We needed a fastest unwinnable stuck trapped situation where i can still move around but cannot progress in the game with my or anyone else's current knowledge of glitches though i have to admit i cannot specifically prove that this is an unwinnable situation which p TAS for AFD so here's one that traps Juste in an inescapable Clock Tower. DISCLAIMER: This is a Castlevania game and thus there's probably a way to unwinnable stuck trapped situation where i can still move around but cannot progress in the game with my or anyone else's current knowledge of glitches though i have to admit i cannot specifically prove that this is an unwinnable situation which p everything before the game starts, but what kind of loser puts effort into an AFD submission? *shuts down VirtualBox and Adobe Premiere, cries softly*
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2794
Location: Northern California
Dwedit wrote:
You take control after replaying the TAS file yourself. If you can't control the game, then it's obviously a softlock.
I'm using softlock here as a situation you can't continue from, not making the game completely uncontrollable.
In this case, there's no way to escape the Clock Tower once you enter it this way. You can't reach any of the ledges without the double jump, and you can't even explore the bottom room because not only is the camera locked, but you can't actually progress down there without the slide. There's no way to zip out of there with a whip launch, either.
I'm uploading a quick, cheap video to show these off in a bit more detail.
EDIT: Here it is.
Link to video
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
I suppose "fastest stuck state" might be more accurate? I don't think "softlock" is well-defined enough to necessarily be wrong here, however.
Anyway, Samsara, I wasn't doubting that no one currently knows how to progress from this state. But the problem with something like this as opposed to a more traditional softlock is that the possibility space is very big - how do you know there aren't undiscovered glitches that can recover from this state and beat the game? Without drastically reducing the possibility space, for instance by causing all input to be ignored, it seems very difficult to verify a run like this.
A warb degombs the brangy. Your gitch zanks and leils the warb.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2794
Location: Northern California
Personman wrote:
Anyway, Samsara, I wasn't doubting that no one currently knows how to progress from this state. But the problem with something like this as opposed to a more traditional softlock is that the possibility space is very big - how do you know there aren't undiscovered glitches that can recover from this state and beat the game? Without drastically reducing the possibility space, for instance by causing all input to be ignored, it seems very difficult to verify a run like this.
You're right, I guess you just completely invalidated my joke April Fools Day submission. Oh, the agony.
In all seriousness, why would any of that invalidate the run if it weren't a joke...? We could never prove that 14% was the lowest you could get in Super Metroid low%, and now 13% was proven, and even still we can't completely prove that's the lowest possible. Sure, I can't fully, 100% prove that this is a softlock. However, with current knowledge, I can't prove that it isn't a softlock either.
We can't run the site on theoreticals. In terms of fulfilling a non-standard goal, we have to accept the current knowledge, otherwise we would never be able to publish anything that isn't any% or 100% due to there potentially being undiscovered glitches or tricks that fulfill the goal more clearly.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
I always understood "softlock" as meaning "the game is technically still going, but you cannot provide any meaningful input ever again (until you reset)". (As opposed to a "hard lock", where the game just Stops.)
The scenario discussed here was always called "unwinnable" or "trapped" or "stuck" or some such.
It's only in the past few days that I've ever seen "softlock" used this way. From multiple different sources at once, actually, which is odd.
I'm just a spectator. There was a time when I tried to participate, but I'm really lazy, so.
she/her/hers
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2794
Location: Northern California
Okay, how's this for a branch name?
EDIT: "which probably invalidates the run but the fact of the matter is this is not a softlock so please don't call it a softlock anymore okay bye i love you"
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
I always understood "softlock" as meaning "the game is technically still going, but you cannot provide any meaningful input ever again (until you reset)". (As opposed to a "hard lock", where the game just Stops.)
The scenario discussed here was always called "unwinnable" or "trapped" or "stuck" or some such.
It's only in the past few days that I've ever seen "softlock" used this way. From multiple different sources at once, actually, which is odd.
I also used to think that the meaning of "softlock" was "state in which the game is still responding to some things, but it's clearly impossible to do anything productive or make any progress", typically because the non-pause controls don't respond or because the character was trapped in the wall.
Increasingly, I'm seeing it used for any unwinnable state, no matter how much control is available. I don't think I've seen any other meaning used for months, and this discussion has reminded me of the old one. Not sure when the meaning changed.
I like the branch name, it told me exactly what to expect right away (as I was clicking on this submission).
Interesting idea for an AFD run, and this was a good game to test it on. I think your BH/VBox/Premiere effort paid off. :)
