Topic by Squ4ll-

Posted: 11/25/2005 10:42 PM

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Squ4ll-

Joined: 11/28/2004
Posts: 138

Things i did to get it to work: - Right rom version - Made it so i had excact the same plugin settings as spezzafer used (well nearly the same) - And make sure you are using the same version of the rom that the video was made it, most important.

The best time you have is the time you share with other people.

Posted: 11/25/2005 10:57 PM

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kooz

Former player

Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Michigan, United States

It was N-Rage`s Direct-Input8 V2 1.80a... thought I was using the correct version but it was defaulting to an older version. Looks great so far ;)

Posted: 11/25/2005 11:54 PM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

It plays fine for me with any (of these mentioned) plugins. You just have to turn off the "Raw Data" option in your input plugin, it doesn't matter what the plugin version is.

Posted: 11/26/2005 12:44 AM

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Sabikage

Joined: 7/28/2004
Posts: 57

That was it exactly, Nitsuja. I'm using different plugins and it's not desyncing. Good call.

Posted: 11/26/2005 9:50 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

Well, it's a known problem (my fault) that the emulator requires that option to be off but doesn't warn you if it's on. (After I found that out, I expected it would cause some confusion like this, but it's not a high priority right now because it's not a problem after people figure it out.) Anyway... wow, that was stunning, uh... dialog manipulation, Spezzafer. Now all you or someone has to do is make the rest of the run as perfect as that. About the menu screen delay: The Zelda subcreen delay problem is a known issue that for some reason affects all N64 emulators except one or two recently that are doing something specific to avoid it. It's in the emulator core itself (has nothing to do with the plugins you're using) and it's not something I would have a clue how to fix, so anyone making a run of this game for now will just have to accept that the menu screen takes longer to load than normal.

Posted: 11/27/2005 12:20 AM

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GWing_02

Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 124

I know that in Project64 there's actually an option listed in the Cheats menu that fixes the Subscreen delay to a *certain* extent; I'm assuming it's just a gameshark-ish-type code, so maybe you could find out what the code is and hardcode into Mupen? The only side effect I've seen with it is that the background switches to the last house-type environment you were in rather than the current screen.

Posted: 11/27/2005 7:51 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Does the pause show up in an .avi movie?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 11/27/2005 10:38 AM

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Dacicus

Editor, Player (67)

Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1041

GWing_02 wrote:

The only side effect I've seen with it is that the background switches to the last house-type environment you were in rather than the current screen.

That happens on my computer if I use the glN64 v0.4.1 video plugin. The picture of Link in the pause menu is also messed up: It shows some stretched tiles of the shield and other things instead of actually showing Link. Those things don't happen with the Jabo's Direct3D8 1.6 plugin, though.

Bag of Magic Food wrote:

Does the pause show up in an .avi movie?

I think it probably will. I recorded about 20 seconds of playing just to test the pause menu delay with different plugins, and the frame count continues while waiting for the menu to appear. Unless the AVI capture somehow automatically skips those extra frames, they'll be there.

Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.

Posted: 11/27/2005 11:22 AM

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Atma

Former player

Joined: 9/1/2005
Posts: 803

Bag of Magic Food wrote:

Does the pause show up in an .avi movie?

I believe it certainly would, as the music in the background still plays regardless of settings. eg this avi (4.5MB) eliminates ~95% of the lag that you get with normal plugin settings, but the flip side is that you'd have to play the whole movie with those settings (dont know about your machine, but that one option drops it to about 10fps on my machine), since changing them at any point would desync the movie for the watcher who would have to change them to keep it in sync (which would be over the top irritating). That avi was made with Jabo's Direct3D8 1.6 plugin with the 'copy framebuffer to RDRAM' option checked.

Posted: 11/29/2005 2:42 AM

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Dacicus

Editor, Player (67)

Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1041

Just for fun, I added a bit to spezzafer's movie. It's just Link (or maybe I should say A) jumping down from his house after Saria greets him. I highly doubt that's the best jump to make, since it's somewhat diagonal, but I'm pretty sure its the fastest one possible. Anyway, here's the link. NOTE: I'm certainly not planning to do this run. I just hope this will get someone working on it, if no one already is.

Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.

Posted: 11/29/2005 2:43 AM

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GWing_02

Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 124

At this rate we'll have the game TAS'd in about 30 years. =P

Posted: 11/29/2005 9:35 PM

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Dacicus

Editor, Player (67)

Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1041

At least there won't be any problems with the emulator by then. I hope. EDIT: TSA: Is the debug rom supposed to be a Master Quest version? That's the only one I can seem to find. I started playing it, but stopped when I noticed that it was a MQ version, so I'm not sure if the one I have actually works. BTW, it starts off running very slowly, at least on my machine. It was at 0.0 fps for a short time. On a possibly more relevant note, can those boundary glitches be used to skip the shield early in the game? If not, has the best route for getting the money been determined?

Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.

Posted: 11/30/2005 9:52 AM

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CoolBumpty

Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158

I tried doing some testing, but it desynced on a random part (when I was around the Sword area). Not like it was a pretty test or anything, but it was kind of disheartening. I think that my computer in general doesn't like making TAS's. =( Or maybe the way I go about it is really bad and taxing, or something. I'm not sure. Anyway, I thought that a Zelda run wouldn't overly require a analog stick gamepad, but it seems it's a lot more important that I'd guess. But well, I think a reasonable job can be done with just the keyboard and maybe the mouse on some important parts.

Posted: 11/30/2005 4:19 PM

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nico

Former player

Joined: 7/14/2005
Posts: 103

yeah, i desynced too. what version of mupen are you using?

Posted: 11/30/2005 6:57 PM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

What plugin settings are you guys using? You'll need "copy framebuffer to rdram" on in the video settings if seriously testing anything, for now. (And if you did have it on, it's possible that fixing the delay with that option still leaves a random part of the delay which would usually cause desync, not that I've seen anything to suggest that so far.)

Posted: 11/30/2005 7:20 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Yeah, I think there's still a tiny delay left. I don't know if it's random, though.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 12/1/2005 3:20 AM

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CoolBumpty

Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158

Well, I was originally using Jabo 1.6, but when I looked through the list for a plugin that had that video setting you mentioned, I couldn't find it. Jabo seems to work well other than for the spinning N at the beginning. Oh well, that's okay. I know that I wouldn't have the dedication to make a run that got through this game anyway. Or if I did, it would end up being a terrible run. Edit: Oh, I found the setting now. The option to hide the advanced settings was on, and somehow I didn't notice it. =P The game runs at about 2/3rds speed or so for me with that setting on. That's something that's acceptable to me if I were to go a run. But I'd probably want an analog controller first. I may start on a test run without the real precision of an analog controller, but well, I can't make any promises because I've never succeeded to do a complicated TAS before. But if I work on a test run and get to, say, Princess Zelda, I'll post a WIP of the test. But if someone else wants to work on it, please be my guest. Anyone else working on it would both be more likely to complete it and also the finished product would be better. So don't let my mentioning of the fact that I may end up doing some testing get in the way at all of anyone else's work.

Posted: 12/11/2005 7:33 AM

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qqwref

Player (135)

Joined: 8/27/2004
Posts: 164

Um... I know TAS's are great and all, but I don't really think this is the best game for a tool-assisted run. It's true that you can make it a bit faster by doing some tool-assisted things, but I question the entertainment value of the finished product. Unless a sizeable quantity of amazing, difficult, cool-looking, and time-saving shortcuts or glitches can be found, there isn't any reason to redo a five-hour run in tool-assisted format just to make some cosmetic changes. Because of the length of the run, it would be ridiculous not to spend a few months (or more) looking for such glitches and tricks rather than to spend the same time redoing even 10% of the run because of a newly found sequence break early on. Well, what I'm trying to say, anyway, is that you shouldn't jump into this immediately. If it's not substantially quicker and better-executed than the existing speedrun (like Spezzafer's 16-star Super Mario 64 TAS is), it will be an immense failure. At the very least, time different ways of walking (jumping) around and things before starting serious work on this.

Posted: 12/11/2005 12:25 PM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

It's not the best game for a tool-assisted run, but I suspect that the end result would be quite amazing, if someone knows enough and (just as importantly) has enough time to seriously do it. Even a "normal" run without any sequence breaks, but with perfectly optimized movement and combat, would probably look great and far better than what anyone could do in real-time.

Posted: 12/11/2005 5:07 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

That may be true... It's just that this game has such dedicated speedrunners that who knows what they could do? I think it would be good to wait a few months to see if somebody stumbles on more time-saving stuff (and to fix emulation problems like that menu!), but I won't mind if someone tries to make a run now. Just realize it'll be nearly five hours long!

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 12/11/2005 5:59 PM

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DK64_MASTER

Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose

I found TSA's speedrun of OOT VERY entertaining because of it's precision, and tricks. TASing a zelda game would make it possible to view the near limit of completion times, which is probably around 3:30-4:30 w/out any major sequence breaks. Arcyte has some very excellent strategies up to the completion of the Deku tree, and it already is theoretically quite a bit faster than the latest segmented run (put on hold for now). The segmented run (from what I've seen of it) is very entertaining, and therefore means the TAS run will be amazing! This game may be LONG to speedrun, but that doesn't mean it won't be entertaining. :).

<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~

Posted: 12/11/2005 6:01 PM

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erdamus

Joined: 11/28/2005
Posts: 2

I would think it would be around 4 hours or less. If TSA's impressive speedrun is sub-5, then with all the tricks that he left out, such as walking backwards instead of rolling or the sequence breaks, I think sub-4 hours would be at least the bar to shoot for. I think you guys are underestimating the community and/or the rich possibilities of this game for a TAS.

Posted: 12/11/2005 6:04 PM

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AngerFist

Active player (432)

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

erdamus wrote:

I would think it would be around 4 hours or less. If TSA's impressive speedrun is sub-5, then with all the tricks that he left out, such as walking backwards instead of rolling or the sequence breaks, I think sub-4 hours would be at least the bar to shoot for. I think you guys are underestimating the community and/or the rich possibilities of this game for a TAS.

Which part did he not walk backwards?

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 12/11/2005 6:16 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

And I think everyone else is overestimating how much time you can save, considering how many forced waits there are in the game.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 12/11/2005 10:54 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (277)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

spezzafer wrote:

I've done a test run up to the very start of controlling Link, so if anyone wants to start a movie they can use this one so they won't have to move through all of the dialogue (it's perfectly optimized). Here is a savestate (1.61 MB) near the end of the test movie to start recording at if one wishes to start their own. the rom used is Legend of Zelda, The - Ocarina of Time (U) (V1.0) [!].z64 plugins used: glN64 v0.4.1 Jabo's DirectSound 1.6 N-Rage`s Direct-Input8 V2 1.80a Hacktarux/Azimer hle rsp plugin The only huge problem with this game on mupen64 is the pause menu, which takes nearly 5 seconds to open/close. Even with the latest glide plugin it still takes a while to open (although it closes much faster).

Hey Spezzafer, your movie desyncs for me, even when I use the same game and all the same plugins. It just twiddles around the options screen for a while. Did a button press get cut off?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude