One character versus countless monsters. We all know the result. Though, usually, for relatively new players, it doesn't end well for the one character.
  • FCEUX 2.2.2
  • Aims for fastest time
Just a note: This submission is slightly different from my last WIP upload, as I make the ending ever-so-slightly more exciting, though with an identical frame count. Anyone who likes seeing numbers go down to 1 without actually reaching 0 may want to rewatch the ending of this submission. (Oh, and sorry about that, solarplex. Love your temporary encodes!)

About the game

You must run through a maze of rooms, filled with treasure, monsters, secrets, and monster generators, in order to finally reach the last room and retrieve the orb, all while your health is slowly draining. Along the way, there are eight clue rooms that tell you a piece of the vault combination, which is slightly randomized when you start your game, and is preserved in the password the game gives you at each treasure room, saving your progress and all those nifty power-ups you got.
You can select from four different characters, each of whom have their advantages and disadvantages. If it's too hard to go alone, the game even lets you play with a second player to help out. The pacing is rather fast, especially in the endgame areas, and there are some rather devious traps, including an exit that takes you directly to the title screen (effectively a game over), and one room which has no exit. All that stuff does get rather insane, so if you can manage to win it, you've done very well.

About this run

Since I was thinking pretty heavily about Gauntlet at the time, I thought I would go about fooling around in it for a bit. Initially, I was playing around with the idea of a two player "100%-like" run, of which I never even reached the first door, let alone finish the room, but then decided upon improving FODA's run when I figured out a faster way to fight the dragon. But just in case, I would go through every level in hopes that there might be other sorts of improvements to make, not just the very end. Turns out there are plenty of other improvements to make. One more old TAS obsoleted.
I pick Elf because a lot of moving needs to be done. Speed is usually a priority stat in speedruns. Elf also has pathetic damage for shots, with the one point boost from Extra Shot effectively doubling his shot power. I pick the same password that FODA did, so the only thing different I did was try to fake you out with Warrior showing up momentarily.
On a side note, the invincibility I pick up in room 87 so "conveniently" runs out just as I start attacking the dragon. Leading me into doing things such as getting the dragon to breathe fire onto one of its other heads, which sadly doesn't provide extra damage, but does get rid of the flame quickly for lag purposes and also saves what little HP I have.
Finally, a quick thanks to a number of people in the IRC channel for being supportive of my subtitles when I felt some doubt. All I wanted was a few quick words, and it seemed ais523, RGamma, and atma were there on IRC, as well as Derakon on the forums. So, subtitles are done a bit faster with added motivation behind them. And I shouldn't skip thanking FODA's TAS, the run this one aims to obsolete, as it gave a nice comparison point and some kind of route already worked out before.

Improvements

RoomFODAMeDiffComment
start 318 318 0To set up password (B4EGLMAI); Only difference here is cosmetic
r01 406 404- 2Saved on lag, somehow
r05 507 486- 31Went to the right after breakable block
r0911841181- 3Hate this level. Lag's a pain
r10 727 710- 13Slightly more efficient shooting secret wall; Lag stuff
r11 771 654-117Lag management; Skipped a key
t13 406 400- 6Oh, treasure room. Little of note
r14 702 730+ 28That key I skipped? Needed a new one now. Skipped a different key
r17 913 870- 43Skipped a switch panel; Got a fast key behind secret wall
r18 497 491- 6Slightly different route
t19 403 401- 2Probably has to do with pre-lag input or something
r2010391022- 17Mostly just lag management
r21 423 420- 3Not sure how I sped this one up. One lag to zero doesn't explain the other two frames
r22 845 847+ 2Extra frames were added due to treasure room RNG
t24 327 328+ 1FODA did pre-lag input here for some reason; Also, had less HP due to bad timer
r25 523 523 0Slight differences, but somehow balances to zero
r27 872 866- 6Pushed that first block; Lag management; Hate those bubbles
r28 621 621 0I think treasure room RNG prevented me from pulling ahead
t29 321 321 0Treasure room. Nothing to note
r30 380 379- 1I'm not sure where I did more optimal movement
r3417161702- 14Slightly better movement; Good Treasure Room RNG
t36 329 328- 1Not sure what FODA did different here
r3714711328-143Lag reduction by aggressive killing
r38 619 595- 24Eh?
r4010971035- 62Picked a secret key
t41 312 312 0Bah, Treasure room
r42 633 635+ 2Picked another secret key
r43 323 322- 1Pre-lag input, most likely
r4412321187- 45Lag management, mostly
t49 416 420+ 4Bad RNG for exit
r50 972 929- 43How? My notes claim I got more lag
r51 344 342- 2Nothing to note
r521065 858-207Popped a potion to kill absurd amounts of lag
t55 601 419-182Did not get HP boost, yet
r5611081099- 9Um... More precise movements? Oh, and that zone of treasure is surrounded by legitimate walls
r57 391 568+177Now I get the HP boost
r60 229 228- 1Uh... What happened that allowed me to save a frame?
r59 432 430- 2Also straightforward. Not sure what's different
t62 398 395- 3Treasure room. Now I get decent luck
r63 248 246- 2Navigating the invisible walls better?
r64 357 359+ 2Lost frames. Where, exactly?
r65 386 378- 8Saved enough for usable treasure room RNG
t67 425 421- 4Nothing of note
r68 567 541- 16Lag, probably
r69 969 973+ 4Hate this level, hate the bubbles, want to use a potion I can't spare...
s70 409 387- 22Better management at shooting destrucable blocks
t71 415 415 0Nothing to note
r72 586 576- 10Rounded corners, lag management
r75 807 675-132Different path to avoid more breakable blocks
t78 416 412- 4Nothing noted
r7910851037- 48Aggressive killings to manage lag; Had a demon destroy its own generator
t83 332 330- 2Note: Nothing
r84 785 746- 39Lag management, breakable block shootings
r8613541113-241Avoided a stun panel
r8711641060-104More stuff hit by potion; Somehow I take 255 damage in a single hit
t88 328 326- 2Noting nothing
r89 353 350- 3Lower lag. Still took a longer path that spent a few of those frames
r91 467 438- 29Ignored the invisibility; This might be another potion candidate
t92 329 327- 2...
r9312851259- 26Different path
r94 481 461- 20Spent a potion in a spot with fewer enemies, but eliminates more lag
r9921371834-303Spent a potion. Navigation went pretty smoothly, though
10031722199-973Spent only two potions instead of three; Faster dragon kill; Careful lag management

Tricks

Just a few sorts of things that come to mind. Nothing elaborate I can really think of to say, though.

Setting the vault combination

FODA already did plenty of work here, and I'm merely following that work at face value. The vault combination is determined by the first character of your password, and that is affected by when you confirm your character.

Wall walking causes lag

If trying to "push" a wall, either straight on or diagonally, this is likely to add lag frames. FODA frequently did this; Most sorts of lag I removed was due to simply avoiding walking into walls.

Pass through enemies

An enemy can move onto a square that you're just barely on; Since you're technically in this square as well, you can freely move through it. FODA seemed to know of this just fine.

Dragon head invulnerability

The end boss has 100 HP for each head. While a head is breathing fire, it can't take damage. Therefore, it is best to activate each head at different times so that you can attack one while another is breathing fire.

Possible improvements

Even better lag management, mostly. Especially room 09. Trying to figure out when a good time to spend a frame or two attacking/shooting something to reduce future lag leaves a lot of uncertainty whether you really did get the best path. I suspect even the random music might be useful to manipulate for lag purposes.
Even so, the RNG runs every frame, and one rather pronounced source of randomness is that treasure rooms select an exit at random. If a room uses the RNG to locate an exit, it is possible that your eight frames of savings are all lost by that RNG getting the right exit. I'd like to call it a "frame rule" based on RNG.
Then again, I hate every bubble I've come across. Not one of them made me feel good about passing them. Their random movements make me feel I could get past them more quickly. I just took anything that looked reasonably fast and called it a good day.
I haven't considered too deeply the consequences of the route done in a speedrun by Jeff Feasel at SpeedDemosArchive. The 10 potions in the world 2 clue room look real interesting, as lag is immense wherever you go. Still, something to think about in case someone wants to improve on this run.

Nach: Nice run, good audience response, accepting as improvement to existing run.
Spikestuff: Things to cry about and do, Publishing.

TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4699: FatRatKnight's NES Gauntlet in 11:38.92
mklip2001
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I saw FODA's run a long time ago. I knew some things about this game, but I couldn't really follow his run since I had no real idea how the stages were laid out. (I had the same issue with Legacy of the Wizard, but I found that game easier to follow along with.) Thanks to your subtitles with this one, I have much more of a clue of how to follow along, and that's made all the difference here. I'm sorry they were hard to write, but I wanted to make sure you knew they were much appreciated. I wish I could say that I could really tell where your improvements were, or that I noticed the improved lag management, but I personally can't. However, I can still say this is a pretty dynamite run you have here. Great job! Now this run makes me think of Nethack...
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Spikestuff
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Temp Encode: Link to video Subs Included (web soft subs)
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
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Nice. that said i'm also curious how quickly the game can be beaten if you clear all clue rooms. you are intended to have to clear all of them to get the code.
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Sweet, you've brought back finishing on 1 energy!
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
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Yes vote from me. THis is one of my favorite games from when I was a kid. Never beat it, but I played it a lot. Very entertaining.
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 335
under non TAS conditions it can be beaten with one elf, or with one wizard if you re really lucky (get good treasure room RNG) The elf with extra speed is the only character that can always pass the world 5 treasure rooms regardless of luck. The magic is very important for beating the game at all, and only elf+potion and wizard have good magic. the elf is also a very good fighter, even though he's supposed to be the second weakest (he can mow down grunts like it's no tomorrow). Even the valkyrie and the warrior get mauled very rapidly by the FAST enemies, so their supposed better fighting is no help. With TWO wizards, its' possible to make the treasure rooms on world 5 every time by taking turns with each room. this was how i beat it back in the day.
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Great game choice as always, FatRatKnight! :)
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Very nice. Watched it again just to read the subtitles.
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No vote for using the Elf! :p
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Thanks for the run, FatRatKnight, and thanks for the encode, Spikestuff! The subtitles were a big help in explaining what was going on and in particular explaining what the small detours were for. It's impressive how, uh, reckless the run can be, thanks to the health refills after every treasure room. I can't imagine that Gauntlet II will be so forgiving, whenever someone gets around to tackling it...
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
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Various comments and replies. Nice to know how helpful my subtitles were. The improvements are difficult to spot without carefully going through both runs, even for me. Thank you for the temporary encode! I was hoping for some in my prior submissions, but alas. And thanks some more for the time to add my subtitles in there. I'm guessing clearing all the clue rooms (including picking up the clue before leaving) would add a minute or two. Then again, even a realtime run can correctly "guess" the vault combination, whatever one of 32 is randomly selected, by looking at their password. The problem, though, is that the clue we get won't be readily visible, due to the fact the related screen will be cleared in a frame or two. On the other hand, we'd have the perfect excuse to pick up 10 potions. Before, I saw my run ended with 10 Health. That's no good, that's far too high. Now, how to reduce it? Oh, I also noticed some of these endgame enemies were doing precisely 9 damage per hit. It then became my goal to intentionally take one more hit in order to end with 1 HP, and sure enough, I can do so without losing time. I'm starting to think this TAS will hit Moons.
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Dang, this game looks pretty hard! This was pretty sweet and was really fast paced. As stated previously, the subtitles are a nice touch too. Really good at informing the viewer on the strats you're doing
Ford
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The subtitles make it. Just knowing all the bull the game throws at you makes watching this all the better.
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 335
btw, there's even MORE BS for the honest player who isn't looking up the vault code online. The part at which people first tend to throw their controllers is the invisible world. This is because of one truly EVIL design choice. The first would 4 clue room requires a key to get the clue. there is no key reachable in that level if you don't already have one. most players will be empty of keys coming into world 4 the first time. there are no keys in ANY of the world 4 levels before the clue room. Typical chain of events. 1) miss clue room the first time. swear, reset and continue. 2) miss clue room second time. swear, reset, and continue 3) find clue room. see clue right there taunting you from behind a locked door you don't have a key for. gnash your teeth as you go hunting for a key. swear loudly cuz you can't find one, reset, and continue. 4) discover that no, you didn't miss any keys in the earlier levels, there aren't any. Swear like a mofo because you stopped recording every single password you ever got, and because of that you have to start all OVER and do all the other clue rooms AGAIN, and this time remember to save a key from world three. Possibly ragequit the game forever. Fortunately i DID have the previous password to go back to, so i didn't throw my controller. But that was one of the worst dick moves ever.
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Derakon wrote:
Thanks for the run, FatRatKnight, and thanks for the encode, Spikestuff! The subtitles were a big help in explaining what was going on and in particular explaining what the small detours were for. It's impressive how, uh, reckless the run can be, thanks to the health refills after every treasure room. I can't imagine that Gauntlet II will be so forgiving, whenever someone gets around to tackling it...
Gauntlet II is actually an arcade port, and thus has no defined ending. the objective is to gain the maximum score for the lowest number of coins inserted. That said clearing all 100 levels on one coin (after then it starts repeating) would be interesting. (you would need to manipulate all the locked chests to have food, if that is even possible)
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zaphod77 wrote:
Derakon wrote:
Thanks for the run, FatRatKnight, and thanks for the encode, Spikestuff! The subtitles were a big help in explaining what was going on and in particular explaining what the small detours were for. It's impressive how, uh, reckless the run can be, thanks to the health refills after every treasure room. I can't imagine that Gauntlet II will be so forgiving, whenever someone gets around to tackling it...
Gauntlet II is actually an arcade port, and thus has no defined ending. the objective is to gain the maximum score for the lowest number of coins inserted. That said clearing all 100 levels on one coin (after then it starts repeating) would be interesting. (you would need to manipulate all the locked chests to have food, if that is even possible)
100? Please. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhAHbQNVswY
Joined: 1/13/2007
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i repeat. there are only 100 levels. the game loops LONG before level 999. It just starts randomly mirroring the levels once you reach what was level 6 or 8 before. arcade goes from 999 to 8 on gauntlet 1, and 999 to level 6 on gauntlet II. Gauntlet 2 NES is not accurate because it goes from 999 to 1. :)
nesrocks
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About the vault code: You don't need to hack the game, break the vault code combination or look it up online. You can play the game several times, find all the notes yourself and write it down. Afterall, it's just 31 possibilities. Or, more easily, you can do it once and restart until you get the same, and then speedrun it. This is acquired knowledge on the game, and don't we all do that before speedrunning any game? Awesome run. Love the new tricks and knowledge of the game engine. I hadn't noticed the lag from pushing into walls, or that you could go through tiles diagonally. Considering that the only improvements I knew about were lag management and the switch panel on room 17, and those weren't the biggest improvements, I'm impressed. That last boss fight looks like a fight now. And hell yes ending with 1 life left. Obvious yes vote. edit: My run was TEN years old??? What the...
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [2863] NES Gauntlet by FatRatKnight in 11:38.92
Joined: 1/13/2007
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nesrocks wrote:
About the vault code: You don't need to hack the game, break the vault code combination or look it up online. You can play the game several times, find all the notes yourself and write it down. Afterall, it's just 31 possibilities. Or, more easily, you can do it once and restart until you get the same, and then speedrun it. This is acquired knowledge on the game, and don't we all do that before speedrunning any game?
I still think it's bs, but speedruns.com seems to agree. they define 100% as actually getting all the clues instead of restarting until you get a password with the right starting letter to get the fastest to enter password. This is all because they couldn't spare four bits in the password to store the number of clues collected to make sure you actually got them, even though two bits were wasted in the password scheme (no password goes past the start of world 5, meaning the 5th room bit never gets set, and the most significant treasure bit will never be set in real play, and is unlikely to be set with password hacking, because you can't start with over 1998 after first treasure room, and would need an infinite loop that gains health.