Topic by Saturn

Posted: 2/22/2005 6:19 PM

Post subject: Secret of Evermore (was: +undiscovered secret)

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Secret of Evermore was my first RPG game I played, so its a very special game for me. I'm a Secret of Evermore expert and I made a complete and perfect walkthrough of this game on www.zophar.net/zsnes/zmv but I still have something to clear: There is one ingredient called "Dry Ice". This is the only ingredient you can't buy over and over. My biggest goal in this game in the 90's was to find a way to get or buy this ingredient continually (to level up the Call Bead formula) but without luck. There are rumors that a alchemist is hiding in Professor's Lab. Someone submitted this hint: "Once you reach any experience level that is a multiple of 5, go to the professor's lab (in omnitopia.) Go all the way to the left wall and walk straight up without stopping. A cat will appear (just like at the start of the game). The dog will chase the cat and an alchemist will find the dog and bring him back to the lab. He will see you Dry Ice - 12,000 credits for 5." I tried everything out all levels, all variations, all game-versions but without success. This submission must be a fake. BUT: After I have used the walk-through wall code, and walked straight up through the wall in the lab (like in the submission) the characters (Boy and Dog) have dissapeared on one point of the black location just behind the wall. But as I went further they reapeared again. That means something is programed in this small field (maybe really the alchemist who sells Dry Ice and should come out of this place). But as I said nothing happen here. Has anybody anywhere something to say about this still undiscovered secret that makes this game so special? Any hints, suggestions or whatever to make a sure "Yes or No" to the question "is it possible to get dry ice in the game"?

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 2/22/2005 6:51 PM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (123)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

Get someone to reverse-engine it to find out? I don't know ;O

Posted: 3/7/2005 5:36 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Good news: I start making a timeattack on secret of evermore but with 100% items (this is my style, for those who wanna know where to get everything). This will be a very long project so I guess if my Will is strong enough to finnish it I get it t in about 2-3 months. About "Dry Ice", I thought so that nobody will know about this one. Well lets see how many years this secret will still be undiscovered. This game just has the most secrets of all games on snes, I played so many of them and nothing is compareable to this one in secrets. I will post my progress of this movie here if I have time. If anybody has some helpfull advices I would be glad.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 3/9/2005 10:28 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Now I have finally realized how hard it will be to make a perfect movie of this game. Oh my god I'm only in Bugmuck for the first time and just defeated Thraxx (the red giant bug) in a total recording time of 10:42 including the long starting intro but worked my 3rd day already. I have realized that the recording goes very often out of sync in most cases if there are many enemies on the screen and if you have to attack them. I always have to stop recording and playback the movie to be sure it is in sync after every new screen and this costs a lot of time and nerves. At the beginning it's OK but the longer I record, the more time it will cost to playback it so has anybody a suggestion which sync setting is the best for this game? I use the original US version 60frames/sec.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 3/10/2005 1:06 AM

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Halamantariel

Player (104)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 562
Location: Québec, Canada

It all depends on what emulator you use ... I suggest you use the latest release of Snes9x (if that's not already the case) which is located at http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25682#25682 I suggest you use the option "Use WIP1 timing". In every case, I would love to see the current WIP of you run. Could you post the link so we could all watch your progress?

Posted: 3/10/2005 2:39 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

Make a savestate before the part you want to play back. When you start your movie, with READ-ONLY checked, just load the savestate and the playback will start from there. You won't have to watch the whole movie every time. The turbo button (usually Tab) is also very handy, but I think you know about that already.

Posted: 3/10/2005 12:08 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Thank you very much guys, I used version 3 of snes9x improved but now I updated to version 5. I use WIP1 timing but would like to know what other settings are good for that like should I turn Fake Mute desync workaround on or sync samples with sound CPU. Currently I enabled this 3 options I mentioned while recording. To Truncated: A very special thanks to you since I didn't even know that I can playback a movie right from the savestate and not have to do it from beginning on, on this way my biggest problem is cleared now, even if it still gets desync I can control and rerecord it even in late parts of the game easyly now. About "Turbo" I knew before, otherwise I would be lost... Allright here is my first WIP: www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9xmovies.htm

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 3/10/2005 10:14 PM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

Here are the best settings for preventing desyncs: WIP1 timing: ON Volume Height Envelope Reading: OFF Fake Mute desync workaround: ON Sync samples with sound CPU: ON Also, use the latest version, which is now v6. If you try playing back your current movie with these settings and that makes it desync, that means having the wrong settings before made your movie itself go out of sync, and you'll have to start over with the better settings set, or hex edit corrections into the movie. Note that not all of these settings may be necessary, for instance in this particular game I doubt that the fake mute workaround makes a difference, but it's a good idea to try changing them one at a time with an existing movie to see which ones change anything.

Posted: 3/10/2005 10:54 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Thanks nitsuja, I recorded on exactly the settings you recommend (without left/right, up/down) and finaly realized why it still gets out of sync: Everytime I enter a new screen the enemies are on different places (no matter what settings) so I have to stop recording right after entering a new screen and playback the movie to up to this screen to make another savestate and rerecord from this state then. But it's no problem now since "truncated" saved my day with his hint. The game seems to be that random that even the best snes9x can't prevent desyncs after a new screen in enemie places (ZSNES was able to do that but his movie files are about 10 times bigger than snes9x' ones). But I will do it slowly screen by screen since I got even stronger motivated now because from now on it will be harder and harder and I have to think of the perfectest and fastest way to go through the game without leveling up AT ALL (if I can handle it).

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 3/11/2005 4:24 PM
(Edited: 3/11/2005 7:32 PM)

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Mlandry

Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 325

*edit* I got it to work.. damn IE was blocking freewebs

Posted: 3/11/2005 5:39 PM

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Fabianx

Joined: 12/17/2004
Posts: 99
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Saturn wrote:

Thanks nitsuja, I recorded on exactly the settings you recommend (without left/right, up/down) and finaly realized why it still gets out of sync: Everytime I enter a new screen the enemies are on different places (no matter what settings)

This reminds me strongly of the Zelda bug. It might be that there are other variables as well, which are used by this game, which are not stored in the savestates, yet. nintsuja: What do you think? cu Fabian PS: I plan to port some of your things to unix this weekend, so I can also watch this Evermore movie ;-).

Posted: 3/11/2005 10:39 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

I also think it's a enemie-variable that is not stored exactly in the savestates. But I can control and correct it much faster now than before anyway. I updated the movie to WIP2 now at the top of the volcano! www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9xmovies.htm

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 3/11/2005 10:43 PM

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Halamantariel

Player (104)

Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 562
Location: Québec, Canada

Keep up the good work Saturn! I'm watching your progress at each update you post! Can't wait for the final and complete result!

Posted: 3/12/2005 2:27 AM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (123)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

Wow, great job Saturn, probably deserve a star when it is done.

Posted: 3/12/2005 3:12 PM

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Mlandry

Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 325

This is pretty good, but it seems your making the real deal has first run? Usually people make a test run before they make the one they publish but i guess u did speed run the game before. Just remember to pick up the exact number of things u need ( or try to anyways ). I don't know exactly what you'll need but if you can save time buying 20 clays at once instead of picking them up you should try to do that, you'll save a few minutes in your end game time that way i think, if you dont run out of cash =)

Posted: 3/12/2005 8:14 PM

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Tilus

Former player

Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177

Nicely done movie so far.. I like the coordination between the boy and the dog to pick up items and advance quickly at the same time, and the massive spamming of alchemy formulas on the bosses (I didn't know you could fire them off THAT quickly). Though I have to wonder about a couple things.. First, were picking up a couple of those alchemy formulas (such as the one hidden in the clearing west of Fire Eyes' village), where you don't immediately go and buy ingredients from the supplier afterward, really that necessary? Just seemed like a waste of time to me. Second, once you run out on your run gauge, why do you walk while waiting for the gauge to recharge instead of just rapidly tapping the run button, especially at times when you run out a short distance from the door? I always figured that to be faster than just waiting to recharge every time, but I may be wrong..

Posted: 3/12/2005 10:46 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

I see you guys realize the problems of this game very good to Milandry: I completed the game so many times from start to end that I can't count that anymore. Yes its my first run on snes9x but if I know a game really good than it is Secret of Evermore. Of course I know that I have to pick up a exact number of items I need, of course I know that if I can buy 20 Clays at once it's faster, but there are 2 reasons why I pick them up anyway. 1st one is the cash. If I don't fight enemies at all I have only cash I find or get from the bosses and it is that less that I have to buy the absolute minimum of ingredients and only the ones I need (Clay and Crystal for Hard Ball). The 2nd reason is because I wanna show people the optimal way to get a ingredient u need, best example is the Mammoth grave (where I fight the Vipers). I got 16 clays there mostly 3 till 4 clays at once but it works only if you pick up a another special ingredient before (in this case the roots during Heat Wave) so this is a small secret too. But mainly its becuase of the very limited cash I need to get things that I can't buy in later parts (like the 3 weakest armors). To Tilus: 1st, Im not sure what exactly you mean but I answer to 2 situations: at the very beginning right after talking with fire eyes first time and naming the dog I went to the ingredient seller (he has the most expensive prices in prehistoria on ingredients) to pick up 3 clays. You can't buy clay before you defeat Thraxx - giant bug, so I had to find them as much as I need to have enough hard balls to defeat him, all 18 were needed so it was perfect. Then after Thraxx I took many items from boxes like the very expensive nectar to sell it later and get the needed cash for ingredients and then (guess you mean this) I bought 6 essences for 15 each to sell it for 75 later on this way I win 60 talons for 1 = 360 in total, this is the best way to get many cash fast since the enemies don't give that many in prehistoria. 2nd, about running, thats wrong that rapidly tapping run is faster. Everytime you change from run to walk it costs about 1 frame delay. I myself have realized that if I try to tapp the run button as seldom as possible it will be faster if you do it correctly. I have calculated in which frame it was optimal to press the run button after walking so that I mostly run to the end of a screen and leave it with 0% left. The more often you press the run button the more frames you get delay in the result. Now I have a BIG problem: I have reached the Swamp-Boss (Salabog) and now it is extremely close depending on my amount of hard balls and call beads, I have to manipulate luck to make each bomb doing as much damage as possible because on normal way it will not suffice to kill the boss. Of his 2000 HP I do with my current amount (bombs and call beads) 1800 max on normal way in total so I have to think how can I optimize it to the last 200. If its impossible I have to go back to the village and buy more Crystals for more hardballs. I will try everything to prevent this, so lets see what I can do.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 3/13/2005 12:00 AM

Post subject: Nice movie and interesting bug

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Fabianx

Joined: 12/17/2004
Posts: 99
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Hi, this is the first game, which needs some time to warm up before you can play a movie, which I found on linux. So perhaps I can now spot the bug, but I'm more into watching at the moment. Perhaps later ... cu Fabian

Posted: 3/13/2005 1:25 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

Does 100% in this game include getting every alchemy formula? I'm not sure how much stuff that seems unnecessary is being done in order to satisfy this 100% completion. Fabianx, the synchronization problems do remind me of the Zelda desync, but it could be unrelated also. Good luck with finding its cause, as you did successfully with Zelda 3. (By the way, I thought Secret of Evermore was programmed similarly to Secret of Mana, so I find it a little strange that this has sync problems where SoM doesn't.)

Posted: 3/13/2005 1:46 AM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

nitsuja wrote:

Does 100% in this game include getting every alchemy formula? I'm not sure how much stuff that seems unnecessary is being done in order to satisfy this 100% completion.

definitely. The Alchemy Formulas are one of the most important things you can get in the game. I have good chances now to beat Salabog. I damaged him to 1063 HP so far and have 9 Hard balls left which are on level 3 now (stronger) and 6 callbeads, with optimum use I can reach 400HP with Balls and 600HP with call beads so it should be enough to beat him with the last item I have. If possible I will include even a dog-bite after the balls for about 20HP more damage. Im confident now. PS: during the fight I even have to playback the movie after everytime the boss comes out of the swamp since sometimes he comes out on another place.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 3/13/2005 5:02 AM

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Viewer

Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284

Very interesting idea here, but when I try to download it from your site I get a "security alert" saying I'm not allowed to download it; using GetRight to attempt it yields nothing as well. Is there another location I can find this?

Posted: 3/13/2005 5:36 AM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (123)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

Viewer wrote:

but when I try to download it from your site I get a "security alert" saying I'm not allowed to download it

Ewww I remember getting this ALL THE TIME with "Service Package 2" on Win XP from microsoft.. i hated it, and rolled back to Service Package 1, were Microsoft on crack?

Posted: 3/13/2005 8:04 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

Viewer wrote:

Very interesting idea here, but when I try to download it from your site I get a "security alert" saying I'm not allowed to download it; using GetRight to attempt it yields nothing as well. Is there another location I can find this?

There's nothing wrong with the site (at least it works for me), so it's probably just your settings. If you mean a bar appears at the top of the window saying the download was blocked, you can click there and tell it to really download. If it's a security zone thing and it doesn't give that option, you can go to internet options -> security and either take the site out of restricted sites or customize the restricted settings to enable downloads.

Posted: 3/13/2005 8:44 AM

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Viewer

Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284

It's alright now; it had something to do with a spyware blocker I had. Thanks for the advice, though.

Posted: 3/13/2005 6:59 PM

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Saturn

Player (209)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Defeated Salabog! The last attack was a 13-hit combo (8 Hard Balls + 5 Storms) which made a 945 HP damage at once so it was enough to beat him (1063+945 = 2008HP) I even have 1 call bead left. Now I have to think how many crystals I have to buy for the upcoming last fight in prehistoria against Magmar. The biggest problem is the money now, since I need some of it in Nobilia to buy everything that is possible since I have to wait 15 minutes till the big meeting anyway, so I can save time if I get all items in this waiting time. The problem is if I exchange Talons in Jewels I get only the 1/2 of them and I need at least 1100 (2200 talons) so maybe I even have to sell my Dino Skin for 225. I will analyze the situation carefully now so that I have enough money to the right times.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun