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Post subject: Evidence for Giants? No way! ...way? (Updated 12/18)
ars4326
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So a couple of months back over the summer, I got into digging into the online preserved archives of the New York Times (they had quite a good deal going on for a monthly web subscription). While going way back into the 1800's/early 1900's, I was quite surprised when I began uncovering archaeological reports of giant skeletons (some well over 9ft. tall) being uncovered. With winter looming in here in the States, I may start investing more into this research project. In the meantime, feel free to check out these screen captures I made of the various newspaper reports, in question. TABLE OF CONTENTS I. Newspaper Reports II. American Indian Tribes
I. NEWSPAPER REPORTS
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New York Times: Nov. 21, 1856
SKELETON OF A GIANT FOUND
Summary: Originally sourced from the Wheeling Times, decayed human skeletal remains were discovered in East Wheeling on the property of one Sheriff Wheeler (at his vineyard). Both the Sheriff and "a brother in the craft locale" reportedly measured the skeleton and were prepared to stand by claims that it measured 10 feet 9 inches in length. Its jaws and teeth were also claimed to be "as large as those of a horse". The bones were then reportedly kept at the Sheriff's office. Screen capture within source TO DO: The published archives of The Wheeling Times could possibly provide follow-up information on this report...
New York Times: Dec. 25, 1868
Reported Discovery of a Huge Skeleton.
Summary: Originally sourced from the Dec. 18th edition of the Sank Rapids Sentinel, city quarrymen allegedly found the petrified remains of a giant human skeleton embedded in solid granite rock (with the remains, itself, further embedded in sand). The length of the skeleton was measured to be 10 feet, 9 1/2 inches, with the skull measuring 31 1/2 inches in circumference, and the femur 26 1/4 inches, etc. Estimated weight, when alive, was stated to be 906 lbs. The petrified bones, themselves, reportedly weighed 304 1/4 lbs. No follow-up institution was named to confirm or archive the finds. Screen capture within source TO DO: Research archives of the Sank Rapids Sentinel (Minn.) for possible follow-up reports
New York Times: May 25, 1882
THE BONES OF A GIANT FOUND.
Summary: Allegedly discovered in the Red River Valley region of St. Paul, Minn., a perfectly preserved skull of "heroic size" was uncovered in a burial mound amongst the bones of male, female, and animal skeletal remains. "Abnormally large" body bones were found near the skull, as well (who was evidently deemed a giant, in the report). A thorough investigation of the burial mound was reportedly scheduled by the Historical Society. Screen capture within source TO DO: Research possible follow-up sources with St. Paul's historical newspaper archives. Research the archives of The Historical Society
New York Times: Nov. 12, 1883
FORTY INCHES AROUND THE SKULL.
Summary: A rather brief report emanating from Wheeling, West Virginia, where a human skull allegedly measuring 40 inches in circumference around the skull was uncovered in the process of road construction. No other bones where reportedly found nearby. The height of the skeleton was estimated to be 14 feet high. No follow-up institution was named to confirm or archive the find. Screen capture within source TO DO: Wheeling, or Preston County, might have some historical archives available online...
New York Times: Oct. 3, 1892
A Race of Giants in Old Gaul.
Summary: Originally sourced from the London Globe, human bones of allegedly "double the ordinary" enormous size were found in Castelnau (Herault), and were reportedly confirmed by one Professor Kieger. While admitting they were of a "very tall race", he nonetheless found their dimensions to be abnormal and of apparent "morbid growth". Screen capture within source TO DO: Research archives of the London Globe, as well as look into any available published notes from Professor Kieger.
New York Times: Dec. 20, 1897
WISCONSIN MOUND OPENED.
Skeleton Found of a Man Over Nine Feet High with an Enormous Skull.
Summary: Found within (at the time) one of three recently discovered mounds in Maple Creek, Wisconsin, was a human skeleton of "gigantic size". The fairly preserved bones reportedly measured over 9 ft. high, with the skull being the size of a "half bushel" measure. Although no follow-up institution was named, it was reported that the other two mounds were soon scheduled for future excavation. Screen capture within source TO DO: Research Maple Creek newspaper archives...
New York Times: Feb. 11, 1902
GIANT SKELETONS FOUND.
Archaeologists to Send Expedition to Explore Graveyards in New Mexico Where Bodies Were Unearthed.
Summary: Antiquarians and archaeologists have announced plans of preparing an expedition in the region of Guadalupe, New Mexico, where an old burial ground reportedly yielded human skeletons of "enormous size". The bones of a frame allegedly of at least 12 feet in length were discovered in an ancient burial mound located on a local rancher's property. Among other measurements, the forearm was reportedly four feet long, while the chest had a circumference of seven feet. The rancher, Luciana Quintana, is claimed to have uncovered many other burial places and stated that "perhaps thousands" of such giant skeletons would be found. He bases this supposition on traditional stories of the early Spanish Invasion, which reportedly gives detailed knowledge concerning a race of giants who once existed in the region. Screen capture within source TO DO: Many areas can be further researched here, included archives of Los Angeles newspaper reports, the local archives of Guadalupe and Meso Rico, as well further looking into the written historical accounts of the early Spanish Invasion.
New York Times: May 4, 1908
GIANT SKELETONS' FOUND.
Cave in Mexico Gives Up the Bones of an Ancient Race.
Summary: One Charles C. Clapp, involved in a mining business in Mexico, reportedly discovered a cave containing 200 giant skeletal remains of men, each exceeding eight feet in height. Upon arranging one of these skeletons, Clapp alleged the length of it to be 8 feet 11 inches, with a skull measurement of 18 inches (from front to back), molars big enough to "crack a coconut", and a femur bone reaching up to his thigh. Clapp reported these finds to one Professor Agassiz. The report concluded that the remains belonged to a race of giants who predated the Aztecs. Screen capture within source TO DO: Research further into the published works of Professor Agassiz, and see whether or not there are any other published accounts of Charles Clapp's testimony.
New York Times: July 14, 1916
GIANTS' BONES IN MOUND.
Scientists Unearth Relics of Indians Who Lived 700 Years Ago.
Summary: Prof. Alanson B. Skinner (American Indian Museum), Prof. W.K. Morehead (Phillips Andover Academy) and Dr. George Donahue (Pennsylvania State Historian) allegedly discovered an Indian burial mound located on Tioga Point, outside of Sayre, Pennsylvania, containing the skeletal remains of 68 men. The average height of these skeletons were stated to be 7 feet, with many being "much taller". Giant stown-hewn axes were also found alongside their graves. A skull, along with a few bones, were reportedly sent to the American Indian Museum. (Sayre, Pennsylvania, is located at the junction of the Chemung and Susquehanna rivers, and was once home to the American Indian tribe of the Susquehannock) Screen capture within source TO DO: Research American Indian Museum archives, as well as the published works of the three men identified in the article.
New York Times: March 17, 1924
FIND SKELETON OF GIANT
Idaho Road Men Dig Up Bones of Prehistoric Herbivorous Woman
Summary: Members of the state highway dept. allegedly uncovered a "huge skeleton" measuring over 8 feet in height. Curiously, the upper and lower jaws reportedly contained only 10 teeth each; all intact. Three physicians were reported to have pronounced the gender to be female. The lower jaw and vertebrae were reportedly sent to the Smithsonian institute, for further analysis. Screen capture within source TO DO: Research archives of the Smithsonian Institute...
II. AMERICAN INDIAN TRIBES
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SUSQUEHANNOCKS
(cross-reference NY Times Report: July 14, 1916)
Captain John Smith's Journals: Smith's Second Voyage (July 24, 1608) [SMITH AND HIS MEN MEET THE SUSQUEHANNOCKS NEAR HAVRE DE GRACE] Hatchets from the Sasquesahanocks. "Many hatchets, knives, peeces of iron, and brasse, we saw amongst them, which they reported to have from the Sasquesahanocks, a mightie people and mortall enemies with the Massawomeks. The Sasquesahanocks inhabit upon the chiefe Spring of these foure branches of the Bayes head, two dayes journey higher then our barge could passe for rocks, yet we prevailed with the Interpreter to take with him another Interpreter, to perswade the Sasquesahanocks to come visit us, for their language are different. Three or foure dayes we expected their returne, then sixtie of those gyant-like people came downe, with presents of Venison, Tobacco-pipes three foot in length, Baskets, Targets, Bowes and Arrowes." [modern English translation] "Many hatchets, knives, pieces of iron, and brass, we saw amongst them, which they reported to have from the Susquehannocks, a mighty people and mortal enemies with the Massaomeks. The Susquehannocks inhabit upon the chief Spring of these four branches of the Bayes head, two days journey higher than our barge could pass [due to the] rocks, yet we prevailed with the Interpreter to take with him another Interpreter, to persuade the Susquehannocks to come visit us for their language are different. Three or four days we expected their return, then 60 of those giant-like people came down, with presents of venison, tobacco pipes three foot in length, baskets, targets, bows and arrows." Henry W. Shoemaker Tales of the Bald Eagle Mountains in Central Pennsylvania (1912) Chapter XI. THE GIANTESS (Story of McElhattan Mountain) [pp. 208-11] "When the great flood of St. Patrick's Day, 1865, laid bare, in the bed of McElhattan Creek, the gigantic statue of a giantess carved out of black flint, the old settlers, and the few Indians who remained at Nichol's Run, predicted a series of disasters to the neighborhood...the figure was carved from the stone during the last years of the sixteenth century. When it was uncovered by the flood of 1865, the accounts which appeared in the Clinton County newspapers heralded it as a relic of remote antiquity, and it would have been generally accepted as such, had it not been for the "old timers" who knew the legend of its comparatively recent origin. For once in its career it was only a seven days wonder. The paragraphs in the papers attracted a few antiquarians to the scene and the native mountaineers marvelled and brought their families, but the closing events of the Civil War and Lincoln's assassination soon overshadowed it. A freshet in September broke the drift pile which had diverted the stream from its original course, and the "Giantess of McElhattan", as she was called, was covered once more by the rushing current. For a few weeks those who passed over a prostrate beech tree which served as a footbridge nearby, could see the angry, revengeful features of the giantess peering up at them through the clear water, but sand, and pebbles and branches of trees drifted across it, and were giving it a brand new shroud. With the Spring of the next year, the face was entirely covered, and only the sable outlines of the breasts were reflected through the limpid depths. In another year these were covered, and with it went the last memory of the Giantess, to rest until Destiny sends her forth again..."
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
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Grabs popcorn and waits for ars4326's mystery video game to come out
But seriously though, this would be (more) interesting if they had pictures as well. Continue the research!
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solarplex wrote:
But seriously though, this would be (more) interesting if they had pictures as well.
Oh, I've seen hundreds of pictures. They're usually found on the same sites that post crop circles, UFO sightings, pyramids, evidence of Atlantis, and conspiracy theories... or the sites debunking them. A cute self-contained ecosystem. Even if some of that information is factually true, the sheer amount of irrelevant noise makes it extremely unpleasant to waddle through in search of solid proof. And the people who propagate the noise are pretty special as well. A couple of my friends turned into a unique breed of escapists thanks to that.
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Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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Are we seriously going through yet another silly conspiracy theory? *sigh*
ars4326
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Warp wrote:
Are we seriously going through yet another silly conspiracy theory? *sigh*
If you're going to come here to make belittling remarks, then I'm simply going to ask you not to participate in this thread.
moozooh wrote:
Even if some of that information is factually true, the sheer amount of irrelevant noise makes it extremely unpleasant to waddle through in search of solid proof. And the people who propagate the noise are pretty special as well. A couple of my friends turned into a unique breed of escapists thanks to that.
Trust me: As a University undergraduate, I definitely know the feeling in having to waddle through a bunch of hearsay, etc. in looking for solid evidence/sources. This project does interest me, nonetheless!
solarplex wrote:
Grabs popcorn and waits for ars4326's mystery video game to come out
But seriously though, this would be (more) interesting if they had pictures as well. Continue the research!
Thanks, Solarplex :) If I recall right, these kinds of archaeological reports in the NY Times archives stopped appearing entirely up to the point of around World War I/World War II. I'm also still very curious if these past alleged finds made their way into, say, any kind of museums or forensic labs. Also: I'm wondering if, similar to the NY Times, other long-running newspapers have an online archive up and running. That would be very interesting to look into, as well (and, of course, I would post the screen captures).
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
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I'm wondering if any of those skeletons on modern photos I've linked have made it to labs and not ended up a hoax. One would think that the scientific community would be in uproar already. Anthropology is not exactly a field where something new and exciting happens every day... especially considering it deals only with the past matters (and the ever-shrinking body of physical evidence). A giant skeleton that's not simply an extreme singular mutation would easily be Nobel prize material, but no-one seems to have claimed that one. I'm pretty certain something like that would be more deserving of a prize compared to stuff like "the discovery of a bacterium and its role in gastritis". One can see why I'm not keeping my hopes up. :\
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Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
ars4326
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moozooh wrote:
I'm wondering if any of those skeletons on modern photos I've linked have made it to labs and not ended up a hoax. One would think that the scientific community would be in uproar already. Anthropology is not exactly a field where something new and exciting happens every day... especially considering it deals only with the past matters (and the ever-shrinking body of physical evidence). A giant skeleton that's not simply an extreme singular mutation would easily be Nobel prize material, but no-one seems to have claimed that one. I'm pretty certain something like that would be more deserving of a prize compared to stuff like "the discovery of a bacterium and its role in gastritis". One can see why I'm not keeping my hopes up. :\
Absolutely! I mean, the tallest person ever recorded in modern history (iirc) is Robert Pershing Wadlow, who was just a hair shy of reaching 9 ft. tall. So when I see articles, in the New York Times of all places, claiming that archaeological finds were once discovered containing multiple skeletons whose height allegedly exceeding 9 and 12 ft. tall, I sit here and ask myself ...well, what happened to them?
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
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ars4326 wrote:
I mean, the tallest person ever recorded in modern history (iirc) is Robert Pershing Wadlow, who was just a hair shy of reaching 9 ft. tall. So when I see articles, in the New York Times of all places, claiming that archaeological finds were once discovered containing multiple skeletons whose height allegedly exceeding 9 and 12 ft. tall, I sit here and ask myself ...well, what happened to them?
Probably because, assuming they exist, their body would've been in pain for the knees along with heart problems. A search gives these quotes for Robert:
Wadlow's size began to take its toll: he required leg braces to walk and had little feeling in his legs and feet. Despite these difficulties, he never used a wheelchair.
Instead of a blessing, extreme height can be a curse. Lanky people have to stoop through doorways and struggle to fit in cars. Taller folks are more prone to certain maladies as well, such as joint and cardiovascular problems.
Also this. It's quite a disadvantage for giants.
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ars4326 wrote:
If you're going to come here to make belittling remarks, then I'm simply going to ask you not to participate in this thread.
You can ask all you want. Silly conspiracy theories of this caliber deserve nothing but ridicule. If you are honestly interested in all those hoaxes and image manipulation works, you can start here: http://www.snopes.com/photos/odd/giantman.asp http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/giantcoverup.asp http://www.snopes.com/photos/odd/giantskulls.asp
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jlun2 wrote:
Probably because, assuming they exist, their body would've been in pain for the knees along with heart problems.
Well, those people are anomalies, so it's expected that they are going to have all sorts of health issues with their height. The supposed "true" giants would have sturdier bodies adapted to the size and weight over the course of generations—a luxury mr. Wadlow couldn't have. I mean if you suddenly elongate a cow's neck it won't even be able to lift it off the ground, but giraffes are doing just fine because they're built for it.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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Warp wrote:
You can ask all you want. Silly conspiracy theories of this caliber deserve nothing but ridicule.
I see. So you're going to disrespect my cordial request and come on to this thread and ridicule it, anyway. You know what, Warp? I'm not your dad. You have every right to post wherever you want on this site. I will state however, that your attitude does little to endear you. So as I've stated to you on another thread: Post away, and to your heart's content. But don't expect a further reply from me. And as for everyone else: All I ask is for some mutual courtesy and respect. I happen to find the subject of giants to be interesting. I also thought that the NY Times articles were remarkable in their claims, and thought it would be cool to share in this thread. That's it.
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
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Hum... this does sound like a hoax, but there seems to be some reasonable amount of evidence supporting this. Well, evolutionarily, it wouldn't be that nonsense if a specie similar to the human beings, but much bigger, had existed in the past. The problem is that they should probably have been already identified and cataloged, shouldn't them? If modern archaeology has managed to find really old and rare fossils, why wouldn't they find those? Since they are big mammals, they are definitely newer than dinosaurs, for example. And if they were extremely rare so that even modern archaeology wouldn't be able to find them, how would them be found in the 1800s? Well, I personally believe this is just a hoax, but anyway, there is no reason to not discuss it. Probably many stuff we know as truth now were though to be a hoax in the past.
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Ever heard of Piltdown Man? You shouldn't believe in everything dug out of the ground, especially during the late 1800s' paleontology craze. Heed the quote in the Cardiff Giant link: There's a sucker born every minute.
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The identity of the Piltdown forger remains unknown, suspects have included [...] Arthur Conan Doyle.
!!! :D The plot, it thickens!
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Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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ars, Because of the square-cube law, none of these skeletons could have possibly been viable humans. There's a reason why Robert Wadlow died young. This is more than enough to disprove any purported evidence of giants. I know you want the world to be interesting, and it is, just not in the ways you want.
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I would say that newspaper publishers were desperate for every last bit of sensational news they could get, leading to not a whole lot of fact checking, so a bunch of hoaxes could easily get through.
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I konw the Пра́вда‎(Pravda) always published the news like these exceptional, supernatural, UFOs and Aliens. The pravda's chinese name means truth newspaper, so we have a joke that Pravda never tell the truth.
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Every question is interesting. With so much information these days, it is sometimes difficult to tell how trustworthy some claim is. No worries! Philosophy of science gives us some tools for evaluating information more accurately: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science Everyone of us can very easily be mistaken, but luckily we have a checklist for that, so just see through the list whether you have succumbed to a cognitive bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases Also recommended: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory This is tool-assisted thinking. Use all the tools to overcome human limitations. This way your model of reality becomes more accurate. After you have acquired a model of reality that explains many phenomena with good accuracy, you can easily see whether giants fit into reality or not.
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Some people want to believe these hoaxes, or at the very least consider them within the realm of possibility, because it excites their imaginations, and it, perhaps, makes the dull, boring real world seem more interesting and exciting. I think this is sad, because it incites people into actually believing falsities, hoaxes and fairytales (rather than just taking them for what they are). It's even sadder because they are missing on actual reality, which can be extremely interesting all on its own. You don't have to resort to conspiracy theories, hoaxes and fairytales to find wonder and amazement in the world. Reality can oftentimes be much more interesting than someone's imaginary tales. For example, during the past decade or so I have been really interested in astrophysics. (It has always been an interesting subject, but it hasn't been until the last decade or so that I have started to really look into it and reading stuff about it.) I find it really exciting and interesting. We have a small glimpse of how the universe really works, and we can actually measure and test it. We have an understanding of what makes things move, how gravity behaves and what interesting effects it has, how stars form and what their life cycle is, how elements form, and so on and so forth. We have predicted and found all kinds of really weird stuff that happens as a consequence of the simple laws of physics that govern the universe, and in many cases we have been able to corroborate that these predictions have indeed be true. Why would you want to believe in fantasy when reality can be so much more exciting and interesting? Why would you want to believe some hoax, when you can find out things that we can actually corroborate via observation, measurement and testing? Why would you want to believe in imaginary tales, when reality is wondrous and weird all in itself? Cast aside those fantasies. Educate yourself on how the universe really works. That's a much more interesting and productive subject.
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Does this mean that... Hagrid is dead? :(
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Warp wrote:
Why would you want to believe in fantasy when reality can be so much more exciting and interesting? Why would you want to believe some hoax, when you can find out things that we can actually corroborate via observation, measurement and testing? Why would you want to believe in imaginary tales, when reality is wondrous and weird all in itself? Cast aside those fantasies. Educate yourself on how the universe really works. That's a much more interesting and productive subject.
Totally agreed. I assure anyone reading this thread that quantum mechanics is orders of magnitude more strange and interesting than "OMG! Really big people!"
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Bobo the King wrote:
Warp wrote:
Why would you want to believe in fantasy when reality can be so much more exciting and interesting? Why would you want to believe some hoax, when you can find out things that we can actually corroborate via observation, measurement and testing? Why would you want to believe in imaginary tales, when reality is wondrous and weird all in itself? Cast aside those fantasies. Educate yourself on how the universe really works. That's a much more interesting and productive subject.
Totally agreed. I assure anyone reading this thread that quantum mechanics is orders of magnitude more strange and interesting than "OMG! Really big people!"
In that case Bobo, how about creating a new thread that discusses quantum mechanics? In the meantime (for those who are interested in this topic), I've uncovered a couple of more New York Times articles about alleged discoveries of giant skeletons. I'll update my first post here later on, to display the new content.
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ars4326: While you've received a variety of responses to this topic, some more or less on-topic than others and some more or less civil than others, I note you've only selected specific posters to answer to (both of which were more in the negative direction) and left aside a few (imo) interesting, and rational/scientific discussion points like e.g this and this. Do you have any interest in discussing with posts like these? So far, I've seen you just post out links and decry a few people's posts, but for this topic to have any value, I think some actual discussion would be nice.
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ars4326 wrote:
In the meantime (for those who are interested in this topic), I've uncovered a couple of more New York Times articles about alleged discoveries of giant skeletons. I'll update my first post here later on, to display the new content.
Ah, the 19th century New York Times, that bastion of trustworthy and reliable peer-reviewed science. If it's printed on NYT, it must be true. If it was printed there over a century ago, it must be doubly so. Btw, I have a bridge to sell you, if you are interested. I can give you a New York Times article about it.

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