Post by InputEvelution

Posted: 7/15/2024 6:40 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11468
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

Ideally we figure out what's different (CPP suggests settings). Please upload both movies and all the info to run them.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 7/16/2024 1:02 PM
(Edited: 7/16/2024 2:54 PM)

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InputEvelution

She/Her

Editor, Reviewer, Player (36)

Joined: 3/27/2018
Posts: 193
Location: Australia

.bk2 movie: User movie #638561133860455748 .dtm movie (oddly this seems to be 8 frames longer in duration??): User movie #638567315518273591 Instructions are listed in their respective user files descriptions, though it's less readable than I expected (new lines don't seem to get saved). Edit by feos: Fixed links.

Posted: 7/19/2024 11:37 PM
(Edited: 7/26/2024 9:08 PM)

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RetroEdit

Any

Editor, Reviewer, Player (169)

Joined: 8/8/2019
Posts: 152

PiePusher11, Fortranm, and I have been talking about improvements to #9128: PiePusher11's GBC Game & Watch Gallery 3 "50 stars" in 38:20.50 and one potential improvement suggested by Winslinator is adding 2-player to get extra stars from Judge B (the multiplayer mode of Judge). I've made a proof-of-concept movie that confirmed 2-player can probably reach the credits a little over six minutes faster than a single-player movie can. My question: would a 2-player movie would obsolete a theoretical single player movie? After reading the relevant rules and looking at existing movies, I'm under the impression that both could be published side-by-side, but I wanted to double-check since multiplayer in this case is a two Game Boys with link cable and there's only a few movies like that. (There are some game details if relevant: a 2-player movie essentially requires the second player solely for the purposes of playing a single game of Judge B. Both players have to collect 20 stars to unlock Judge to play it in multiplayer. The primary player would collect more stars after that for overall efficiency before entering Judge B, while the secondary player needs no further stars. In fact, the second player could literally copy the inputs of the first player basically all the way until Judge B. Then at Judge B, the primary player will win, while the secondary player will intentionally lose to accelerate the primary player. The primary player will go on to finish the game, while the secondary player no longer has anything left to do. From a presentation perspective, it's unfortunate the secondary player's gameplay is largely irrelevant.) See also: related follow-up post.

Posted: 7/30/2024 6:38 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11468
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

InputEvelution wrote:

.bk2 movie: User movie #638561133860455748 .dtm movie (oddly this seems to be 8 frames longer in duration??): User movie #638567315518273591

What are the hashes of the game image? I have

Wii Party (Korea).rvz
CRC32: CCA9ED9D
MD5: F8FE5B2CD1C6C97B1FB43A352BF3CE82
SHA-1: 965F1E3DE4594528F6061825BDDEFF9D901D3CE9

and I'm getting black screen in hawk.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 7/30/2024 6:42 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11468
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

RetroEdit wrote:

PiePusher11, Fortranm, and I have been talking about improvements to #9128: PiePusher11's GBC Game & Watch Gallery 3 "50 stars" in 38:20.50 and one potential improvement suggested by Winslinator is adding 2-player to get extra stars from Judge B (the multiplayer mode of Judge). I've made a proof-of-concept movie that confirmed 2-player can probably reach the credits a little over six minutes faster than a single-player movie can. My question: would a 2-player movie would obsolete a theoretical single player movie? After reading the relevant rules and looking at existing movies, I'm under the impression that both could be published side-by-side, but I wanted to double-check since multiplayer in this case is a two Game Boys with link cable and there's only a few movies like that.

For co-op multiplayer we allow them to co-exist, but for PVP we don't have an agreement yet, tho I'd need to see the video to understand.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 7/30/2024 11:46 PM

Post subject: Game & Watch Gallery 3 follow-up

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RetroEdit

Any

Editor, Reviewer, Player (169)

Joined: 8/8/2019
Posts: 152

I want to mention a few things:

Do the rules actually specify co-op? I know the recent "triviality of N-player-only games" discussion implies there's some internal judging discussion about this, so maybe it's implied or assumed.
There's already an existing GB publication that is very explicitly PvP: [5642] GB 4-in-1 Fun Pak: Chess "2 Gameboys" by BlackWinnerYoshi & Spikestuff in 00:15.02
For GAWG3, 150 stars is probably considered full completion and would require both players anyway. So it becomes a case where some PvP is part of the intentional progression.

For context, the Game & Watch Gallery series has games where the main progression mechanism is stars. You can collect up to five stars in each mode (Classic or Modern)/difficulty (Game A or Game B) combination of each main subgame, generally by reaching 1000 points (200 points per star). When you collect 50 stars in GAWG3, you reach the credits, so that's the standard completion. When you collect all 150 stars in GAWG3, you get congratulated. 5 of the stars are locked in the multiplayer mode of the Judge B subgame and those happen to be among the faster stars. To be honest, I don't think a video would impart enough additional clarity to be worth encoding and uploading right now. I'd also prefer not to spoil the new TAS too heavily. Suffice it to say, it would look very similar to the video in #9128: PiePusher11's GBC Game & Watch Gallery 3 "50 stars" in 38:20.50, but both players play through all the games (technically player 2 has more freedom but still has to collect at least 20 stars to unlock Judge). Judge B is similar to Judge A: most of the optimization comes from RNG manipulation so that the transition between rounds is fast (there's a random speed associated with the foot-tapping and countdown) and so the primary player has a higher number in each round: https://youtu.be/upNPzKuIDgo?t=1757 -- in Judge B, you can only get maximum points in each round if your number is larger, which is RNG; Judge B also omits the foot-tapping animation and just has the countdown. As far as 2-player visually goes, Judge B is mirrored between both screens, since for the second player, their opponent would be the one scoring. The rest of the run prior could be identical between both players, though for presentation purposes, we might add some variety. (I can upload a video if you really think it would help, but it might take me some time to get around to it.)

Posted: 7/31/2024 1:26 AM

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InputEvelution

She/Her

Editor, Reviewer, Player (36)

Joined: 3/27/2018
Posts: 193
Location: Australia

What are the hashes of the game image?

My .rvz does not match those hashes. Instead it has a SHA1 of c9bace2b16a947547ac69769e10f024ca10130d3. Something worth noting is that when you check the hash of a .rvz in Dolphin, it gives you the hash of the decompressed dump (as if it were a .iso). Using that I instead get a SHA1 of 630ac23987ad8c38a5bf72550dfdf840a20d4ca8, which is what is listed on redump.org.

I'm getting black screen in hawk.

This is most likely due to not having the SYSCONF language properly configured in Dolphin settings. As I understand it, Wii Party will refuse to start if an incompatible language is being used.

Posted: 8/5/2024 4:08 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11468
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

RetroEdit wrote:

Do the rules actually specify co-op? I know the recent "triviality of N-player-only games" discussion implies there's some internal judging discussion about this, so maybe it's implied or assumed.

The rules don't know about PVP yet. Multiplayer here has always been cooperative.

RetroEdit wrote:

For GAWG3, 150 stars is probably considered full completion and would require both players anyway. So it becomes a case where some PvP is part of the intentional progression.

If it's required for an existing standard goal then it doesn't need special clauses. Overall, we publish minimum amount of players, maximum amount of players, and something else that is the fastest. If your improvement idea requires the second player to always be present, it's labeled "2 players" and co-exists with strictly "1 player". If it only involves the second player in specific places, doesn't need a label. So how does the 2-player mode look in that game? Do the players cooperate, or compete, or take turns?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 8/6/2024 11:10 AM

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Mikewillplays

Editor, Experienced player (678)

Joined: 1/7/2023
Posts: 66
Location: Somewhere on planet earth probably

When submissions aren't claimed for judgement for a long time, are they forgotten?

Posted: 8/6/2024 1:30 PM

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DrD2k9

He/Him

Editor, Judge, Expert player (2210)

Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1085
Location: US

Mikewillplays wrote:

When submissions aren't claimed for judgement for a long time, are they forgotten?

No. It just means that a judge hasn’t gotten to it yet. Not all judges feel able/comfortable judging all systems/goals, so sometimes it takes a while for a judge who is comfortable to claim a particular run.

Posted: 8/6/2024 2:55 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11468
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg

We can't forget submissions, because when looking for that to judge next we use this list https://tasvideos.org/Subs-List?Search.Statuses=0

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 8/12/2024 2:43 AM
(Edited: 8/12/2024 3:08 AM)

Post subject: Game & Watch Gallery 3

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RetroEdit

Any

Editor, Reviewer, Player (169)

Joined: 8/8/2019
Posts: 152

feos wrote:

Overall, we publish minimum amount of players, maximum amount of players, and something else that is the fastest. If your improvement idea requires the second player to always be present, it's labeled "2 players" and co-exists with strictly "1 player". If it only involves the second player in specific places, doesn't need a label. So how does the 2-player mode look in that game? Do the players cooperate, or compete, or take turns?

They compete. Most of the time they're each independently playing individually for each of them to have the 20 stars progression, but they have to both enter Judge B together, where they compete. I've already described this in my last post above, but I suppose a video is worth 1000 words; I've now uploaded a video of my full 2-player proof-of-concept here (timestamped with a link to Judge B): https://youtu.be/nHR3Km8GssQ&t=1712s It copies the original submission until the 2-player route diverges. See my prior posts above (1, 2) for further explanation/context.

Posted: 8/16/2024 6:31 PM
(Edited: 8/16/2024 7:38 PM)

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KusogeMan

Experienced player (674)

Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1773
Location: Brasil

Superman Shadow of Apokolips GAMECUBE has 3 difficulties, in case me or someone else decides to TAS this, can I go for the unlockable Very Hard difficulty? Otherwise gotta stick to the Hard default one.. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/553880-superman-shadow-of-apokolips/cheats With the newer tricks, it will be interesting to see if RTA can be beaten despite difficulty difference!

TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.

Posted: 8/16/2024 7:45 PM

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DrD2k9

He/Him

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Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1085
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KusogeMan wrote:

Superman Shadow of Apokolips GAMECUBE has 3 difficulties, in case me or someone else decides to TAS this, can I go for the unlockable Very Hard difficulty? Otherwise gotta stick to the Hard default one.. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/553880-superman-shadow-of-apokolips/cheats With the newer tricks, it will be interesting to see if RTA can be beaten despite difficulty difference!

In-game codes can be used to unlock harder difficulties and should still be Standard eligible.

Posted: 8/23/2024 6:50 PM
(Edited: 8/23/2024 6:50 PM)

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)

Joined: 4/17/2010
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TLH wrote:

feos wrote:
I turned your savestate anchored movie into a saveRAM anchored movie, and the very start of the game now desyncs. If I can't resync it, we may discuss granting an exception.
I see... I guess since it is an arcade-style game it also saves the scores in a leaderboard, so it is very hard to reproduce the exact same saveRAM. And that likely affects the RNG and the entire game since the spawning and behavior of all enemies is affected by RNG. This probably means that in this case the goal of complete reproducibility is hard to reach at this point...

Unfortunately, after a staff discussion, an exception hasn't been granted. But you can still submit the run and we can send it to the Playground class (granted it's well done).

TLH wrote:

Maybe for the future it would be nice to have a small note on the website or the rules on how to make TAS runs based on New Game Plus or unlocked features.

Added a note here: Wiki: EmulatorResources/Using#StartingANewMovieToRecord

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 8/24/2024 5:25 AM

Post subject: Ruffle latest build and PCem installation problem

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Evan0512

He/Him

Joined: 10/18/2017
Posts: 169
Location: San Francisco

I was trying to make a TAS of a Flash game. Should I use the latest Ruffle version (2024-08-24) to emulate a Flash game? Also, I was having an issue while I was trying to install PCem in a Linux computer. LibTAS was installed, but in Debian Bookworm stable version, I got the error message while it is trying to install:

Error: Dependency is not satisfiable: libwxbase3.0-0v5 (>=3.0.5.1+dfsg)

It doesn't work after I updated the packages of Linux.

Planned runs: Marble Madness (Arcade, Genesis J, GG/SMS) Proposed: Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD: regular, camera freeze) Ecco: The Tides of Time (Genesis, GG/SMS, CD; normal mode) Mario Kart DS (all cups, all missions) In progress: Grand Poo World 3 (all exits hard mode)

Posted: 8/24/2024 5:30 AM
(Edited: 8/24/2024 5:31 AM)

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CasualPokePlayer

Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (694)

Joined: 2/26/2020
Posts: 772
Location: California

Generally it is best to use the latest version of Ruffle available when starting the TAS, assuming said version has no issues. Note, you do need to use libTAS 1.4.6 to use fairly recent Ruffle versions. The PCem .deb package provided was built for Ubuntu 22.04. For any other version (e.g. Ubuntu 20.04 or Ubuntu 23.04) or distro (e.g. Debian), you need to build from source, as .debs are generally not compatible against different distros nor even different versions of the same distro.

Posted: 8/24/2024 6:47 PM

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Dacicus

Editor, Player (69)

Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050

Someone named Yoshimaster96 made a disassembly (available on GitHub) of Monster in My Pocket and reported, "Holding A+B+SELECT and pressing START lets you skip the text screen at the beginning of the game." Is that type of in-game code allowed nowadays?

Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.

Posted: 8/24/2024 6:59 PM
(Edited: 8/24/2024 7:01 PM)

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RetroEdit

Any

Editor, Reviewer, Player (169)

Joined: 8/8/2019
Posts: 152

I am not a judge, but I do want to note this sounds like a very standard software feature in many GB/C and GBA games (and I guess NES and SNES games as well probably) where pressing Start+Select+B+A performs a "soft reset". Funny enough, I've used this exact trick in Game & Watch Gallery 3 for basically the same reason. I personally didn't even think to consider this an in-game code, just as an alternative way of power-cycling, which is usually preferred in general because you have to wait for the boot logo if you just press the power button to reset the game.

Posted: 8/24/2024 7:03 PM

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feos

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Joined: 4/17/2010
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Not exactly new info https://cah4e3.shedevr.org.ru/cheatsbase.php#1080 Since it doesn't skip gameplay it sounds alright to include, but a movie that only adds that skip won't obsolete the current pub - gameplay has to be improved.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 8/28/2024 4:13 PM
(Edited: 8/28/2024 4:14 PM)

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McBobX

Reviewer, Experienced player (918)

Joined: 11/18/2011
Posts: 311
Location: Morocco

So I have a question about mode choice for Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions. Basically, the current TASes for this game both runs from power-on (which every run should be), meaning only Story Mode, however it is actually better to play on the Time Trial Mode (the speedrun mode for this game... The big reason for this is that it removes a quite boring part of the game which is about defending the tablet every time you want to warp... I believe we do have similar case of preferring speedrun mode for Braid. My question is: Would a TAS of same categories for Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions obsolete current ones if they're done on Time Trial mode? RTA runners also use Time Trials as well, so it will be convenient for comparison. I'm willing to improve one of them and I want to make sure which decision to make. Time Trial can only be accessed after clearing the game, thus we may use current Any% TAS for unlocking it (as verification movie).

I still learn more about English. https://www.youtube.com/user/McBobX100

I wrote:

Working is the best way to achieve goals in speedruning. Hardworking is a pain.

Posted: 8/29/2024 1:14 PM

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KusogeMan

Experienced player (674)

Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1773
Location: Brasil

battle network 1 has a game end skip glitch that was discovered after the TAS was made, would it be fair to just insert the game end skip and submit the old TAS with the glitch inserted at the end? would the old player that made the TAS need to approve using his moviefile? https://tasvideos.org/1560M im talking about reddit skip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR8xpDOfeLs it always bothered me how easy it would be to insert this at the end of the TAS

TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.

Posted: 8/29/2024 5:36 PM

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McBobX

Reviewer, Experienced player (918)

Joined: 11/18/2011
Posts: 311
Location: Morocco

KusogeMan wrote:

battle network 1 has a game end skip glitch that was discovered after the TAS was made, would it be fair to just insert the game end skip and submit the old TAS with the glitch inserted at the end? would the old player that made the TAS need to approve using his moviefile? https://tasvideos.org/1560M im talking about reddit skip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR8xpDOfeLs it always bothered me how easy it would be to insert this at the end of the TAS

I'm not judge, but my thought would be that you can use the inputs as long as you add him as a co-author... The input file is open to everyone anyway.

I still learn more about English. https://www.youtube.com/user/McBobX100

I wrote: