(Link to video)
Game objectives
  • Emulator used: BizHawk 2.2.2
  • TAStudio
  • Multi-disk bundler
  • Require more ROM: Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine Demo Disc 14
  • Firmware: SCPH7003 (U)
  • Aim fastest
  • Luck manipulation
  • Game information
  • My recommend basic tutorials at here and here
  • Skills damage data
  • Other TAS for compare
Advanced Information
  • RNG manipulation: most in them is depend time or how input buttons. Most time I need back to last scroll text, do something for change RNG
  • Change pet's like/dislike data: when create a new pet, it use RNG to create pet's data. I have make pet like Nuts Oil for my strategy.
  • Get more loyalty: when pass a week, it have random can get/lost 1 or 2 loyalty points. It need control for get little help in battles at early and mid game
  • Pet' raise up stats control: pet raise up what stats is depend RNG. My strategy is main target to Int stats, sub is Skill stats
  • Get/avoid events: before they happend/will come, just need change time it come
  • Reduce meet hard competitors: change time join tournaments can change some competitors. I make reduce monsters have high Life and Defense stats. But this's not work after get S cup
  • Give up unneed battles: for save time, I have give up/avoid to unneed battles.
  • Setup battle: before join any battle, change time for change first AI think in battle, this's help control AI actions after ready
  • Change AI think in battles: it's depend my actions/moving. Sometimes I can't avoid bad results, I need move out of range AI's attacks
  • Critical attacks: it's depedend time make attack. But this's still depend other things (example sussces call pet attack, hit rate, damage attack,etc)
  • Avoid AI can revival: some monsters can revival after got zero HP, for avoid this need change time attack to it
Notes
  • This time is my first time try do multi-disk in a TAS. For setup before start, must setup Monster Rancher 2 at disk 1, Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine Demo Disc 14 at disk 2
  • I'm not good with this games. This game have many ways can do. I'm alway worry my strategies, headache when planning, not sure it's best or not. I have remake 5th times for find best strategies, even try use Gut glitch of Fairy Hare in Monster Farm 2 (J version)
  • I have pick Pixie monster because it have high attack damage, fast Gut recovery and avaible at beginning. Subtype Pixie/Dragon will help have hight Int at start and can learn Fire Breath skill
  • With Errantry, just need go there for learn skill, not important for get success or failure
  • Avoid get new house for save time. If remember not wrong, it just help get more events. That's why with TAS, it's unneed
  • I think this run look like tutorial more than, didn't have any bug/glitch to do
  • With game Japan version can help make battles faster because it have a Gut glich but it can't skip trainning scenes, at tottaly it's slower English version.
  • Not target to get Great in trainning for save time. It can help more little points but maybe will lost alot frames to find it. In my run, just need it few times for get praise to pet
  • Praise pet for avoid make pet have Worst nature, avoid must learn evil skill, more chance to learn need skill (this's my logic, not sure it's correct or not)
Thanks
  • KurasuSoratobu in gamefaqs for need info
  • あすとろ第二代目 in nicovideo for compare run
  • someone shared skills data info, helped me should pick what skill to do

feos: This judgment either sets a precedent or introduces new policies. Judging...
feos: Delaying until the extra image that syncs with this movie is made.
feos: It's been a long journey, and a lot of things happened to make this submission acceptable. And it is acceptable in principle. But to be actually accepted, we need an extra image to be created by hand so that it's not anything copyrighted. That would allow us to reproduce such an image freely anytime, as many times as needed, now and in the future, for the sake of replaying this movie. Even on console such an image would spawn the same monster as this movie uses.
The only problem now is that no one has spare time and dedication to actually generate such an image. It's unfortunate, because in the end I have to reject this movie for breaking the rules we all agreed on. If at some future day such an image is finally produced, I can unreject this submission, and finally properly judge how it's played.

feos: Hey, look
feos: Yeah so the last 2 posts in the thread explain why it should be unrejected, and unlike me, Samsara knows the game, so I'm unclaiming this.
Samsara: Hi! I'm Samsara! I knows the game!
Alright, I think this one's gonna need some explanation.
In a vacuum, the original decision makes sense: If we strictly treat the second disk as a means of verification, then yes, we can't exactly legally provide it in the same way we can provide a verification input file. We can synthesize the same result in a legal manner, of course, but it leaves one particularly large elephant in the room, and that's simply "isn't any game image a means of verification?" Well, to answer that question, yes! Yes, that is exactly correct. No run can be verified without the right ROM or ISO, so... Why should that apply here? Sure, this is a unique case where "Disc 2" can be Literally Any Disc, but at the end of the day it's still just disc 2 of 2. I think for the sanity of the Judges, though, it's best to limit this freedom to just other game images. As, uh, """"fun"""" as it would be to track down an ISO of Wheatus's self-titled debut album, featuring hit single "Teenage Dirtbag", I don't think that's really reasonable or sustainable for us.
...Yes, for those of you who are wondering, that album does generate the Pixie/Dragon monster used in this run.
I don't really see the other issue (optimality of the approach) as an issue at all, given that the game itself is pretty RNG-heavy and has tons of room for potential improvement regardless of what monster is generated or what strategy is used. If anyone wants to put in the work to try other game images, other monsters, other approaches in general, I don't see why we should stop them or limit them.
Personally,
I'm well aware of how fickle Monster Rancher can be in its battles, and this TAS makes an absolute mockery of them. While I do feel the menuing could be a bit better in places (I'm aware some of it's RNG manipulation, but there's a lot of autofiring so I imagine there's some frames being lost at times), it's not nearly enough to reject over, and the real meat of the run (the battles) far more than make up for it. Just... If you're not familiar with the series, trust me when I say the battles are astoundingly fast.
Just in time to be 4 days late for the 5th anniversary of this submission, accepting!
fsvgm777: Processing.

TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Experienced Forum User, Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 14660
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6033: NhatNM's PSX Monster Rancher 2 in 58:54.55
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Expert player, Publisher (2182)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6311
Location: The land down under.
This time is my first time try do multi-disk in a TAS. For setup before start, must setup Monster Rancher 2 at disk 1, Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine Demo Disc 14 at disk 2
Yeah... Explain why you used a demo disk.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
NhatNM
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Experienced player (702)
Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam
for get Pixie/Dragon monster
A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Expert player, Publisher (2182)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6311
Location: The land down under.
Your thread asking this question: is possible change/remove a disk/rom while TAS?
feos wrote:
For games that require multiple discs, of course it's allowed.
feos wrote:
It is allowed as long as one is still loading an image for the same game, not a blank image, nor some other game.
Monster Rancher 2 is a single disk game. The demo disk is considered as another game, since demo disks feature multiple games as well as the game you wanted. (This is also a game, that requires disk switching, so there's the obvious question of "is there better"?) Also you didn't set your game correctly on top of that when making the TAS according to the header. Bonus: According to input. There's very impossible disk switching going on not during the 2 you made. Probably because of how the game's reading it by switching between on-storage memory.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
NhatNM
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Experienced player (702)
Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam
I don't understand that. This run still using current image, current features game, not bug from switch disk. This monster have availbe in this game, just hiding and waiting get from other disk This game make feature use multi disks for get new monsters. Game will read something from other disk (maybe Hex header, I don't know) then create a monster. Pepole on the world collected info what mosneters can get from other disks. I didn't see where I'm wrong from this feature
A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Experienced Forum User
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
I think the Monster Rancher games are an interesting case for us, since you can scan pretty much any CD in existence to get a monster from it. I haven't played any of the Monster Rancher games, so I don't know how they work aside from the aforementioned CD scanning, but can you catch monsters within the game itself?
Previous Name: boct1584
NhatNM
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Experienced player (702)
Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam
With main type, need complete events for make that monster avaible ingame. Maybe this's possible unlock all main type monster with events, I'm not sure, I didn't try get all monster before With sub type, most in them just need make combine monsters having. Some rare monsters only have from other disk. Example Kasumi: http://monster-rancher.wikia.com/wiki/Kasumi This multi disk feature still follow game rule, only create what monster already avaible. That's why I can't pick Golem (not avaible at beginning), the monster I guess it can do 1 hit KO to all AI About my monster, it's possible to get wihout need any other disk, but it need very long time to setup to get. Of course I can make TAS with default monsters having ingame, but I don't want later have someone will say "Boo! i know other monster can attack faster you"
A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists
Experienced Forum User
Joined: 1/8/2014
Posts: 55
I noticed that you're constantly mashing X throughout most of the run. Is there any reason why you do this? Not knowing the game myself, it seems pretty unnecessary and potentially detrimental to me. Edit: Also, for entertainment, I'd have to vote no. It's very repetitive; the only somewhat interesting parts are the fights, and even those are mostly TAS one-shotting its opponent. The most entertaining part to me was the birthday song, but probably only because I've never seen this game before.
LOAD TO SUNRISE
NhatNM
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Experienced player (702)
Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam
derula wrote:
I noticed that you're constantly mashing X throughout most of the run.
some for skip any can skip, some for selections, some for my measure. It's not affect to lag frames
A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists
Editor, Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 1466
Location: Not playing Puyo Tetris
Spikestuff wrote:
This time is my first time try do multi-disk in a TAS. For setup before start, must setup Monster Rancher 2 at disk 1, Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine Demo Disc 14 at disk 2
Yeah... Explain why you used a demo disk.
To explain this a little better, Monster Rancher on The PlayStation 1 and 2, uses the Game Disc (For Monster Rancher) to actually play the game. Also, the Monster Rancher game, has a function/feature where the game will stop the Console's CD/DVD Drive and allow the player to swap Discs. This must be done at a particular point or area of the game. The Player can't just swap discs whenever they like. If the player does swap discs, and the game is in "Swap Disc Mode", the game will read in some of the new Disc's data. Then Monster Rancher, which is still loaded into the Console's RAM, along with whatever Data was read by the game, stops the CD/DVD Drive again, and ask for the Monster Rancher Disc to be reinserted. After all that is done, and the Console has the Monster Rancher Disc back in the Console, the game can (I don't know the conditions for what you can or can't get according to the game) get a new Monster to raise/train/ect. Some discs give different monsters as well. Or the game may refuse to give you a monster based on, some condition. Pretty much any disc works for the Disc swap function in game that the console's drive can read successfully.
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war. The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
NhatNM
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Experienced player (702)
Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam
derula wrote:
It's very repetitive; the only somewhat interesting parts are the fights, and even those are mostly TAS one-shotting its opponent.
yes, it's cost must pay for get max Attack stat fastest as possible
hegyak wrote:
To explain this a little better,
thanks for full explain. That's why I as added basic tutorials on top. And I have more explain. All disk PS system can read then it can create monster, just depend that main type monstter already availbe or not
A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists
Active player, Experienced Forum User (375)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1647
Location: Brasil
Based on the explanations, it seems like a valid feature, as much as a Tingle Tuner from Wind Waker, i can now vote yes without questioning the validity.
TAS i'm interested: megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched fighting games with speed goals in general
Experienced Forum User, Site Admin, Skilled player (1216)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11227
Location: RU
This game series are silly. Here's what it allows, among all else:
Wikia wrote:
To obtain a Daina in Monster Rancher 2, use either the CD Jumpstart Preschool (PC) or Metallica - S&M (Disc 1). To obtain a Daina in Monster Rancher 4, use the DVDs The Godfather DVD Collection: The Godfather Pt. 1, Saber Marionette J to X Program 6, or Teen Titans: The Complete First Season (Disc 1). To obtain a Daina in Monster Rancher EVO, use the DVD Please Don't Eat My Mother.
We obviously can't accept any movie that uses a disk the author just recorded in the kitchen, or an album of a music artist, or a bad dump of PSX GTA2. If the game explicitly asks to use a specific disk that is relevant, it may be considered. We'll see.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Site Admin, Skilled player (1216)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11227
Location: RU
Oh man, they weren't even planning to make things bearable for us :D They endorse this feature on the very damn box cover!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Site Admin, Skilled player (1216)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11227
Location: RU
So I was looking at the manual and the only game explicitly mentioned as a monster source was Monster Rancher 1. If the publisher of this game explicitly encourages using "Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine Demo Disc 14" for this game to grab monsters from, then it is allowed. If not, it is not allowed. We can not possibly handle arbitrary images used in movies, we should only limit ourselves to images that are intended for use with a game. So far this movie looks like it should be rejected. The rules never addressed this, so I'll explain the problems that arise from using arbitrary images in the judgment. Unless someone finds the official encouragement from the publisher of this game to use the CD used here. The fact that the game constantly asks the player to try all the CDs they have doesn't mean we can allow all of them.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Player (33)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
Hi. I haven't watched the run for this yet, but I might be able to provide a little more info for standardizing these kinds of games. As discussed so far, Monster Rancher 1 and 2 have a special feature that allows reading from arbitrary discs to create a monster. What's actually read from the discs has long been studied, and while accurate information is out there, a lot of inaccurate stuff is out there too. A while back I spent some time reverse engineering the monster generation algorithm in Monster Rancher 1. It was pretty straightforward, and used only a few values from the disc TOC. I used this, as well as some data tables in the game, to create a program that generates arbitrary monsters with appropriate stats. You can find it here: https://github.com/OmnigamerSDA/MonsterMaker Monster Rancher 2 uses slightly different values from the TOC, but still functions in mostly the same way. The stat seeds, monster breeds, and subbreed tables are also currently unknown, but that's fairly straightforward to find. The game has more caveats - a number of breeds are locked right from the start, and others require larger barns and other ranch buildings. This just means you can't access all of them from a fresh file though. In any case, for future submissions, I would recommend using these generated ISOs instead of mandating specific commercial discs. There's no equivalent Maker for MR2 yet, but it shouldn't be too much work to develop. I just don't have the time to put in on it for at least a couple months.
NhatNM
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Experienced player (702)
Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam
feos wrote:
If the publisher of this game explicitly encourages using "Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine Demo Disc 14" for this game to grab monsters from, then it is allowed. If not, it is not allowed.
I'm afraid you had a bit mistake. Publisher or deverlopers didn't make list what CDs will get what monster (except few special cases as Dead or Alive). Even you put new CDs create from this year, it still have create monster for you.
A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Expert player, Publisher (2182)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6311
Location: The land down under.
Omnigamer wrote:
In any case, for future submissions, I would recommend using these generated ISOs instead of mandating specific commercial discs.
I'd rather have a legitimate disk such as the demo disk that exists rather than creating one that would spawn it. Or at least a sheet of data stating what you get with what disk.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Experienced Forum User, Player (33)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
From the game's perspective, they are all legitimate discs - it doesn't care where it came from. Any arbitrary burned music CD also generates a monster just fine. Limiting the disc pool to only commercial releases is an arbitrary restriction to the game, and significantly more work for a player to find an appropriate disc. For what it's worth, generating a disc does not trivialize strategy. The breed, sub-breed, and stats cannot be finely controlled. You can control two individual stat seeds, where each seed contributes a set amount to each attribute. For example, Seed 0x17 might give a POW a boost of 10 points, but takes SPD down by 8. IN MR1, there was also the caveat that one of the seeds also directly determined subclass, which gave a breed/stat tradeoff. There is challenge in identifying the best stat seeds and monster types for a given strategy, even with complete control of monster generation.
Warepire
He/Him
Editor, Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2174
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
I would personally be fine with a ruling that allows generated data for these scenarios, as long as such data does not break any specifications. Meaning in this case if certain ToC bytes in a CD cannot be certain values, those certain values in those bytes makes the data illegitimate. Nor that the data is unreasonable, like in the discussions about RAM. If the metrics of these kinds of features are understood, there's no reason to play by the book, specially if it means easier playback.
Experienced Forum User, Judge, Skilled player (1263)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy
Warepire wrote:
I would personally be fine with a ruling that allows generated data for these scenarios, as long as such data does not break any specifications. Meaning in this case if certain ToC bytes in a CD cannot be certain values, those certain values in those bytes makes the data illegitimate. Nor that the data is unreasonable, like in the discussions about RAM.
It's a nice idea, but we would also have to take in consideration that the specifications themselves are not absolute. See about audio CDs:
Wikipedia wrote:
Nonstandard or corrupted TOC records are abused as a form of CD/DVD copy protection, in e.g. the key2Audio scheme.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Experienced Forum User, Player (33)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
For this specific game, if I'm remembering right, out-of-range values are either empty lines in the data tables or are zeroed out, depending on the case. That doesn't really matter for setting precedent, but I also don't know how many other games use a system that allows for arbitrary discs.
Editor, Experienced Forum User
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 1466
Location: Not playing Puyo Tetris
This really does bring up a good question I have. What data is the game reading in? Where and what is being read in? Does it differ between games? Can a disc image be created by using a hex editor to create the "perfect" disc? Is that allowed?
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war. The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
Experienced Forum User, Site Admin, Skilled player (1216)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11227
Location: RU
Before I answer to everything, what ways to get those locked monsters in the game do we have? Are they absolutely locked and require just a certain ToC? What about SRAM, in-game cheats, passwords, other methods maybe? Emulator only methods like savestate anchors and memory poking are still disallowed I guess.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
NhatNM
He/Him
Experienced Forum User, Experienced player (702)
Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 600
Location: Vietnam
hegyak wrote:
Can a disc image be created by using a hex editor to create the "perfect" disc?
really to say, with a gamer know this game, he never need a "perfect" disc. Because with a new monster after created: - Few different stats can pass with a training times - Only have have basic default skills - Most them need this way for get needed subtype monsters, then combine to their main monsters. This part is long story, many things need to say why need monsters combine in this game.
feos wrote:
What about SRAM, in-game cheats, passwords, other methods maybe?
If I know something good, why I didn't make them in my run :D
A man come from Vietnam My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NhatNM/playlists