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Posted: 3/22/2010 8:29 PM

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sonicpacker

Active player (426)

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California

New strategy for BitDW. Like Kyman said, strat found by SilentSlayers and Moltov.

https://personalitygrowth.com/entp-myths-stereotypes-misconceptions-cliches-and-tropes-that-are-inaccurate/

Posted: 3/23/2010 1:54 AM

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arflech

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Joined: 5/3/2008
Posts: 1120

djchilxxn wrote:

so sorry for bringing this up.... again... um, is anyone currently working on a 70 star run of this game? maybe someone could tell me if a 70 star TAS exists.. thanks!

I guess it didn't appear interesting enough to TAS until the 16-star strategy was discovered.

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Posted: 3/23/2010 2:18 AM

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Weatherton

Experienced player (608)

Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706

The 16-Star completion was discovered well before N64 TASing was available. In any case, a 70 star run (as discussed ad nauseum) has difficult to define goals. You could say "no backwards long jump" but then the game could still be beaten in fewer than 70 stars (50?) using the high-speed wall kick. I think a "no backwards long jump" run is becoming more and more desirable, given the extent of its abuse in current strategies. Removing that one ability could totally change the strategies for many stars. To ensure the run is really different, perhaps throw in the CCCless constraints (Capless, cannonless, coinless).

Current Project: - Mario Kart 64

Posted: 3/23/2010 2:39 AM

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Kirkq

Player (210)

Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 798
Location: US

I do want to see this run as well, but I doubt you're going to see anyone working on a 70 star run until the 120 star run is up to par. Probably just the limitations of no BLJs and no HSWK will be sensible to most people. CCC-less is too arbitrary.

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Posted: 3/23/2010 2:46 AM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

There was someone working on this awhile back, but I guess either they've stopped or they are deciding to keep quiet about it. I know they started before the HSWK was discovered, so the original rule was "no BLJ", but it'd make sense to adapt that to "no breaking the game's intended max speeds" as a more general restriction.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 3/23/2010 2:50 AM

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Kaylee

She/Her

Editor, Active player (434)

Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada

That someone was me :P Anyways new BitS timesaver: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61weL80eAto

Posted: 3/23/2010 9:52 AM

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Weatherton

Experienced player (608)

Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706

Derakon wrote:

"no breaking the game's intended max speeds"

Unfortunately, I think that would be impossible to define and overly restrictive.

Current Project: - Mario Kart 64

Posted: 3/23/2010 3:17 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Weatherton wrote:

Derakon wrote:
"no breaking the game's intended max speeds"
Unfortunately, I think that would be impossible to define and overly restrictive.

Overly restrictive is one thing, but I think this is quite easy to define on an "I know it if I see it" basis. It doesn't have to be a rigorous definition.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 3/23/2010 4:48 PM

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arkiandruski

Reviewer, Active player (287)

Joined: 12/14/2006
Posts: 717

If you can go fast enough using it to get up the infinite stairs early, it's not allowed. This still allows for corner glitches and other faulty hit detection, though.

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Posted: 3/23/2010 8:28 PM

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JSmith

Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428

Derakon wrote:

There was someone working on this awhile back, but I guess either they've stopped or they are deciding to keep quiet about it. I know they started before the HSWK was discovered, so the original rule was "no BLJ", but it'd make sense to adapt that to "no breaking the game's intended max speeds" as a more general restriction.

Backwards sliding down any of the secret slides breaks the speed limit, as does C^ on certain slopes. I do not think we want to forbid either of these.

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Posted: 3/23/2010 8:31 PM

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Kaylee

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Editor, Active player (434)

Joined: 9/29/2008
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Sliding down a hill does. There's no way to do a 70 star run without breaking the game's intended max speeds, because there is no intended max speed.

Posted: 3/23/2010 10:54 PM

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Weatherton

Experienced player (608)

Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706

This is why a 50 star run may make more sense: No BLJ is a very clear, very simple goal that significantly changes the gameplay and alters strategies.

Current Project: - Mario Kart 64

Posted: 3/23/2010 11:01 PM

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Kaylee

She/Her

Editor, Active player (434)

Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada

It's most likely possible to have a 31 star run with HSWK.

Posted: 3/23/2010 11:09 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

I suspect that if you were to present a 50-star TAS to the community, those who like low-glitch runs (i.e. the people towards whom such a run is primarily tailored) would be very happy...up until you skipped the last 20 stars. The entire point of a 70-star TAS is to not skip significant portions of the game. It doesn't help that some of the best levels are in the last set of paintings. In other words, instead of trying to find a simple restriction and then making a run that suits the restriction, you should be trying to find a restriction that describes the run. Maybe that restriction needs to be "No BLJ or HSWK".

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Posted: 3/23/2010 11:24 PM

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sonicpacker

Active player (426)

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California

As I said a few pages back, you can't define hyperspeed wall kicks. As long as you wall kick on your first frame (even if it's only 1 wall kick), you are starting HSWK.

https://personalitygrowth.com/entp-myths-stereotypes-misconceptions-cliches-and-tropes-that-are-inaccurate/

Posted: 3/23/2010 11:41 PM

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snorlax

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Joined: 5/20/2007
Posts: 174
Location: Wisconsin

How often are hyperspeed wall kicks useful anyway? Just don't use them to skip any of the star doors; it's not that complicated. I agree with Derakon in that you don't need to find exceptions to whatever rule you're using to get 70 stars; if you make a 70-star run, preferably without BLJ, it will be accepted, and people will be happy.

Posted: 3/24/2010 1:06 AM

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BigBoct

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Editor, Former player

Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH

I'm pretty un-knowledgeable about Mario 64 TASing, but I'd like to throw my opinion into the ring regarding a 70-star run. IMO, a good 70-star run would collect the most entertaining 4 stars from each course (for a total of 60) and then 10 of the secret stars to make 70. I think this would be the best way to go about it because it maximizes the entertainment value over time. Of course, "entertainment" is hugely subjective, so maybe it would be a better idea to pick the quickest 4 stars and not subject the movie to a "speed/entertainment trade-off" debate.

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Posted: 3/24/2010 1:42 AM

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