Sonic 3 & Knuckles "Knuckles" by Evil_3d, WST and Marzojr

Tired of always doing ring-attacks and 100% runs, Knuckles has finally decided it is his turn to break the game in an any% TAS. This run uses a disassembly of the game in order to use the most of every trick.
  • Knuckles is drinking some red-bulls before starts...

Emulator and tools Used

  • Gens Re-Recording 11b + Camera hack + Solidity and Terrain dysplay
  • Sonic TAS tools + Frame Advance

Game objectives

  • Aims for fastest in-game time
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Abuses death
  • Manipulates luck

History of this TAS project by WST

This project was started many years ago, probably by Qwerty, also known by NaturelLorenzo, but I am not completely sure, because he often referenced to Sonikkustar when I talked to him (at least Sonikkustar really had a Knuckles 100% project). And the first public WIP of this project (this particular gmv file) was probably this. Qwerty did it up to Ice Cap zone, but at that point he already had a strong feeling of imperfection and thus decided to start his work from scratch, instead of proceeding to Ice Cap zone or taking marzojr’s ICZ example. First, he did a testrun of Sandopolis 2, probably the hardest of all stages. Then he redid the beginning of the game up to Carnival Night zone, but then again came the feeling of imperfection, and he decided to leave his work to me (WST). I accepted his challenge, and my first goal was improving Angel Island 1 by 1 in-game second, though Qwerty told me he considered AIZ to be already well done. At first I almost succeeded. Almost. Then I got a message from Aglar with his own “testrun” of AIZ1 as Knuckles, which was slightly faster than my “serious” project, so I returned to work.
Meanwhile, there were 2 almost-joke submissions of Sonic & Knuckles:
— Sonic and Knuckles (Knuckles, any%) by Qwerty
— Sonic and Knuckles (Knuckles, any%) by WST, feeuzz, Qwerty
They were made very quickly: the goal of the first run was just getting a first TASvideos publication, the goal of the second one was simply showing how bad was the first run — it took me and feeuzz just 3-4 days to completely redo the run, improving every single stage.
Then there was a “serious” submission from McBobX. Surprisingly, the first half of that run was poorly done, and the second one was a result of copy-pasting mine and feeuzz’s work without even mentioning us in the submission text.
Of course, I did not abandon the Sonic 3 and Knuckles any% project. I found ways to improve Aglar’s example run, and finally got 0:40 in Angel Island 1. Redoing Angel Island 1 was hard because of the tunnel trick, which I really hate, but I have to thank marzojr, who performed it for me many times — and did it again.
The further work does not need much explaination. Qwerty left the project and I worked on it alone. I played all zones up to Carnival Night 2, but stucked on Carnival Night 1 boss — as always, feeling of imperfection did not let me continue. Also, I often found improvements to already finished stages — for example, glide-glitching from AIZ1 to AIZ2; new zips in HCZ1 and HCZ2. Redoing it all again and again, I got bored and almost abandoned the project (almost — because, well, I recorded FBZ2, for example). The other “issue” was my promotion at work — I became head of department, and since that moment I had incredibly great amounts of work and responsibility. Beleive me. I cannot be as active as before anymore — and it is not my fault.
Fortunately, an active newcomer, Evil_3D, decided to continue the project. I intentionally didn’t tell you any technical details and told the story behind our project instead — because… Well, because Evil_3D actually replayed and improved most of my input, and he’s the one who knows the technical details, and I am the one who knows the entire project’s life

Timetable Sonic 3 part

Level/ACTTime
Angel Island 10:40.41
Angel Island 20:23.13
Hydrocity 10:31.39
Hydrocity 20:45.36
Marble Garden 10:40.24
Marble Garden 20:03.24
Carnival Night 10:30.28
Carnival Night 20:27.37
Ice Cap0:39.09
Launch Base 10:35.36
Launch Base 21:29.00

Time table Sonic & Knuckles part

Level/ACTS3&K New TimeS&K TAS Old Time
Mushroom Hill 10:35.390:47.24
Mushroom Hill 20:46.570:48.09
Flying Battery 10:37.550:37.55
Flying Battery 21:09.131:09.22
Sandopolis 11:10.011:10.07
Sandopolis 21:03.191:16.27
Lava Reef 10:43.180:43.44
Lava Reef 20:21.000:21.39
Hidden Palace0:08.030:08.04
Sky Sanctuary0:57.060:57.07

Suggested screenshots

  • 8139, 19318, 28503, 29287, 38357, 40808, 54354, 66371.

Comments by Evil_3D

Angel Island

WST and Marzojr TASed this zone and they did a great job here, Using the classic glitches for AIZ ( loop zip, tunnel jump, etc.), I don't really see improvement in this zone, so I decided to start from Hydrocity 1.

Hydrocity ACT 1

No level warp for Knuckles here, so taking the upper path is the most optimal route for him, boss battle is more optimized compared to previous WIPs.

Hydrocity ACT 2

Used death to enable level warp and resetting In-game time, better level warp thanks to camera manipulation.

Marble Garden

Tee-N-Tee found the level warp for Sonic in this level, I managed to adapt it for Knuckles, because his jumping force is weaker than Sonic and using the same positioning is not possible.

Carnival Night ACT 1

Nothing changed in the route compared to WIPs, Used a better 1 player strategy with the boss and enter in the ground for a faster ACT 2 start.

Carnival Night ACT 2

DMTM found a new route for this level, WST improved his time, and me WST time.

Ice Cap

DMTM found the zone skip route, WST and Marzojr TASed the zone and I improve their times.

Launch Base ACT 1

Is more faster for Knuckles glide through the spikes to do the level warp instead of waiting the crushing spike, is more efficient because you skip the door that block the boss zone.
Level warp: Camera has been manipulated with some spindashes in certain positions to get the camera away from the player and go to the boss area more faster, saving more frames.

Launch Base ACT 2

This ACT was the hardest for me in the Sonic 3 part, I redoed this act 7 times because I always found improvements to make, but I'm sure the act is already very well optimized.
I do a few small pauses before the flamethrower appears on the screen so it does not fire and does not damage me.

From here the levels are compared with the S&K TAS now.

Mushroom Hill ACT 1

I used butterbot in the beginning to climb to Sonic's start and do the door trick for enter in the ground and do the level warp.
I do not know if this trick was discovered before, but I discovered it by myself.

Mushroom Hill ACT 2

Used S&K route and improved it.

Flying Battery ACT 1

No time saved here :(

Flying Battery ACT 2

Saved some frames with a better camera manipulation in the level warp process.

Sandopolis ACT 1

Saved 5 frames with a better level warp thanks to a better positioning in the loop and saved 1 frame in the boss.
Manipulates signpost time for a better objects sync and don't lost In-game time in the next ACT

Sandopolis ACT 2

This act should be called "Sandopolis ACT 666" (joke), because it was a hell TASing this act, I redo it 12 times in total, there were always improvements to make and mobile objects never cooperated, dear god. I can say that I spent about 20,000 rerecords and 3 weeks of my life (not counting attempts in my 100% TAS) doing this ACT, but in the end I'm happy it's very well done, saving 13 seconds compared to the S&K TAS.

Lava Reef ACT 1

Saved 1 frame in level warp and better boss battle.

Lava Reef ACT 2

Better level warp and camera manipulation.

Hidden Palace / Sky Sanctuary

Saved 1 frame in Hidden Palace and Sky Santuary Using my 100% TAS input.

Special thanks

  • Feeuzz, qwerty and WST: for the Sonic & Knuckles TAS
  • DMTM & S3Kglitches: for his discoveries
  • Marzojr and Aglar: for the Sonic and Tails TAS
  • Theyogwog: for his amazing ring-attack
  • My YT followers for keep me motivated

feos: Judging...
Fog: Processing.


TASVideoAgent
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Post subject: Re: #5486: Evil_3D, WST & Marzojr's Genesis Sonic 3 & Knuckles "Knuckles" in 22:07.68
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Great and a big YES vote from me, but just to note something about my old cancelled run, I said thanks to everyone who makes a TAS for Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and with that I mean thanks to guys who are authors of current TASes since I used them as reference to inspire glitches from (copied inputs too), and I didn't try to not to mention something about that. This is just a misunderstanding problem only I think, and I'm sorry if I didn't name authors in the submission. Anyway, that was 3 years ago, we should leave that behind. This is a strong run and enjoyable to watch, also strikes my old bad run by 2m31s. YES vote again.
I still learn more about English. https://www.youtube.com/user/McBobX100
I wrote:
Working is the best way to achieve goals in speedruning. Hardworking is a pain.
Active player (326)
Joined: 2/23/2005
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Knuckles "Knuckles" & Knuckles. Voting Knuckles. Very fun glitches and graphics corruptions the entire way.
Editor, Experienced player (579)
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McBobX wrote:
Great and a big YES vote from me, but just to note something about my old cancelled run, I said thanks to everyone who makes a TAS for Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and with that I mean thanks to guys who are authors of current TASes since I used them as reference to inspire glitches from (copied inputs too), and I didn't try to not to mention something about that. This is just a misunderstanding problem only I think, and I'm sorry if I didn't name authors in the submission. Anyway, that was 3 years ago, we should leave that behind. This is a strong run and enjoyable to watch, also strikes my old bad run by 2m31s. YES vote again.
Maybe a WST's misunderstanding, I am oblivious to that subject, but thanks for the vote :)
You can see more TASes on my youtube channel
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CtrlAltDestroy wrote:
Knuckles "Knuckles" & Knuckles. Voting Knuckles. Very fun glitches and graphics corruptions the entire way.
And Knuckles!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
WST
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I didn’t mean to blame, I apologize if it looked so — actually I wanted to point out to that run, because it’s a significant and important attempt at doing a Knuckles any% TAS of S3K, and of course I had to mention the reasons behind that run’s failure. By the way, it’s funny how in the MGZ Eggman quickly turns into egg robot in the very beginning of the boss battle ^^ Unkillable Tails and Knuckles’ reaction at it (like “what the…”) is also nice :)
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
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Knuckles is a cheating bastard. It was quite entertaining.
Editor, Player (68)
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Thanks for the camhack encode.
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Absolutely insane. Yes.
WST
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In case someone needs the official artwork of this run (high quality + full size + alpha channel), here it is: The author is SiD, she is one of the two artists who make artworks for TAS projects where I participate. I think it’s a nice idea to add some kind of illustration to the submission :)
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
BigBoct
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This SID does really nice work. The TAS was great. Voting Yes.
Previous Name: boct1584
Techokami
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Good gravy! Knuckles just don't care. Yes vote! Also, I hope that Ice Cap ending can be pulled off with Sonic & Tails, that would make for a good-sized improvement to the currently published run...
BigBoct
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From what I can see of that, it looks like the Act 2 boss is being skipped in the same way as the Act 1 boss: the camera is positioned so that the camera passes under the spawn trigger for the Robobotnik fight.
Previous Name: boct1584
PCachu
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I'm guessing that entire tree behind him is filled with Red Bull as well, because there's no way just 3 cans could accomplish that. Voting Chuckles. (j/k, totally voting Knuckles) Link to video
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this an alt route in Sandopolis 2 during my eleventh attempt. Link to video I found it interesting to share it
You can see more TASes on my youtube channel
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I demand this art be used in the publication encodes! I don't see the watermark though. If it's not there, a small note crediting the art author can be put in a logo. Also, since the site is called MEMEVideos after all, this run will be obsoleted when Sonic the Hedgehog 3CD & Knuckles & Knuckles is finally TASed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
WST
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Well, actually, I informed the artist that we were not going to use the art in the video encode. I wouldn’t like to disturb her with this subject again. I suggest the encoder add the image himself if this gets accepted for publication. He/she can write “Art by SiD” to link to the author.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Zakatos
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Hydrocity 2... nah, just boss fight. Marble Garden 1... nah, just Atc 2 boss fight. Carnival Night... nah, just open capsule. Icecap 1... nah.
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Is Knuckles sometime outside the walls?!!! I do not know if I must say it was fun for be fast or boring for almost always not doing much.
Some Zamasu's quotes: - When I was invited to this place, I thought you would teach me about justice. However, does the justice of the gods not only pass by to observe? - Every time I am attacked, I enjoy my immortality.
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Because unlike Sonic he don't chuckle. Link to video
You can see more TASes on my youtube channel
Fog
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http://i.imgur.com/ioKh96v.png Here's the draft for the logo
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Looks cool. But it's SiD, not SID.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
WST
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One more fix: SiD’ or SiD’ni http://sidni.pw/ http://s1dni.deviantart.com/ Thank you guys in advance :)
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2 my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Fog
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feos wrote:
Looks cool. But it's SiD, not SID.
The font doesn't have any lowercase characters, so it appears the same either way. I lied, it does have lower/upper. Should I add the URLs to the logo?