ALAKTORN
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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Cooldude0027 wrote:
GoombaHeart wrote:
Cooldude0027 wrote:
Could you post a link to the 20 star run? I'll check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5eFLrG7vIQ
Thanks man.
I’m pretty sure a bunch of those strategies are outdated, though. If you’re gonna TAS something to try and get a new record, first look around for videos or just ask here for the specific video and someone might be able to find something fast. On nicovideo ABC is called A禁止, I believe.
Alyosha
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Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2728
Location: US
I have another question for the more knowledgeable folks. How are properties inherited by coins? I noticed that coins from goombas (who don't run off cliffs) also don't fall off cliffs, while coins from bob-ombs (who do run off cliffs) do go off cliffs. I'm surprised I had played this game a lot as a kid and never noticed this. Is this a property that gets passed down, so to say, to the coin? Or is the coin just replacing the enemy and this property simply doesn't get updated?
This combined with the ceiling collisions may be what's causing this behavior.
Well my thought was that since the glitch happens when mario lands, it might be related to some flag representing mario's current state being incorrectly set at some point in the jump sequence, similar to how mario shouldn't be colliding with a wall he was already clipped to the other side of. Is there a list of flags that can be set that we can run through?
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ALAKTORN wrote:
On nicovideo ABC is called A禁止, I believe.
Actually, 'A禁止' means 'A(button) Banned'
ALAKTORN
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Player (99)
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
coldsun0630 wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
On nicovideo ABC is called A禁止, I believe.
Actually, 'A禁止' means 'A(button) Banned'
I’m aware. I never claimed it to be a translation, just the way the Japanese community calls it.
Joined: 12/25/2012
Posts: 17
So I am beginning what I call a "Minimal A Presses Any% Run". Minimal because I think you have to press A once to enter the Bowser fight in BitFS. I call it an Any% run because I am unsure how many stars it will take to beat the game. Though my guess would be 70+, unless there's a way to skip the endless staircase or skip the 50 star door without BLJing. For now I've collected one star. Here's the Lakitu Skip: Link to video Here's entering BoB: Link to video Here's the first star: Link to video
That's all folks.
Plush
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Joined: 9/1/2014
Posts: 235
Location: Italy
Cooldude0027 wrote:
Here's the first star: Link to video
Why didn't you warp on the flowers instead of going for the analog tilting strat on the slope w/ the bomb? If you watch the 20 star run you can notice they do the flowers strat. I can easily tell it's faster thanks to the music. You probably are new to TASing SM64, but keep in mind that it's (almost) always better to aim for a straight line. Tilt the analog stick straight towards Mario is facing during a DR if you want to not loose speed but gain.
Joined: 12/25/2012
Posts: 17
Plush wrote:
Cooldude0027 wrote:
Here's the first star: Link to video
Why didn't you warp on the flowers instead of going for the analog tilting strat on the slope w/ the bomb? If you watch the 20 star run you can notice they do the flowers strat. I can easily tell it's faster thanks to the music. You probably are new to TASing SM64, but keep in mind that it's (almost) always better to aim for a straight line. Tilt the analog stick straight towards Mario is facing during a DR if you want to not loose speed but gain.
I am new to TASing SM64. When I was making this I thought maybe if I got pushed up the slope and grabbed the bob-omb as he exploded for the backwards speed perhaps that would be faster but I didn't try it because I was already in the analog tilting strat when I thought of it haha. Also, I am unsure what a DR is.
That's all folks.
GoombaHeart
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Posts: 131
Location: Winters
DR = Dive Recover.
Shit tier TASer.
Joined: 12/25/2012
Posts: 17
GoombaHeart wrote:
DR = Dive Recover.
Ah thank you.
That's all folks.
Alyosha
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Editor, Expert player (3532)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2728
Location: US
So I've been thinking about the glitch and wondered what exactly could effect Mario's state such that a strange case could occur. Certainly by now many people have tried to replicate this following the original movie, and since the bounty is still unclaimed there must be something else at work here. Then I was watching one of pannenkoek's other videos about extreme coin RNG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PXiEbvZoTs At ~1:32 I noticed a coin clipping off of the ice structure in the background in a weird way. It reminded me of the Bob-omb's coin in this glitch. I wonder if the coin is going off the edge just as mario is landing, and as the game processing the coin clipping around the corner, it leaves some flag set that later effects Mario as he hits the floor. I definitely lack the technical knowledge of SM64 to test this, so this might be as far as I go, but I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this? It's the only thing I can think of with a sufficiently small enough probability that the glitch is this super rare, and hasn't been reproduced even while mimicking the movie quite closely.
GoombaHeart
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Posts: 131
Location: Winters
I think there's a low ceiling BLJ location at the top of the spiral staircase, is this known?
Shit tier TASer.
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
In the teleporter exit at the top of the mountain? I think that's known.
GoombaHeart
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Location: Winters
I want something quite quick, what's the ABC record for Chill With the Bully? Coming to think of it where does level timing begin?
Zowayix wrote:
In the teleporter exit at the top of the mountain? I think that's known.
Nah in the hub.
Shit tier TASer.
Plush
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Joined: 9/1/2014
Posts: 235
Location: Italy
Alyosha wrote:
I wonder if the coin is going off the edge just as mario is landing, and as the game processing the coin clipping around the corner, it leaves some flag set that later effects Mario as he hits the floor.
I don't get it lol, makes no sense to me. Why do you think that coins might affect Mario's position?
Alyosha
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Plush wrote:
I don't get it lol, makes no sense to me. Why do you think that coins might affect Mario's position?
Not the coin itself exactly, but the collision detection the game does on the coin as it goes over the edge. My guess here is that that happens at the same time mario is landing / changing ceiling triangles and could create an edge case where a flag or pointer somewhere gets messed up. It's something rare enough that it might match up to how hard this glitch is to reproduce. Or at least it seems plausible to me based on seeing the backwards collisions that I mentioned in my previous posts.
Joined: 12/25/2012
Posts: 17
So I decided that instead of putting together an entire run (I'm starting college in a week, lol) I'm going to just try to optimize all the stars that I can. Here's Whirl from the Freezing Pond - 0x A Presses. Link to video EDIT: Here's Chill with the Bully: Link to video
That's all folks.
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
any progress on 0 star?
Samsara
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Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2122)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Northern California
Synx wrote:
any progress on 0 star?
TASes take time. You'd know this if you actually worked on one yourself. EDIT: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=413624#413624 "Finally, no point in submitting that when we're gonna cut 30 seconds soon anyways ;)"
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | Cohost
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Editor, Expert player (2012)
Joined: 8/25/2013
Posts: 1199
Cooldude0027 wrote:
Here's Whirl from the Freezing Pond Here's Chill with the Bully
Short and sweet. I like 'em!
Synx wrote:
any progress on 0 star?
Only been 8 days dude. Chill.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
GoombaHeart
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Joined: 7/11/2015
Posts: 131
Location: Winters
Cooldude0027 wrote:
Here's Chill with the Bully: Link to video
You can dive from the snow onto the icey platform without the bounce, it's faster try to avoid bouncing if you can. Edit: I'm just uploading one I made. Though there'll be better ones. Link to video
Shit tier TASer.
Joined: 12/25/2012
Posts: 17
I decided to hop on the TTC Upwarp glitch bandwagon. Here are some things: There's a spot on the spinning platform where when Mario lands it bumps him up a frame, then down a frame, then back up. I call it a "bounce glitch" though I know it happens elsewhere, except everywhere that I can think of it happens on an edge and not a full platform. I'll post some screen shots. Frame 1: Frame 2: Frame 3: Also, when Mario jumps high enough he clips through the side of the platform directly above him and it ejects him to the side a bit. Frame 1: Frame 2: A third thing worth mentioning, in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UDDdbXaGx0 Pannenkoek2012 talks about how the game has little random variables that determine what happens in the game. Luckily enough for us, Mario controls those variables. Throughout the video he manipulates these "random" variables and forces yoshi to obey him. So here's all the things that I think contribute to the making of this glitch: 1. Mario bounces off the wall, giving him backwards speed. 2. Mario lands in the "Bounce Glitch" zone (see above). Mario lands on the front end of the bounce glitch, is forced downward for a frame, and because of his backwards speed, the game detects that he's colliding with the platform that he's supposed to be standing on. Mario then is warped upward. 3. As Mario is being warped upwards, he clips out the side of the platform directly above him (also see above). (adding other people's thoughts here) 4. Mario was warped to the second highest platform, the one to his upper right, where he's placed in a position that he's ledge grabbing the inner edge of the platform. 5. As he ledge grabs, the game forces him to the closest possible ledge to be grabbed, specifically at the top of the wall. 6. The coin from the Bob-omb simultaneously glitches in the extreme RNG case that Alyosha mentioned referencing Pannen's video. This changes the byte value that Pannen changes in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5cwuYFUUAY forcing Mario to a specific height. This is pure speculation. However, I think that some combination of these conditions caused the upwarp. Also, I think what we are looking at is a double upwarp glitch where the first upwarp occurs when Mario is forced to the ledge grab on the second highest platform, and the second occurs immediately after when either 1) he's forced to the nearest ledge grab, AKA the top of the wall or 2) his height value is changed to that specific height for whatever reason (the bob-omb coin, or something else). If it IS a double upwarp glitch, then I expect whoever replicates it and wins the money to give me somma dat cash.
That's all folks.
Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496
Samsara wrote:
Synx wrote:
any progress on 0 star?
TASes take time. You'd know this if you actually worked on one yourself. EDIT: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=413624#413624 "Finally, no point in submitting that when we're gonna cut 30 seconds soon anyways ;)"
nice edit. I have been around these forums long enough to understand that TASes take time even without working on them myself. I have tremendous respect for the guys who actually create world record TAS'es and I sincerely hope these men interpret my inquiry as excited anticipation rather than annoying nagging. I look forward to seeing "hopefully" sub 5.
Alyosha
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@cooldude: I think the second example in your post is just normal collision detection, it will occur as long as the game thinks Mario is below a higher ceiling even when a lower one partly intersects him. As a result Mario would end up inside the wall triangle when he jumps (since it doesn't detect him hitting the ceiling) so he gets ejected out. In your first part it would be interesting to see what happens in Bizhawk since lag frames are emulated there. Mupen can be misleading, since you can even jump seemingly in mid-air since it doesn't show all frames. I do think edge grabbing is an interesting idea I haven't thought of. In pannen's video where he changes Mario's height to match the glitch, I wonder if that is an edge of a wall triangle? I guess this is the first thing to answer (but I don't know how to do it.) I'm pretty surprised the bounty is unclaimed still, surely more difficult glitches then this have been studied and reproduced, and SM64 is a pretty hotly contested game.
Joined: 12/25/2012
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I would test out the Bounce Glitch in Bizhawk if I could, but I don't have it set up and I'm not sure how to set it up. If indeed the Bounce Glitch happens not only in Mupen but in Bizhawk as well, then could it be possible that the game thinks Mario is beneath the platform for the frame that he's in it and can't down warp him for whatever reason so it upwarps him? Also is there any way that the coin from the Bob-omb could be changing the byte in Mario's height?
That's all folks.
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So...has anyone attempted to use this script to test tons of combinations of input yet?