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Posted: 10/11/2017 11:02 PM
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Noxxa
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The silliest thing in my opinion is that the one thing that's accepted as a bonus incentive is essentially just one half of what has already been done at HRDQ. I would not bother showing up if that's all you're going to do.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 10/12/2017 5:57 AM
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Warp
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How does it make any sense to have a TAS "block" with one single run? I agree with the sentiment of canceling the whole TAS block. If they are going to reject everything, except one "bonus" run, might just as well not go at all. It would be just a huge waste of time and especially money to go to the event for one single TAS demonstration. Just skip it.
Posted: 10/12/2017 9:07 AM
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andypanther
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I also find it interesting that the one category that got accepted as a bonus, can not even be presented on console.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Posted: 10/12/2017 6:48 PM
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dwangoAC
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Sorry for the delay, the fires near my home have been a huge distraction. My own home is safe, but my manager's home burned to the ground as did the home of my daughter's friend. It's still scary here and I'll be spotty for a bit longer. I want to address the entitlement mentality here really quick. A lot of staples were not accepted this year - no Super Mario Maker, not even Super Metroid. There's plenty of salt to go around, but after talking to the GDQ submission committee it's clear that they really wanted us to have the opportunity to show content that is representative of what can be found on TASVideos and they felt Super Monkey Ball was a better choice. Kaizo nearly made it in but they opted to go with Super Dram World 2 instead. To that end, I'm working with the team in #tasbot to try to do a donation incentive TAS for Super Dram World 2 and anyone here is welcome to help out with that. That's all the time I have to respond, but I did want everyone to know that I will be attending in person. More later!
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Posted: 10/13/2017 12:23 AM
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Habreno
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Stay safe.
Posted: 10/13/2017 3:02 AM
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c-square
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dwangoAC, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds terrifying, and I can't imagine the grief and stress people in your area are battling. Take care and keep safe. On topic, if Super Metroid didn't make it, then I feel a little better about the TAS decision. Save/Kill the animals has been an even bigger staple of GDQs in the past, so I'm very surprised they took it out. I guess they're shaking things up a bit this year. Best of luck on the Super Dram World 2. Let us know if it becomes an incentive so we can all support it!
Posted: 10/13/2017 8:51 AM
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Warp
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dwangoAC wrote:
A lot of staples were not accepted this year - no Super Mario Maker, not even Super Metroid.
My concern is not about what has been accepted, but how many. If only one single run is accepted, I don't think it makes sense to bother (unless you, or somebody else, really wants to do it regardless). But is this a final judgment or just some kind of preliminary one? Will they accept further submissions?
Posted: 10/13/2017 9:23 AM
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KennyMan666
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Warp wrote:
But is this a final judgment or just some kind of preliminary one? Will they accept further submissions?
It's final, barring things like unforseen late drop-outs that mean they have to fill the time with something else. Though in that case, they will likely first go for the bonus runs to add there. There's been a lot made about that Super Metroid didn't get accepted, but actually looking at the submissions, it's pretty clear to me that there's no Super Metroid because there simply weren't any solid Super Metroid submissions. It's so far the only game that's been in literally every GDQ event, but that doesn't give it a free pass, and neither does the save/kill donations. Notably, none of the top any% runners of the game actually submitted it.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Posted: 10/13/2017 3:50 PM
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Warp
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KennyMan666 wrote:
It's final, barring things like unforseen late drop-outs that mean they have to fill the time with something else.
I don't want to say that it's a bit insulting for them to reject all the TAS submissions, but I'm really tempted to. I would certainly not blame anybody if they wanted to skip the TAS block altogether this time too.
Posted: 10/14/2017 2:17 PM
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Memory
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People are taking things way too personally around here and feel way too entitled. So far the only particularly successful TASes at the GDQ's have been the technical demonstrations. If you want TASes to be at GDQs, prove they can be successful cause so far the evidence doesn't suggest they really can. Monkey Ball will be one source of evidence but if you want more TASes at GDQs... Submit them to other marathons and stuff. GDQs look at whether or not something had a successful showing at another event and it really helps. Cause all I'm seeing in this thread is just feelings that TASVideos is entitled to a block because it's TASVideos. Plenty of other people would want those slots. Plenty of people would go to the event when they only have one game that's shorter than monkey ball. The entitlement is just so real.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Posted: 10/14/2017 4:07 PM
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Warp
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Memory wrote:
People are taking things way too personally around here and feel way too entitled.
Given that, as far as I understand (and please correct me if I'm wrong), the organizers do not pay the runners anything, and on the contrary it's the runners who suffer a monetary loss for participating (they have to travel there and live there for several days, which is bloody expensive), I would say that a bit of entitlement is justified. Talented people, with enormous amounts of experience and skill, are offering their contribution to the event for free, at their own expense, yet it's the event organizers who feel entitled to pick&choose which one of these contributions are accepted. Yes, I'm probably taking this way too seriously (especially since I'm not involved myself in any way, nor are personally affected by any of this), but I can't help but feel just a bit annoyed by this. I hope you understand.
Posted: 10/14/2017 4:10 PM
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Masterjun
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Memory wrote:
If you want TASes to be at GDQs, prove they can be successful cause so far the evidence doesn't suggest they really can.
I don't know I thought my Pong Snake SMW run was kind of successful, after all, some of our runs have news coverage on some sites, and some runs are on top of the most seen VoDs on the channel, but maybe that's just me.
Warning: Might glitch to credits I will finish this ACE soon as possible (or will I?)
Posted: 10/14/2017 4:26 PM
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KusogeMan
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the technical achievements are certainly interesting,but i don't think the normal "Perfect Speedrun" amazes everyone,also when it's too glitched some people just call it "cheating", you just can't please everyone
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 10/14/2017 4:39 PM
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Memory
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@Warp whether entitlement is "justified" or not, they'd have to justify it in place of another run. There's only 150 hours in the marathon, no matter how the games were chosen, there needs to be some reason to choose submissions over others and quite frankly I can't blame the organizers for choosing the amount of TAS content they did. I've talked to plenty of people outside of TASVideos about the TAS Blocks at GDQ's and I've heard plenty of people express various complaints about them. Many straight up no longer care about the TAS Blocks, think the ACE stuff has gotten stale, or think that there's no point to showing something in a marathon that could just be watched on youtube at any time. To them, a TAS Block would be a waste of schedule space. That's why I personally cannot blame GDQ staff for the drastic reduction of TAS Block nor can I think anyone can realistically blame them.
Masterjun wrote:
I don't know I thought my Pong Snake SMW run was kind of successful, after all, some of our runs have news coverage on some sites, and some runs are on top of the most seen VoDs on the channel, but maybe that's just me.
So far the only particularly successful TASes at the GDQ's have been the technical demonstrations.
Like pong, pokemon plays twitch chat, etc.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Posted: 10/14/2017 4:53 PM
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Alyosha
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dwangoAC wrote:
but after talking to the GDQ submission committee it's clear that they really wanted us to have the opportunity to show content that is representative of what can be found on TASVideos and they felt Super Monkey Ball was a better choice.
Memory wrote:
So far the only particularly successful TASes at the GDQ's have been the technical demonstrations. If you want TASes to be at GDQs, prove they can be successful cause so far the evidence doesn't suggest they really can.
I definitely agree that 'normal' TASes would be boring for such an event. But if that's what the selection commitee is looking for, then we really don't have anything to offer. I guess the question for me is, what direction should we be pushing in to get something worthy of being accepted? Should we be focusing on newer systems? More creative ideas for tech. demonstrations? Maybe look more at funny stuff? I was introduced to TASing from a GDQ, it's great exposure while also generally benefitting a good cause, hopefully going forward we can get some idea of what we need to be offering to keep going back while at the same time advancing TASing in general.
Posted: 10/14/2017 7:14 PM
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andypanther
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We should just face the reality that GDQ is not a speedrunning event, but a commercial gaming show that uses speedrunning as a gimmick. They can not be considered a part of the speedrun community and when looking at the content presented during the years, you can clearly see why. The schedules are not about giving the speedrun community a chance to show off their coolest runs, it's about showing the content that brings the most money. And don't even try to bring up the charity argument, you know exactly that GDQ is not a non-profit organization! If GDQ doesn't want the TAS community, fine, there's plenty of other marathons to go to!
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Posted: 10/14/2017 8:03 PM
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Dacicus
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Alyosha wrote:
I guess the question for me is, what direction should we be pushing in to get something worthy of being accepted? Should we be focusing on newer systems? More creative ideas for tech. demonstrations? Maybe look more at funny stuff?
What about dwangoAC's earlier idea about a TAS that hasn't been submitted and published yet? That would be new for everyone except those working on it and the TASBot team.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 10/15/2017 5:57 AM
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Warp
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Memory wrote:
I've talked to plenty of people outside of TASVideos about the TAS Blocks at GDQ's and I've heard plenty of people express various complaints about them. Many straight up no longer care about the TAS Blocks, think the ACE stuff has gotten stale, or think that there's no point to showing something in a marathon that could just be watched on youtube at any time. To them, a TAS Block would be a waste of schedule space.
Well, that sounds a lot like only one conclusion can be drawn.
andypanther wrote:
And don't even try to bring up the charity argument, you know exactly that GDQ is not a non-profit organization!
There is indeed a lot of criticism that many people raise against GDQ (especially AGDQ and the PCF), but perhaps this thread is not appropriate to delve into all that.
Posted: 11/1/2017 10:34 PM
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CtrlAltDestroy
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I had an idea for an interesting "magic trick" that could be presented at a TAS block. With Super Mario World, use arbitrary code execution to make the game play itself, similar to the "Ends Input Early" movie from last year. Upload the contents of the TAS to the SNES itself, then unplug TASBot, and the SNES will complete the speedrun on its own with no input. This would be and interesting an unexpected trick that could easily be played up for comedy, e.g., "Super Mario World 11-exit speedrun played by the Super Nintendo Entertainment System" or "played by nobody at all"
Posted: 11/2/2017 12:51 AM
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Amaraticando
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I don't believe there's enough free memory to do it.
Posted: 11/2/2017 12:58 AM
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Spikestuff
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Also the fact that they didn't want the TASVideos' gimmicks for GDQ18.
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Posted: 11/2/2017 12:59 AM
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dwangoAC
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Amaraticando wrote:
I don't believe there's enough free memory to do it.
This isn't a horrible idea, for a game with SRAM there may be, but I think we can think outside the box on what is possible and do a bit more than just auto-play. I have more to say in this thread but I'll do that some other time.
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Posted: 11/2/2017 1:00 AM
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Masterjun
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Just playing Super Mario World, even without any controller attached, would be boring after one or two levels.
Warning: Might glitch to credits I will finish this ACE soon as possible (or will I?)
Posted: 11/2/2017 1:05 PM
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Alyosha
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Agreed with the sentiment that technical gimmicks aren't likely to hold many people's attention anymore. I don't know, the selection committee said they wanted typical TAS stuff, but I'm not sure they really actually do. My personal opinion is something interactive is needed to boost interest. Like, maybe we can do the SMB in SMW ACE, but give TASbot real time control of various aspects of the game, like enemy behaviour, to make it super hard and trolly. Then we can have a race between SMB runners to see if they can beat TASbot-SMB. Well, just an idea for something different.
Posted: 11/3/2017 5:35 AM
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Warp
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I don't really understand. I thought all of the suggested runs were rejected, and there will effectively be no TAS block. Am I missing something, or are we talking about some further future GDQ event?
Alyosha wrote:
I don't know, the selection committee said they wanted typical TAS stuff, but I'm not sure they really actually do.
Given that they rejected all of the proposed regular runs, I have to agree. They think they want "normal" speedruns (just tool-assisted), and that they don't want "gimmicky" runs, but when we submitted regular runs they rejected them all, which sends a rather different message. I don't think they themselves know what they want.
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