how do you clip through the main entrance of fungitown? could i see a video/vbm? i'm assuming it uses the same trick as the "big skip"?
Yes, I found this yesterday while I was livestreaming. I didn't realize I could just do the "big skip" another time in TAS. In RTA it would be unfeasible (but still possible if you're crazy).
also, i've been considering using the thwomp game to get extra coins for non-tas runs, but you'd have to reload saves a lot. might just be faster to get coins from hitting luigi.
Which game, where? How many coins? In the new TAS I will just collect mushrooms on the way, collect a few extra coins and items, and sell items I don't need to buy more mushrooms. It will be just enough to get 4.0 mush power for Birdo&Popple. After that, I will go to bean town's shop and use the MAX Syrup and the 180 coins from the Birdo&Popple battle to buy mushrooms to get 5.0.
With 5.0 mush power, I can take out Cackletta conveniently fast, because she only reveals her heart for two rounds, and Mario and Luigi happen to do exactly 200 damage in one turn. So I can kill her while she reveals her heart(800HP) only twice.
edit: i just got it doing the "big skip" method. hopefully it's not too hard on console...
Oh nice. I don't think it's hard but there is the possibility that you get stuck in the wall forever. And having a trick like that twice in a console run that takes 2 hours isn't a good thing. Then again, I'm not so dedicated to play Mario & Luigi for 6 hours every day (like Ennopp plays Majora's Mask everyday, or Samura1man plays Mario Sunshine everyday). But if I ever get free time and motivation, I will try it.
Which game, where? How many coins? In the new TAS I will just collect mushrooms on the way, collect a few extra coins and items, and sell items I don't need to buy more mushrooms. It will be just enough to get 4.0 mush power for Birdo&Popple. After that, I will go to bean town's shop and use the MAX Syrup and the 180 coins from the Birdo&Popple battle to buy mushrooms to get 5.0.
it's in the place where you get the second and third hammer upgrade. it's in a cave east of the castle. i actually get the hammer upgrade to smash the rock in front of the desert.
there are two games. i don't know if you remember them but they're luck based games. the first one costs 200 and you can get a new bros attack, 300 coins, or nothing. the second game costs 500 and you can get a new bros attack, 800 coins, or nothing. the second game is blocked by dark rocks but you can just clip through. it might not save time for tas, but if you could somehow luck manipulate it on console, it would save a lot of time...
I finished my test playthrough. I need to make another playthrough and then I can start the new TAS. EDIT: Scratch that, I have to do another test playthrough on top of the two that I already did. For some reason my plan isn't working out the way I want it to.
I also found a little new glitch.
http://i.imgur.com/J7G0Ayi.png
When you walk up there, and then start walking to the right, the Toad will talk to you even though you never pressed A to talk.
Also, you can walk up there and pound Mario, use hand, or start highjumping and it will trigger the dialogue as well.
Joined: 12/1/2012
Posts: 103
Location: New Donk City
Don't know if you got my reply on YouTube, but it turns out that the minimum damage from Chopper Bros. Advance would still be 2 even with Zero-DEF glitch, at least in the NA version (it takes 12 hits to reach that). The attack damage constants do appear to be different between versions, though, so it might merit further testing. I did post an emulator movie that proves that the glitch works, as well.
EDIT: nvm, didn't see your replies. Not sure why the .vbm desynced, either.
Don't know if you got my reply on YouTube, but it turns out that the minimum damage from Chopper Bros. Advance would still be 2 even with Zero-DEF glitch, at least in the NA version (it takes 12 hits to reach that). The attack damage constants do appear to be different between versions, though, so it might merit further testing. I did post an emulator movie that proves that the glitch works, as well.
EDIT: nvm, didn't see your replies. Not sure why the .vbm desynced, either.
When I tested your VBM, the "DEF down" icon below the enemy didn't show and he didn't take more damage, so I don't know what happened. Can you make another VBM and maybe upload an unlisted video of that?
Today I finished more planning, but I'm not done yet... I came short by 20 coins, so my plan was flawed again.... I feel stupid.
And I found a glitch that when you approach the places where Peach talks to you in the desert after each room, the game would start a battle and the game freezes on the yellow screen. This effect could also be carried around for as long as Luigi didn't break out of his barrel, or the brothers used moves like Highjump, Spinjump, Hand (on each other). While the effect is carried around, if you walk up to a sign or a person, the glitch battle would also suddenly start. Pipes and some other interactive places don't work at all (Fungitown lift upwards worked, but downwards didn't). If you enter a normal battle, Luigi would break out of his barrel so the glitch battle would take place right after the normal battle.
Sometimes, instead of the yellow star animation and the yellow screen freeze, the game would outright freeze. And I noticed that holding the select key (and possibly other keys) makes glitchy mess appear on the screen before the glitch battle starts. Sometimes the game lags for 2 seconds before the glitch battle starts.
- test if this glitch effect happens if you approach Peach places without barrel Luigi.
nothing happens. The glitch happens 'because' of the barreled Luigi.
- what happens if you gameover / deathwarp while the effect is carried around?
It will trigger the glitch battle and freeze.
- what happens on the English version?
The English version has more visible results. More graphical glitches, but so far, no actual differences.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmuBAARnRJ8
If this glitch can take me to the gameover screen maybe it can take me to the credits? :P
I will test more tomorrow
What I know about this glitch right now:
- The glitch will crash the game very often.
- It is possible to survive the glitch, so the game does not crash. But no glitching takes place either.
- If you get a glitch result, you will be stuck in a loop of glitch results. So one glitch result happens, and then the next, and the next, etc. until it eventually crashes. It is not possible to survive this loop.
- Glitch results are:
* Inventory cutscene: Bean servant explaining what badges are. You will receive some badges if this cutscene plays.
* Inventory cutscene: Koopa photographer telling you you don't have any photos
* Rope jumping minigame
* Mine cart minigame
* Barreling minigame
* Selling items screen (even if you don't have any, but it is not possible to edit RAM with this)
* map screen with a little icon in the middle. There is a slim chance that you will receive 9 badges of the same type if you don't have any items at all (?).
* Battle vs one goomba or one/two purple shyguy(s) with spears. The unused music 1, no music or some other music track might play.
* Gameover screen. All you can do from there is 'continue from the castle' and that will always crash the game.
- It is possible to get 9 badges of the same type (which is random, for example I got Spiny Badge A once) after you click away the map screen and the selling screen comes up subsequently.
- While glitching, you will receive varying amounts of money. Per glitch event you will get 0~300 coins. Sometimes you will get +1000 suddenly. Because of how fast you can get so much money, it would be very useful for the TAS but you cannot get out of the glitch loop. You also receive items randomly (for example 2 ultra mushrooms out of nowhere).
- This glitch only occurs with the Peach places in the Desert. It does not happen anywhere else in the game to my knowledge (because the game expects Peach to be there, but she isn't so it screws up. Every other cutscene in the game does not have a missing character, and most of the cutscenes I tested cause nothing special.
- It seems that you can increase the likelihood of glitch events if you go into your inventory and display your items, and have Mario use Hammer or Hand. Otherwise the chance of getting a glitch result is very small to none.
- This glitch can be triggered with the "weak version" of the barrel glitch. I.e. from my 2012 TAS, you could go from forest straight to the desert, instead of getting Mario's Hand and then going to the desert.
- It is also possible to survive this glitch if you break Luigi's barrel while also hitting a !-block.
Oh god. M&LSS, SotN and MM get broken on almost the same day.
EDIT: Btw, what is the WR and route for non-TAS in this game currently? I was mulling speedrunning it in my head today.
Oh god. M&LSS, SotN and MM get broken on almost the same day.
EDIT: Btw, what is the WR and route for non-TAS in this game currently? I was mulling speedrunning it in my head today.
Dragondarch has a 3:26 from 2006. (segmented, English) [ video ]
I have a 4:35:28 from 2013(?). (RTA, English) [ I lost the video]
I have a 2:43:42 from 2013(?). (RTA, Japanese glitched) [ video ]
I'm pretty sure it is possible to beat Dragondarch's segmented time with a good RTA run. I never really tried.. I merely made a couple attempts without practising and 4:35:28 was the best I got.
I think Dragondarch doesn't use the Splash Bros strat for Queen bean so that's 2~3 minutes you could save.
My glitched Japanese run is also pretty bad, I lost over 30 minutes because the glitch was unforgiving. There may be better strategies nowadays. Going to Fungitown (thus doing the huge skip twice) could become mandatory in RTA.
And nobody else has run this game, or at least I've never seen anyone. I have seen a couple people that told me they are interested or asked for routing help or help on how to do the glitches, but I still haven't seen anyone do attempts...
I think 3:10 English and 2:00 Japanese would be good goal times that a good dedicated speedrunner could reach.
As for the route, it's been so long, I don't recall much...If you're just looking to make fullgame speedruns, I suggest you just try to play through the game. That's what I did. I just played through the game not even knowing the route. After the 2nd or 3rd playthrough, you would start refining your route, and eventually try to figure out what items to get where, etc.
As for Japanese, I made a couple guides and videos but I don't recall much. Info may be outdated. Just tell me if you want to run English or Japanese and maybe I can help later..
-------------------------
I'm not really sure what to do next, as for the TAS. I don't know how good chances are on triggering the credits. Maybe I just got a once-in-a-lifetime Credits trigger and I would waste my time making a new TAS and getting stuck trying to trigger the credits.
I could take my current TAS and try it from there, but I lose about 5 seconds getting unneeded items (which to me, is a lot).
Maybe Luigi's Pea badge could be skipped for the Popple&Rookie fight... But I got pretty good luck in Stardust fields and I'd rather not want to redo that, possibly never getting such good luck again, thus losing instead of gaining time...
I want to do more testing before I start on a TAS. I don't want it to be "hit or miss". When I worked on an Earthbound TAS with pirohiko in 2010ish, I wasn't sure how reliable the tent glitch would be but I did know it could be reproduced if I tried long enough. I want that kind of reliability before I make a TAS with the credits glitch in MLSS.
I want to do more testing before I start on a TAS. I don't want it to be "hit or miss". When I worked on an Earthbound TAS with pirohiko in 2010ish, I wasn't sure how reliable the tent glitch would be but I did know it could be reproduced if I tried long enough. I want that kind of reliability before I make a TAS with the credits glitch in MLSS.
Have you tried the glitch for different regional versions to see if any of them has a higher chance of getting the credits?
English version seems to have differences with the results. The results are more visible (more graphical glitches) and I have had the selling screen and other things appear that happened on the Jp version.
But in the Jp version, I had the Credits glitch appear only once after a long time of testing. I can try around with the english version in the future some more, but the chance of getting a glitch result to begin with is already slim. And I got the credits only once after 6 hours of testing..
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About the chance of getting the glitch to work:
I found that the chance of getting a glitch result (map screen, minigame, etc.) can be none or it can be somewhat high. But I don't know how to influence it other than going into my inventory and browse through the options there or switching rooms or having different enemies/sprites on the screen.
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I can only do trial and error for the most part. I cannot trace log (I don't think you can do that in VBA anyway), and I don't really know what else to do.
The glitch right now is way too unreliable and I start to feel more like I should go back to the normal routed TAS and let someone else try to do the credits glitch in a TAS.
---
EDIT: I almost forgot:
02000912
02000916
02000924
03007c20 dword
03007c30
03007c70
These addresses seem to have an influence on the glitch effect. But I didn't get different glitch results by changing the values.
My assumption of the glitch is, that it tries to play an event where Peach turns around and she talks to you, but Peach isn't there so the event messes up. The game searches for an event to be played. I thought maybe there could be some kind of address that states what is the event that the game is currently playing but I didn't find such an address yet.
Try tracing back from the end of your vbm to see how early input/events affects the glitch.
I found out the following:
- By doing certain unknown preparations*, you can trigger the glitch result on a certain frame, and it will always happen if you break out of the barrel on that frame.
- If you walked in a certain way before triggering the glitch result you can get a different glitch result by walking differently beforehand. So if you walked >, ^>, >
you can get a different glitch result by walking >, ^>, >, ^> ... >
or >, ^> (not as long), >
- It seems the credits warp from my VBM was a special glitch result that was possible in that particular glitch event loop. You can wait on that particular map screen forever, and still get it after 1~3 B presses (that lead to subsequent map screens and then the credits).
In other words, the possible glitch results can vary in each occurrence. You can get something like
mapscreen, mapscreen, mapscreen, gameover
or you can get a mapscreen where you can never go to the gameover screen subsequently. (This is only an example)
In any way, I'm not getting much smarter with my trial and error, so I hope someone experienced will show up someday and can investigate the glitch and find a reliable way to reproduce it. Until then I'm not going to be looking into the glitch anymore.
------------
* = Opening the inventory, opening your inventory map, opening the cloth selection in your inventory, switching between the brothers, switching clothing,
or in the actual game, pound on the ground or a wall as Mario, jump as Mario.
I don't know which of these actually affect the glitch but I can definitely see the results are affected when I do a variation of the above.
Yesterday I tried to find skips in the English version for console runners (reminder: action command glitch (=barrel glitch) works almost the same on JP and US but you can't barrel clip because US has wall collision check when switching the brothers):
Underwater section skip after Oho Oasis
You can skip going underwater by simply surfing back to the main land. You have to clip through the rock to do it and it doesn't save too much time (maybe 0.5~1 minutes). [no video and explanation, sorry. Just ask me if you want to run English glitched]
Skip having to pay 500 coins for snail game
You have to pay 500 coins entry fee to play the snail game so you can get to one of the starbean pieces. You can use the "huge skip" teleport to clip into the loading zone. Very unreliable. It might be possible to clip past the guy that's blocking the path, so you don't have to do the snail game in the first place.
Bowser's Castle skip
Works the same as in Japanese.
Today I tested the Peach speech glitch on real console.
Japanese: Very often: a freeze and then the battle leading to a yellow screen. Not sure if there is a strong difference between emulator and console.
English: Very often: freezing the game without anything else happening. There is a difference between emulator and console. On emulator, I saw very visible and audible glitch effects. But on console, it pretty much always froze the game.
What else I found out:
The minimario->barrel glitch behaves differently between emulator and console on English. On emulator, I would set up the glitch, start the high jump, and press L 18 times (as in Japanese) and I would get "jump on barrel". But on console I always got "nothing". It is possible to get "jump on barrel" on console in English by setting up the glitch, start highjumping, pressing L 11 times, where the screen has to be mildly flickering at the 9th screen and the last screen. Then you stop highjumping and press L two times. Note: I got one case where I got "jump off of barrel" after 1 L press after highjumping was done.
-> Very slight chance of the glitch working differently every time? I.e. the same action command ID might give you something different very rarely? (I dont think so)
-> When doing barrel glitch, the same ID gives different action commands between console and emulator. Therefore, English glitched runs shouldn't be done on emulator. Emulator doesn't emulate the glitches (peach speech, barrel glitch) correctly on English.
Do you know if there are emulator/console differences for japanese glitched too?
Is there an emulator with more accuracy than VBA to do better testing? Mednafen?
Do you know if there are emulator/console differences for japanese glitched too?
When doing the action command/barrel glitch, there are differences with the screen flickering. So, as an example, when you're at a particular action command ID, the console may flicker a bit and the emulator only flickers once (2 lag frames) and then never again. Those are slight differences because flickering doesn't change anything.
The differences between English console and English emulator are strong though. Because the same action command ID gives a different icon. ID 31 for Mario when behind Luigi, gives "nothing" on console and "barrel" on emu.
Is there an emulator with more accuracy than VBA to do better testing? Mednafen?
I don't know. I only have experience with VBA.
VBA19~21 has huge emulation glitches with the game, flickering when too many sprites are on screen, Peach escorting is emulated wrong in that Peach is never allowed offscreen (but she can be offscreen on console).
VBA24m emulates this game (and many other games that had emulation glitch previously) correctly. Except for the differences that I pointed out.
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
Hey all, I'm Theguesst. I've been working with altabiscuit for the last week or so on some lighter superstar saga glitches. I've found glitches and done routing for my first speedrunning game, strider 2014, and have decided to do so for this game as well. I'm trying to find ways to make the us version faster than it currently is. I read up on the knowlegebase, alta's streams and mugg's videos. I've found a few quirks here and there and put them on my youtube. However, I was messing around with barrel glitch in chuckehuck woods yesterday and found a way to get action command glitch with luigi in front and back, and mario in front (but not in back yet which is what would lead to hat glitch early and such). I am going to provide instructions here; maybe one of you guys can find a way to get glitchy movement or back row mario ACG. I sure hope they make sense without a video yet. All the work has been done on emulator so real hardware testing will be necessary.
spin jump on front luigi: barrel store with hammers, jump off, press r 2 times(hammer icon) pound and emerge, press r twice
High jump on front luigi:barrel store again, jump off, press r 3 times, pound and emerge, press r twice
speech bubble on front luigi:barrel store again, press r twice, jump of and press r once. At surfboard jump, pound and emerge, press r once for speech bubble, barrel store again, jump off and you should now have ACG
Glitch for barrel explosion storage: from start of ACG 7 r button presses, get on, press 4 r, get off, pound and emerge
Luigi spin jump. Part of barrel explosion. After the explosion, your icon is blank. go to the sign and switch in front to get another action command glitch, this one is silent. 4 presses of l = spin jump. (you can also have high jump and barrel storage with this method, will crash if facing non diagonal) Pound and emerge or mario spin jump to give luigi spin jump. Jump on and press R to give mario ACG in front.
PS: I hope this wasn't already known and does nothing :(
PPS: is there a skype community or something I can join in?
There isn't a skype community to my knowledge.
The only thing I was able to get in the forest was Luigi's hand (don't remember if Luigi was in back or front). So if you were able to get more than that, I'm really interested. I'm going to look at your instructions later today.
Just looking at your very first instruction what does " barrel store with hammers" mean?
