Post subject: Mario & Luigi
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
I'm surprised no one's made a topic for this yet. The recent SDA speed run clocks in at 4:26, but I believe a sub 4-hour run is certainly possible as a TAS. The strategies the Speed Runner used seemed pertty solid, and I was impressed he managed to avoid any damage at all, which must have taken a lot of practice. Avoiding all unnecessary 'normal' battles and only getting EXP from bosses gives you all you need to finish the game. Save for the few enemies you have to fight in the Stardust Fields to get coins, and in the Desert Valley to keep the Princess from being kidnapped. There is one change, though, that I still can't decide if it would be worth doing. Getting enough Beans to get the Great Force item, which doubles the damage given and recieved by the Bros. Recieving damage is a non-issue since you'll be dodging everything. However there aren't a whole lot of /long/ battles where doing double damage would pay off, compared to the time spent getting it. You need to obtain four different 'coffee' drinks in order to get the Great Force. It's not likely that playing the Border Jump game to get 15 more Hee Beans, digging up 15 more Chuckle Beans, and manipulating enemy drops to get 30 Woo beans would be worth the time saved getting the Great Force, but it's something to think about. It may also be possible to manipulate luck so that you get the 'Advance' version of Bros attacks faster, but I'm not sure how much that can be altered. Buying armor is totally unnecessary, save for the #1 Trousers. The defense isn't an issue, but being able to strike first in battle is. In this department, the speed run had it good. Though he had loads more Syrups than he needed at the end of the game. With correcting all the little errors throughout, a sub-4-hour run is certainly possible. Someone (more experienced than me) should certainly give this a shot, and it'll look nice next to Super Mario RPG. :>
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Talk to GSGold, he made a test run. Also, it's called Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga. Also, the reason that he never takes any damage is because Dragondarch super segmented that run. When you're only doing 5 minute long segments on average, it is very easy to redo parts until you get them good enough. I, personally, don't like the approach he took for this game.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Post subject: Re: Mario & Luigi
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 89
Spoony_Bard wrote:
he managed to avoid any damage at all, which must have taken a lot of practice.
There's one attack the Chukolator does that's impossible to dodge. It's the projectile attack when he's right next to Mario. I'd have to find some way around that.
There is one change, though, that I still can't decide if it would be worth doing. Getting enough Beans to get the Great Force item, which doubles the damage given and recieved by the Bros. Recieving damage is a non-issue since you'll be dodging everything. However there aren't a whole lot of /long/ battles where doing double damage would pay off, compared to the time spent getting it. You need to obtain four different 'coffee' drinks in order to get the Great Force. It's not likely that playing the Border Jump game to get 15 more Hee Beans, digging up 15 more Chuckle Beans, and manipulating enemy drops to get 30 Woo beans would be worth the time saved getting the Great Force, but it's something to think about.
I'm not sure how much damage the Bros. will be doing by the end of the game, but if it turns out I'm dealing far more 1s than I'm comfortable with I'll consider trying to at least get the Bonus Ring (for double EXP)
It may also be possible to manipulate luck so that you get the 'Advance' version of Bros attacks faster, but I'm not sure how much that can be altered.
I believe it's actually based on how many Bros. moves you preform. I consistently get Advanced. Splash or Bounce Bros. about the same time whenever I play on the GBA.
Buying armor is totally unnecessary, save for the #1 Trousers. The defense isn't an issue, but being able to strike first in battle is. In this department, the speed run had it good. Though he had loads more Syrups than he needed at the end of the game.
I actually didn't think about this. Version 487 will probably have this in. I have no confidence in my TAS-age
With correcting all the little errors throughout, a sub-4-hour run is certainly possible. Someone (more experienced than me) should certainly give this a shot, and it'll look nice next to Super Mario RPG. :>
This test run will probably be about 4 hours, but sub-4 is clearly possible, especially once I begin optimizing battles.
SWOOOOOOOM
Joined: 7/13/2005
Posts: 19
I have gone through the game wiht the minimal amount of fights, stardust fields has 102 coins in boxes, I dunno if it s faster than fighting I have let every last goomba kidnap the princess(zzzzz) and that one point in joke's end, I think you can run from it.. By Wendy Koopa, you can barely win (I won by luck) Bowletta can be def. down'd, but Cackletta2 can not. by that point (I only had the basic equipment) I could do 40-50 a turn (at lvl 26 each) with the hammer bros moves I assume if you level up a couple of times, fight the goombas, and get great force, and better equipment, and abuse luck to get max stat gains form the end of each fight,you could beat this game at sub 4-hours (I'd imagine that tapping a every frame could lead to a very damaging Mario hammer bros attack total)
Attempting:Snoopy - Magic Show (GB)
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
I think it is best to simply time the average fight in stardust fields and compare how much time it takes to get enough exp to level while getting a certain number of coins to how much time it takes to find the necessary coins. Actually, since we already know exactly what fights will take place in the game, it would be very very easy to just use stardust as a buffer to make sure you get that last level right before the Cackletta/Bowser fight. An extra level is extra damage for every fight after stardust, which might eventually make up for time leveling up in stardust (prob not, though). Yeah, Chopper Bros. did LOTS of damage in GSGold's movie.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 89
Yeah, my computer reformatted and I kinda lost this and all my work and I've been too lazy to keep going. I might give it another attempt later on, but we'll see how that goes.
SWOOOOOOOM
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Damnit, man! You would think my constant bothering you to finish an attempt at a movie would get some results. Seriously, all you have to do is recreate Dragorn's movie with optimal walking and fighting. There isn't a whole lot of thought when it comes to this game, aside from getting the stardust field coins and getting the Princess through the desert. Seriously, just take a week or two to bust this out, and then we won't bother you about making a movie anymore. You don't even need to submit it; just finish it.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 89
Okay, fine, damn. I'll go and make something to get you to shut up already.
SWOOOOOOOM
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Good. You do that then.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 89
Nah, changed my mind. I'm lazy, someone else can do this.
SWOOOOOOOM
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
GSGold is just aching for a RockBan...
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Joined: 9/7/2005
Posts: 143
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
I was going to make a topic about MLSS, but I found this, so... I think I got a bad dump or something, because I cannot complete the game. When you get to the T-shirt dyeing part, during the tutorial, I have Luigi hit Mario to get him to shoot the water at the little bomb dudes. Inexplicably, Mario turns 90 degrees to the right and fires that way, effectively crashing the game. You have to hit the bomb dude to proceed, so it freezes in its surprised animation and the game does not continue. Any possible explanations for this?
This guy are sick.
Former player
Joined: 2/2/2005
Posts: 198
Bad dump as suspected.
Hoe
Joined: 7/31/2004
Posts: 183
Location: USA
Is there any thing for this game that could be included in EmuRead to assist in the speed running of this game? I tossed in detection and some basic reads for this game as my first supported game simply to test the software out, but I'm rather lost if there are any valid uses for this software for this game. I played through the Japanese version, so I'm rather shitty with names and story line events, so stuff a bit more specific then english names would be nice.
Former player
Joined: 2/2/2005
Posts: 198
Other than manipulating enemy actions and thus preventing Chuckinator from performing the only unavoidable attack in the game as well as getting some rare enemy drops, M&L has very little to benefit from randomness manipulation. There's no random damage variation, and all the enemy attacks except for the exception given above can be avoided completely with good timing.
Former player
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 484
Location: ­­
That Harhall problem seems to be emulator specific. I recall that it can be circumvented by using a BIOS. Which would mean you have to restart the run regardless.
Hoe
Joined: 7/31/2004
Posts: 183
Location: USA
I need visual boy save states in battles against several differnt bad guy types if any one could possibly provide them. I have updated the features in my program and released the current source and binarys. If some one wishes to help test this out for/with me, that would be awsome. Information and downloads can be found at: http://red-stars.net/content/EmuRead Screen shot Please note, the bottom 3 menu items in the "Informations" tool strip do not currently function.
billybobfred
Other
Joined: 12/2/2005
Posts: 76
Okay, to not freeze at Harhall you need a BIOS. And what exactly is a BIOS and where do I get one? Or do I not need to "get" one? I've sort of already started the run, see, and I would like to not have it freeze halfway through.
I'm just a spectator. There was a time when I tried to participate, but I'm really lazy, so. she/her/hers
Former player
Joined: 3/31/2005
Posts: 192
Location: Argentina
The GBA BIOS is that little program that's within the hardware, which contains the little "Game Boy Advance" logo animation that plays immediately after start-up. It also has the GBA's basic input/output system (hence BIOS).
Player (135)
Joined: 8/27/2004
Posts: 164
Are you using an old version of an emulator? I had exactly the same problem, but then I downloaded a newer version of VBA and the game worked perfectly.
Post subject: GBA BIOS for Mario & Luigi
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
billybobfred wrote:
Okay, to not freeze at Harhall you need a BIOS. And what exactly is a BIOS and where do I get one? Or do I not need to "get" one? I've sort of already started the run, see, and I would like to not have it freeze halfway through.
Yes, you will need to "get" a BIOS from somewhere. It is a file most commonly called "GBA.BIOS" if that helps. Then you have to enable "Use BIOS File" in VBA and also tell it which BIOS file to use from the option next to that in the menu. And then reset the game and start recording a new run with those settings. You can use hex editing to keep parts of the run you already did, but it will not work for anything that relied on luck, unless (if you are really lucky) the BIOS doesn't even change the randomness or frame timing in which case you can transfer all of what you've done so far into the new movie file. EDIT: I didn't see qqwref's post. If he's right and you're using an outdated version of VBA re-recording and that is the cause of the problem, then you don't need to use a BIOS file after all, but you will still need to make a new movie file with the newer version and try transferring your old movie input into it like I said above.
billybobfred
Other
Joined: 12/2/2005
Posts: 76
I'm using a new version of VBA, but I haven't actually gotten far enough to know if the problem even exists. But I don't have a clue where I would find a BIOS...
I'm just a spectator. There was a time when I tried to participate, but I'm really lazy, so. she/her/hers
Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117
I've found a few "GBA BIOSes" floating around on the Internet, but for some reason I never found one that wasn't corrupted. So a few months ago, I got a flash cart, and I used the DumpRom program to dump my own GBA's BIOS; now I've got a perfect BIOS dump (MD5 checksum: a860e8c0b6d573d191e4ec7db1b1e4f6 ; SHA1 checksum: 300c20df6731a33952ded8c436f7f186d25d3492). (Please note, the BIOS on Nintendo DS is different; I have not dumped it yet, but as far as I know it just has one byte changed so GBA games can have exclusive unlockables when played on the NDS, similar to the GBC BIOS being slightly different in the GBA so certain GBC games (eg, Zelda Oracles) have GBA unlockables) Now if only I can either find a perfect M&L: SS dump, or I successfully put together an Xboo cable to dump the game (I'm not good at putting together hardware like that :/). I'd go for TASing this game, it might be one of those things I actually hang onto. I like this game very much
Active player (308)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Although it's somewhat long and it has no warps, this is a good game. I hate speedruns of RPGs, but this one is totally different. By the way, it's not hard to build an XBOO cable... I made one and dumped the BIOS of my GBA. But due to some unknown reason (probably a bug), I could not dump any ROM.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117
well I've got a good dump of the game, but even while using the official BIOS, there's sprite rendering problems in VisualBoyAdvance (random flicker, throughout the game). As fun as TASing it would be, VBA's rendering state isn't pretty