached Jabu Jabu at 6am, gotten the boomerang, and then save/death-warped out of the dungeon. We could then make our way to Hyrule Castle, without fear of time...
And you wouldn't want to do this because (1) you don't have FW, and (2) it takes quite some time to travel up and down Zora's Domain Nice try, though. I thought of it myself. In any case, the next run can use a super-slide in Lake Hylia (triggered by a Tektite) to reach the owl really quickly. This way, one can do Hyrule Castle after Jabu and still make it in time, saving one trek across Hyrule and one brief owl dialogue in the Lost Woods.
Good:). Hopefully our "new" way of travelling will eliminate all of the close calls we have had.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~