...and also prevent you later from thinking "Well, I should improve it again, since it's emulated correctly now."
Isn't that a good thing? If the author wants to improve his run just because of this reason, good for him/her. Sure it might be a headache, but a run has gotta be improved eventually, either in speed, or in this case, quality.
GB probably won't improve his v2 run, if it is quite perfect just because it emulates better. My reasoning is: If there ever is a version 3, after a GREAT version 2, it will most likely be because of a better route or a new trick that has been discovered.
JXQ,
I've suggested the exact same thing to Guano, but it's his decision on when he wants to redo his run.
I'd estimate that currently there are no more than ten minutes to be saved from possible corrections and newly-discovered tricks. The bomb bag and King Zora skip saves at most five minutes, if not less due to all the extra traveling that will need to be done and the possible day/night cycle issues that will need to be resolved; the Deku Tree shortcut on floor B1 saves exactly one minute; and it's likely that the imperfections from the entire run would add up to more than four minutes. If the subscreen delay were removed, we'd be able to squeeze another 2-3 minutes, but so far there seems to have been zero progress in fixing that.
Research is still ongoing: Kazooie suggested a version-specific trick that could possibly allow one to skip all adult dungeons, and AKA will return from his vacation in a few days. TSA said he would reveal how he got <48" on the Dampe race (no hookshot) when he reaches that point in his segmented run. I was right originally--the super slide trick could be used and thus the race in the current WIP is not optimal.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
mwl wrote:
(...)a version-specific trick that could possibly allow one to skip all adult dungeons(...)
A lazy dude is curious about that. Could you clarify?
Plus, about the subscreen delay, there's a gameshark code for that, so, maybe it's possible to fix the rom with a patch...?
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
AKA posted about it many, many pages ago.
The thing is that it's version-specific, and hence only works on v1.0
1. Beat all child dungeons.
2. Then do shadow early and get hover boots
3. Beat forest temple with hover boots
4. Go to fishing pond and steal rod with hover boots
5. Go to lon lon ranch and pay to ingo for ride and hop on horse and then get down and now you have deku stick on b button
6. Then do bottle b glitch with nayru's love on you right c button and then go to child.
7. As child equip bottled fish to your right c button as child and remember you must have 18 deku nuts.
8. Then go to adult and you have light arrow on your b button and doGanon early and beat ganon with light arrow and then equip master swordand beat final part of ganon.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
oh, yeah.. the bottle glitch...
That would be interesting too.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
I was taking a look at the white screen when the inventory is selected. If you want, I can probably remove it almost flawlessly from the final AVI. I will practice around with it on my editor, but I wonder if it would be accepted.
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 12
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
i think someone said earlier that during the white screen the music is still playing so if it were removed it would be obvious that something was missing from the final .avi
also i'm not sure if anyone knows about this glitch or not
http://www.jaytheham.com/zc/oot.php?page=ootmc135
i discovered it a few years ago and submitted it to a user on gameFAQs who gave me credit on his website
i doubt it will save anytime but the fact that the fisherman gives you a quest item you're not supposed to receive makes me curious if its possible to get somthing different that would come in handy.
Actually, that trick is used in Guano's run.
I haven't had time to look at the Spirit Temple part yet. I will soon, hopefully. Though I doubt I can do much to help, especially since you seem to want to just speed through everything, Guano. =P Not that it's a completely bad thing. ;)
Spirit temple, as well as everything in the run minus child gerudo and colossus runs fantastically. Keep up the great work.
For those of you wanting to make avis but the white screen bothers you a lot, there is a solution that doesn't change the framecount or the audio sync. I don't know if you plan on using avisynth for the final encode after a lossless capture or whatever, but if you do, the internal filter FreezeFrame() lets you repeat the last good frame until the pause menu loads.For example, if the pause whitescreen is from frame 10000 to 10200 inclusive, then you do FreezeFrame(videoclip, 10001, 10201, 10000)
The arguments are simply "clip to modify" "first frame to replace" "last frame to replace" "frame to replace that range with".
Also N64 movie framerates in the faq aren't mentioned. Since OoT uses only one third of the available frames except for the n64 logo spin and name input screen, would it be acceptable to use "Decimate(3).Decimate(2)" Which would get rid of one duplicate frame every 3rd (60->40) and then one every 2nd (40->20). This would avoid having each frame shown 3 times and give better compression no matter what codec. Downside (negligeable given the overall superior compressibility) is choppy N64 logo the first second and choppy file screen when he creates the game and then restarting after a gameover. total: 4 seconds of choppiness
edit: and yeah he uses the gold scale early trick in the run.
Isn't that a good thing? If the author wants to improve his run just because of this reason, good for him/her. Sure it might be a headache, but a run has gotta be improved eventually, either in speed, or in this case, quality.
GB probably won't improve his v2 run, if it is quite perfect just because it emulates better. My reasoning is: If there ever is a version 3, after a GREAT version 2, it will most likely be because of a better route or a new trick that has been discovered.
People get burned out on doing TASs after a while. When, it's impossible to say, as it varies from person to person. But my suggestion is aiming to benefit everyone.
I'm offering suggestions that minimize work on the runner while maximizing the possible end product for the viewer. But all anyone around here sees is "HOLY FUCK ITS ZELDA QUICK RUN IT IMMEDIATELY EVEN IF THE EMULATION BLOWS (which is bad for the viewer) AND GUANOBOWL HAS TO DO IT TEN TIMES TO AVOID A DESYNC (which is bad for the runner)!!" Do you really think that having to run the same segment several times because of emulator desync problems doesn't make it less likely that an improved version right around the corner by the same author? We are humans.
Most people don't have the patience to realize the end result would be equally as good or better with this idea, they just see that they may not get it as soon. They're so blind to it that the only reason I'm suggesting what I am MUST be an evil double-crossing manipulative way to stop Zelda from being run.
HiddenGamer, if you feel you need to step in and respond to this, then do so by posting on the forums.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 12
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
bkDJ wrote:
edit: and yeah he uses the gold scale early trick in the run.
nice, glad to know im contributing to a TAS :)
and i know noone here specializes in discovering glitches or whatnot but i was more interested in its possible to obtain items other than goldscale from the fisherman
LOOKIE LOOKIE!
Acyrte is back at the OOT glitch master (along with Kazooie)!
From here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtnc_wxBjwE
1. Deplete Deku Stick Supply to 0
2. Get fish in bottle
3. Plant Bean in lake hylia
4. Become Adult
5. Go get hoverboots early
6. Beat Forest temple (To get rid of shiek)
7. Ride beanplant to Fisherman's Pond
8. Go Fishing (20 rupees)
9. Equip Hover + cast fishing line (v1.0 only)
10. Move to door w/ line cast
11. Go back towards ToT
12. In hyrule field (Not in lake hylia) Pause and unpause (puts deku stick on B [DON'T PRESS B])
13. Empty bottled fish and catch it again
14. Do backflip and then press bottle button and then B before you hit the ground. (puts bottle on B)
15. Go to ToT
16. Put fish on c-right and make sure deku nuts aren't equipped (not sure but to be safe).
17. Become child
18. Become Adult (light arrows are now on B)
19. Perform Ganon Early (sword glitch method or bomb-boosted hover method)
20. Perform Ganon's Tower Skip w/ bomb
21. Use bottle to reflect the energy ball
22. Hit him w/ light arrow
23. Pause and equip sword.
24. Hold him down w/ attacks (easiest w/ quickspins) till he is dead in 1 cycle.
For those of you wanting to make avis but the white screen bothers you a lot, there is a solution that doesn't change the framecount or the audio sync. I don't know if you plan on using avisynth for the final encode after a lossless capture or whatever, but if you do, the internal filter FreezeFrame() lets you repeat the last good frame until the pause menu loads.
...
This seems like an acceptable fix. I used avisynth before to put the disclaimer imformation on the Ristar video, so having a solution this way is quite handy.
bkDJ wrote:
...
Also N64 movie framerates in the faq aren't mentioned. Since OoT uses only one third of the available frames except for the n64 logo spin and name input screen, would it be acceptable to use "Decimate(3).Decimate(2)" Which would get rid of one duplicate frame every 3rd (60->40) and then one every 2nd (40->20). This would avoid having each frame shown 3 times and give better compression no matter what codec. Downside (negligeable given the overall superior compressibility) is choppy N64 logo the first second and choppy file screen when he creates the game and then restarting after a gameover. total: 4 seconds of choppiness
This I won't be doing though, because OoT uses 60fps for more than just the parts you mentioned. For example, I believe all the fadeouts to white and other full screen effects still run at 60.
Since I'm going to be out for a while, I'm going to set up a capture of all the progress so far, from the very beginning, this time with the initial size at 640x480. Hopefully that should put any shearing effects from the aliasing to rest.
edit: wasn't out as long as i expected, and the capture was going pretty slow, so i'll probably do it over a series of nights, and splice together each section.
LOOKIE LOOKIE!
Acyrte is back at the OOT glitch master (along with Kazooie)!
I asked him to look into that Light Arrows glitch last night. He was surprised that no one had bothered even though Kazooie came up with it weeks ago.
So Guano, are you going to consider redoing that Twinrova battle? (See this post)
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
Mwl, if you can try and manipulate her staying in 1 spot the whole time, go for it. I tried numerous of times from different angles and pressing Z at certain times. Nothing. I tried for a while on it and got nothing.
Would the bottle glitch be concidered faster than what I'm doing?
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Sorry, but I'm not quite sure you understood.
Here is a vid. This is phase 1, not phase 2. Your positioning and angle needs to be perfect so that the stream will hit the other witch dead center right after switching targets. It's only about 50 frames faster than your manual aiming, so it's your choice if you want to redo it.
Are we certain that the desync problems are due to Raw Data being checked? What I mean is, will unchecking this on the next run create a more normal rate of desyncs? I've heard mention of this, but I'm not sure if anybody knows for sure. If so, I think the only emulation problem is the white screen. Is that really such a huge deal? And there is a solution, it would just make the .m64 files unwatchable at full speed, which is annoying, but there's always .avi's.
In response to the notice that the music plays in the background as the screen is white, it shouldn't be a big deal, I can make it almost unnoticeable.
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 12
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
i tried to watch the latest WIP and it messed up right after obtaining the kokiri sword, pause was pressed and it went to a BLACK screen the kokiri sword was not equipped and link started hopping all over the area gettign hit by the boulder
granted this is my first time trying to watch a .m64
can someone plz help me on what my settings should be ?
perhaps its the wrong rom version?
i've been hearing a lot about check this uncheck that and i didnt quite enderstand
help is appreciated, thanks
