Note that the file name "Super Mario Land 4" probably refers to the label in the ROM header. The "Land" word is not present in the in-game title screen, nor on the cartridge label, nor on the game box.
About the game
Super Mario 4 (aka Super Mario Land 4) is a bootlegged hack of the Game Boy game Crayon Shin-Chan 4. The level design is completely different and is the main subject of the game's criticism due to the borderline unfair increase in difficulty when compared to Crayon Shin-Chan 4; this issue is also caused by the lack of a password system and continues. The game has four levels, but each are incredibly lengthy.
Tricks used
Zip through solid blocks: I found only one, in the last level. Saved some seconds.
Double hit: You can score 2 HP of damage to bosses if you hit them with both your bullets at the same time.
Suggested screenshot: 11725
Because it's the first killscreen you encounter when playing this game... It's extremely satisfactory to see it finally overcomed without getting hit.
Nach: Rejecting for utterly butchering the title of the game.
Nach: On a more serious note, since this is a serious submission submitted on a non-serious day, I'll unclaim it so it can be seriously judged by someone else. Seriously.
Noxxa: This bootleg appears to be decently notable, and compared to its base game it has a fair amount of unique content with its new level designs. The run itself is also well done, but the constant flying gets repetitive and its sound effects annoying over time. Accepting for the Vault.
As a matter of fact, I received this game as a kid and got fooled. I really believed this was an official game and it felt like such a downgrade from SML2 (which I had played a lot prior). Horizontal movement was even slower. No ?-blocks. Unfair deaths and no way to continue if you run out of all lives. The music which was so "not Mario".
I didn't think this game had a box art or cartridge art. Because my cartridge was blank.
In level 1, you neglected to keep going over the edge at the end?
In level 3, isn't it beneficial to walk on the carts so they start moving, giving you a boost? I don't remember if it works like that.
You bumped into a wall after bouncing off a penguin. Can't that be prevented?
I think some lag can be reduced if you opt to take the time to kill enemies.
Gotta love Super Mega Kirboid Land games. Impressive that they actually customized an ending screen. These hack makers usually don’t expect anyone to actually beat the game.
The TAS seems ok, but the game is quite bleh.
The TAS itself makes for a good watch, but the game choice is...less than amazing. This is a well-optimised run, but the game progresses at a very slow pace due to the nature of its mechanics. Threw in a "Yes" vote anyway.
this game was fun, never beaten it but nice to know it has an ending despite being bootleg
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
So if I understand correctly, a hack of Crayon Shin-Chan 4 just got published to Vault even though the rules for Vault clearly states that hacks are not eligible.
Was this a mistake or am I missing something here?
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11473
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
SmashManiac wrote:
the rules for Vault clearly states that hacks are not eligible
Citation needed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
the rules for Vault clearly states that hacks are not eligible
Citation needed.
Vault rules wrote:
*Hacks (defined as being modifications of an existing eligible game) are not eligible for this category. We demand hacks with entertainment value, therefore they are judged by the Moon tier requirements.
Note that the next line is
*Unlicensed and homebrew games are eligible but may be judged on a game-by-game basis based on their notability.
So it depends on which you classify this as I guess.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
I called it a bootleg (unlicensed game) in the judging comment, and judged it as such. I think for these purposes it's more relevant to consider the nature of the game release (this being a bootleg with cartridge releases in a number of countries), than of what the code makeup inside happens to be like. Otherwise you could also, say, ban Mega Man 2 from the Vault, because internally it really just is a hack of Mega Man 1.
That said, I do think the hack definition in the Vault rules should be made more clear and worded better.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 1/24/2018
Posts: 299
Location: Stafford, NY
Considering Mothrayas' comments, it seems to be "different enough" to fall in the "unlicensed/homebrew" category instead of the "hack" category, probably because of the redesigned levels. Does anyone else agree with SmashManiac's opinion?
c-square wrote:
Yes, standard runs are needed and very appreciated here too
Dylon Stejakoski wrote:
Me and the boys starting over our games of choice for the infinityieth time in a row because of just-found optimizations
^ Why I don't have any submissions despite being on the forums for years now...
I think for these purposes it's more relevant to consider the nature of the game release (this being a bootleg with cartridge releases in a number of countries), than of what the code makeup inside happens to be like.
Now while I don't disagree with this, for devil's advocate purposes, what if I were to take what the site would currently consider a hack and release it in a cartridge format? Would it then be eligible for vault?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11473
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Memory wrote:
Now while I don't disagree with this, for devil's advocate purposes, what if I were to take what the site would currently consider a hack and release it in a cartridge format? Would it then be eligible for vault?
I asked myself this question as well.
Since Vault wants clear cuts as opposed to figuring out subjective enough-ness, having been released in real world on a physical media, as opposed to web releases of patches, sounds like a clear cut for me.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Memory wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
I think for these purposes it's more relevant to consider the nature of the game release (this being a bootleg with cartridge releases in a number of countries), than of what the code makeup inside happens to be like.
Now while I don't disagree with this, for devil's advocate purposes, what if I were to take what the site would currently consider a hack and release it in a cartridge format? Would it then be eligible for vault?
I think it's important to consider here what the primary method of distribution would be for the work in question. For bootleg/unlicensed games, they are mass-produced on cartridges and in game boxes and are released that way. For this hypothetical hack scenario, it is released as a downloadable, often a patch to be applied on the base game, and if one were to release it on a cartridge it would in all likelihood not be its primary method of distribution.
So the bootleg, primarily distributed on cartridge, would follow unlicensed game rules, while the hack, still primarily distributed as a downloadable/patch, would still follow hack rules.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Now while I don't disagree with this, for devil's advocate purposes, what if I were to take what the site would currently consider a hack and release it in a cartridge format? Would it then be eligible for vault?
Mothrayas wrote:
I think it's important to consider here what the primary method of distribution would be for the work in question. For bootleg/unlicensed games, they are mass-produced on cartridges and in game boxes and are released that way. For this hypothetical hack scenario, it is released as a downloadable, often a patch to be applied on the base game, and if one were to release it on a cartridge it would in all likelihood not be its primary method of distribution.
So the bootleg, primarily distributed on cartridge, would follow unlicensed game rules, while the hack, still primarily distributed as a downloadable/patch, would still follow hack rules
I will play devil's advocate as well. Must the cartridge be "mass-produced?" Does "mass production" in this case refer to production method or production volume? There are services which will create a cartridge (complete with artwork and box) from a custom ROM, for a reasonable cost. These services will create multiple copies of a cartridge, but each is still hand-made--not mass production method, strictly speaking. If one were to have such a cartridge created, would it satisfy the "homebrew" criterion, even if only 1 such cartridge had been created, and created solely to satisfy this criterion?
Some information about this bootleg can be found here:
http://bootleggames.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Mario_4
It was released in 1997 and is said to be one of the "most common" Gameboy hacks, released on multicarts and rarely also on single carts.
"Most common" marks this as notable for me.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11473
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
£e Nécroyeur wrote:
I will play devil's advocate as well. Must the cartridge be "mass-produced?" Does "mass production" in this case refer to production method or production volume? There are services which will create a cartridge (complete with artwork and box) from a custom ROM, for a reasonable cost. These services will create multiple copies of a cartridge, but each is still hand-made--not mass production method, strictly speaking. If one were to have such a cartridge created, would it satisfy the "homebrew" criterion, even if only 1 such cartridge had been created, and created solely to satisfy this criterion?
I'll quote my IRC note:
02:58 <feos> I think the only part that wasn't clear in the rules is when something is a hack AND a homebrew
02:59 <feos> then we'd need to figure out what it is primarily. for physically distributed builds it's primarily a homebrew, for web distributed patches it's primarily a hack
But f you never ever distribute your rom-hack of SMB, and then release a single cartridge, then it's arguably a homebrew. But no one does it simply to mess with tasvideos, people release hacks and homebrews independently of us, so we have solid chance to know for sure what it is primarily.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
£e Nécroyeur wrote:
Memory wrote:
Now while I don't disagree with this, for devil's advocate purposes, what if I were to take what the site would currently consider a hack and release it in a cartridge format? Would it then be eligible for vault?
Mothrayas wrote:
I think it's important to consider here what the primary method of distribution would be for the work in question. For bootleg/unlicensed games, they are mass-produced on cartridges and in game boxes and are released that way. For this hypothetical hack scenario, it is released as a downloadable, often a patch to be applied on the base game, and if one were to release it on a cartridge it would in all likelihood not be its primary method of distribution.
So the bootleg, primarily distributed on cartridge, would follow unlicensed game rules, while the hack, still primarily distributed as a downloadable/patch, would still follow hack rules
I will play devil's advocate as well. Must the cartridge be "mass-produced?" Does "mass production" in this case refer to production method or production volume? There are services which will create a cartridge (complete with artwork and box) from a custom ROM, for a reasonable cost. These services will create multiple copies of a cartridge, but each is still hand-made--not mass production method, strictly speaking. If one were to have such a cartridge created, would it satisfy the "homebrew" criterion, even if only 1 such cartridge had been created, and created solely to satisfy this criterion?
I don't see how the same answer doesn't apply here. If a hack primarily distributed by download/patch has a (single) cartridge created, it is still primarily distributed by download/patch so is still classified as a hack. Bootleg unlicensed games are still primarily distributed by cartridge, with no formal downloadable release.
The definition of "mass" production doesn't really matter here, and it is impossible to know the scale of a lot of bootleg game releases. That's why bootleg/unlicensed games still have notability requirements.
feos wrote:
But f you never ever distribute your rom-hack of SMB, and then release a single cartridge, then it's arguably a homebrew. But no one does it simply to mess with tasvideos, people release hacks and homebrews independently of us, so we have solid chance to know for sure what it is primarily.
If your rom-hack does not consist in any published format and only a single cartridge of it exists, it would have a very hard time passing notability requirements. Just because this makes it a "homebrew" doesn't actually make it acceptable by default.
EDIT: Vault rule pages have now been updated to clarify the hack definition.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
