Post subject: Final Fantasy Legend 2
caitsith2
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Joined: 3/26/2004
Posts: 194
Did some fooling around in it. The randomness in this game cannot be manipulated. Any movement in an area that can generate random battles, counts, including moving onto towns. What happens if you have one step left and you move onto the object, the game will remember that it is supposed to issue a random battle. If the object entered is an area where random battles can be issued, the battle will be issued immediately, with whatever enemy group applies to that object. If the object entered does not have random battles issued, then the battle will be issued as soon as you enter from within that place another place where battles can be issued, or you leave the place altogether. Talk about cheap. When in a battle, even if you can run, Running instead of fighting will not manipulate when the next random battle will happen. Also, no matter what actions you pick for each of your characters, and no matter how long you wait, who attacks first remains the same. How effective the attack is, only depends on what you chose, and thats it.
caitsith2
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Player (46)
Joined: 3/26/2004
Posts: 194
Saving and soft resetting does not alter the random battle counter, other the soft reset makes the counter = counter - 1. Each soft reset/load will do this. Soft resetting during the battle and loading however, will get you the next counter. Could be useful for manipulating certain boss battles, where the number does vary. Also another use is for escaping a battle where the only outcome is all of your characters dying, with running not possible, provided you saved just one square before the battle, and entered the battle before doing the soft reset code.
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Can meat drops / skill gains be manipulated? If so it might be useful to tow along a Mutant to skip a large part of the game once you get to the dragon races. But if no skills can be manipulated it's probably best to use Monsters and Robots only.
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caitsith2
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Joined: 3/26/2004
Posts: 194
Random battles are.... not random. They happen in a fixed repeating sequence. From power on, the number of steps to the first battle appears to always be 25. From this point on, the sequence is 10 55 26 2 15 39 4 1 38 66 and finally, back to 10.
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Also, the monsters you fight are in a fixed sequence depending on where in the table you are and where the battle happens, but the table's reset every (hard but not soft) reset. ..but seriously. Is it possible to manipulate meat/skills? If not it's simple to declare it a 4-robot game and go from thee. If so you probably need to work out when you can get certain skills and transformations and all to see how many Monsters (I can't see mroe than one really), Mutants (again, more than 1 is probably too many) and Robots you'll need.. Humans would be pretty useless.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
caitsith2
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Player (46)
Joined: 3/26/2004
Posts: 194
About manipulating the outcome of the battle in terms of skills/meats/stats, you have to take different actions in the battles. Sometimes that involves running from prior battles. For enemy groups/counts, there are 256 groups/counts before they repeat. I looked at the 2 seperate varaibles above the step counter, and both of them have a general effect on the battle outcom. One affects the battle order, and the other affects whether the mosters give skills/stat boosts/meat. Both can be manipulated by how you attack in the battle, to some extent. In other words, getting Dunatis to give one of your mutants teleport, can be manipulated.
Joined: 8/13/2005
Posts: 356
Location: Canada
I figured we should have a topic for it since we've been discussing it MORE than Final Fantasy Legend on the Final Fantasy Legend topic. As for the status of this game, I might try it but I haven't done a TAS before. If anyone else would like to do this, then I can assist because I've been thinking about it for a while. I've been talking to a few very helpful GameFAQs posters (namely Hasukawa Kazuyaa and Saint Cyan) about the use of the "dragon warp glitch" to speed through this game. The jist of it is that when you reach the dragon race circuit after Venus' world, if you're able to cast teleport, you can leave the race circuit and have a dragon to cruise around on indefinitely. You still have encounters, however you move at (potentially crazy) dragon speed and you can walk through walls. To access this glitch without a gameshark, you need to have a Mutant in your team. Monsters can learn teleport, but never before the dragon race. Mutants can only learn this ability from Dunatis and Venus before the dragon race. So a Mutant is stuck in your team if you want optimal time. Humans and Mutants will not make great team members because they require many battles and a lot of equipment to become powerful. Monsters are weak, but require the least work. After a great deal of consideration and discussion, I think that the optimal team for a TAS of this game is Robot/Robot/Baby-D/Mutant F. The Robots can use any chest items to be very powerful without ever battling. The Monster is low-maintenance, and will face a minimum of 2 battles before Ashura's Tower. In Ashura's Tower, they will be able to become a Medusa to petrify Venus (Venus is very difficult; this is probably the easiest way to do this by far). The role of the mutant is to learn Teleport from Dunatis or Venus, and minor contributions in forced battles early on. The only dungeon that would be accessed after Venus' world is the Nasty Dungeon. There you can find goodies including: Hyper, Laser, Parasuit, Samurai Bow, Ogre Axe, Catclaw, Gungnir, Sun Sword, Dragon Sword, Glass Sword, Flare, Muramas, Defend Sword Wizard Wand, Karate, Jyudo, Arthur Armor, Dragon Armor, Dragon Helmet, and Ninja Glove. These will be used to outfit the robots. The Wizard Wand may be used to attempt to make the Mutant useful. Some of those may be converted into cash. After that, we'd head straight to the center of the worlds and face the group of Fenrirs (using Hyper) to attain the most powerful level of monster. Hopefully we'd end up with a Kusanagi. Then run to the end, possibly with a fifth party member like Dad (nobody seems to know if that works or not). Damage against the final boss will be from the two very powerful robots and one fairly powerful monster. If it is easily possible to gain a Seven Sword... well, then the story sort of writes itself. :P Luck manipulation: -Battles can't be avoided by saving and using a soft reset on the square before a battle begins. Small waits, input and menu access do not help. This will still be done very, very frequently. -Battle outcome is determined by the last actions performed in battle. One round is determined by the previous. The first round of a battle is determined by the last round of the previous battle. This is terribly awkward, since it essentially means that each battle is affected by ALL battles beforehand. Small waits, input and menu access do not help. Picking different actions for characters in a round of battle does not help, unless the action is executed. -Old GB units allow for an easy exploit using a hard reset to gain stat boosts repeatedly. Since we won't be concerned with stat boosts (they're too slow), this is of no interest to us. I don't know whether it would be emulated correctly anyways, since it works on a GB, but not a GBC or GBA. Previous battle outcome determining luck is totally awful. For those who haven't thought deeply about what this means, you can't avoid every fight between Babywyrm and Rhino... but if you could and the Rhino fight goes poorly, you have to try doing something else in the Babywyrm battle and then do the entire first world again. Hopefully that type of thing wouldn't happen. I may still fight battles that can be resolved in few actions, particularly if it is possible to win a prize (ie. Asigarus in the first world). The current best time that I've heard of is Saint Cyan, who didn't measure it very precisely. He says he was just over two hours. I believe his time was done with a "door" item hacked in, with Robot/Robot/Monster/Monster. Still, I envision that luck manipulation and the ability to avoid all encounters would lower this substantially.
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
I used to play this game awhile back in highschool. I only ever finished it once, and only once. I never knew about the dragon trick, either. I had a standard party of Male and Female human, Male and Female Mutant, eheh. I'm looking forward to seeing this done, though, it's a pretty good game. I wonder, though, would a non-glitch run be considered too? You'll skip a lot of the game using the glitch, and a non-glitch run would be fun too. Even if it would be longer. What sort of party set-up would that require? Hmm..
Joined: 8/13/2005
Posts: 356
Location: Canada
I think that for that one it would still be fast to avoid mutants and humans. They can only gain one stat point per battle, so to attain any reasonable amount of power at all you're talking about at least 50 battles. I think that for a non-glitch run, some combination of robots and monsters would be quickest. I'd say four monsters, but you can only get two monsters of the highest level, and since you'd need to go through dungeons anyways, two robots and two monsters would probably be quickest. One of the GameFAQs posters mentioned that they did a no-save speedrun and it was just over five hours. With the ability to skip encounters there's no way it would be anywhere near this long. BTW, an alternative group for the glitch run would be one robot, two monsters and a mutant. This could cut down on the time spent in Nasty Dungeon, but to get a second high-level monster you'd need to fight TianLung (death immune). I don't know whether that would be a worthwhile tradeoff or not.
Joined: 8/13/2005
Posts: 356
Location: Canada
Okay, it really appears that Medusa is the only low-level monster with a reasonable death attack. This is especially great because it works on (I think) literally everything up until Venus, and after that you can grab a dragon pretty much immediately. Using the warp glitch, I count 16 compulsory battles. Some extras will have to be fought for the monster's sake. If this were FF1, I'd say "forget the monster", but I have a feeling luck manipulation will be very, very difficult to yield a good outcome and a lot of compromises will have to be made. Anyways, assuming I've learned this monster-morphing crud correctly, the fastest way to attain a Medusa is to select a Baby-D as your monster, proceed to the second world. Eat WereRat meat to become a Sprite, and eat Snake meat to become a Medusa. That will carry the game for a while. In fact, only two compulsory fights occur before this is possible. At the end of the game, it's possible to clear a battle of Fenrirs by just using the Hyper cannon. That would turn a Medusa into a DarkRose, which is waaaaay the heck stronger, but pretty crappy relative to other high level monsters. After attaining DarkRose, fighting one extra battle to attain a stronger form (ie. Athtalot, Kusanagi, Titania) may be faster. Kusanagi is probably the best offensively, so they need to eat a dragon meat (like Sei-Ryu). Then on to the endboss. I haven't started playing yet, but I'm confident that Robot/Robot/Baby-D/Mutant-F is faster than Robot/Baby-D/other monster/Mutant-F. Changing monster forms is going to require a lot of effort, and you actually need to kill things for it to happen. I think gathering some extra chests (for a much greater net result) while avoiding all battles is probably faster than fighting 2 extra, very difficult battles. Still, it might be worth doing a test run of another party. This totals 19-20 battles. Some extras may be fought if they severely benefit luck manipulation or if they drop useful items. I theorize that only a small amount of money will be needed, spent on ability restoration. I still need to think about which chests are worth getting.
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
Sounds awesome. Go for it! :D I spent some time looking over the monster morph charts, and I STILL don't get it. I think I have an idea... but I couldn't plan a proper 'diet' for a monster character to make a run on the game with. I stayed away from the Monsters when I played the game normally years ago for the same reason, I had no idea what would happen with em.
Joined: 7/24/2007
Posts: 74
Nothing came of this huh? That's a shame.
Joined: 8/13/2005
Posts: 356
Location: Canada
I never even started, and this was a good long time ago. I found the fact that I couldn't find a way to skip battles really frustrating. Even if I had the patience for TASing, I'm not sure I would for a game with this style of RNG. Also, I'm a slacker in general.
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Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada
I only ever beat this game once, and I hated it. It'd be awesome to see this game torn apart.
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Party: 1 Robot. I hope to get catclaw somewhere. Buff him with AGL bug using karate from Bl. Belt at central shrine. Increase AGL/Health until Arsenal can be killed. 1 Mutant M. Needs -warning, -surprise, teleport, explode, stongaze. -warning saves time obviously in random encounters. I need to time it again, but I'm pretty sure running from a battle is faster than save+soft reset where possible. -surprise is to help with killing Bl. Belt + party when getting karate, also to get a Strike First on Arsenal because that's awesome. teleport is for the dragon race. Explode to use on the Arsenal because that's the only useful thing that our puny mutant could possibly do, except perhaps take a large hit from the smasher reducing the damage to robot. stongaze is optional, but could help with getting karate and with easier use for gazing mini-boss monsters. 2 monster. One Baby-D to get medusa early to stongaze... everyone. Ideally the second monster would become an Evil Eye. And if possible, I would want the Medusa to become an Evil Eye at some point. These will be used on bosses, and to take down Bl. Belt (and others in the party) when getting karate for the robot. I do not understand how this works. -- If my timing was right, running from combat is faster than soft resets. This means run when possible, and once I reach the first encounter than can not be run from I have to soft reset to avoid all battles until the next forced battle. This means (for example), since you can not run from your first (turn of) battle with Mr.S you have to soft reset all battles until BabyWyrm. No unforced encounters except to get Medusa! -- I was under the impression that 'random' encounters were cyclic based on how many moves through enemy territory had been made, so I started timing it. In world 1, I got this
51	
26	26
2	 2
15	15
39	39
4	 4
1	 1
38	38
66	66
10	10
55	55
as my cycle. This pattern continues forever. Then I loaded up different stages in different worlds with different 5th party members, and started getting different cycles. I was hoping to know in advance how many battles I would have to fight, which would have been easy. Now I know I would have to determine the cycle in every world (or region of that world?), with and without the corresponding 5th party member. I would also have to know how the cycle is treated when entering a new world, and also when going back to the original world. Does it start from scratch every time I enter a new world? Does it just keep on counting squares from where it left off in the previous world? &c. The advantage of knowing all this is being able to time an entire world without actually having to go through it. Stepping into a safe area (town, center of the world) does not count as a move for the monster spawn cycle counter. Stepping out of a safe area does. The original square you are placed in after a soft reset does, if you are in a monster area. -- Are magi taken away from you for the encounter with Arsenal if you have any? This is good information to know, as speed and power magi could boost my robot. -- Route. Up to Race World it is fairly simple. No unforced battles except to get medusa. Turn all enemies to stone where possible. Get as many of the desired mutant abilities as possible. Teleport out of the race with fastest dragon. 1. My favored route. After getting dragon, go find a catclaw somewhere (Edo? If I have enough GP). Then go straight to central shrine (take the endgame teleport backwards). Robot should be equipped with items that give him the most life. Fight Bl. Belt parties and always get karate. Kill them with stongaze. Use AGL bug to get Robot lots of health and AGL. If I am unable to get Evil Eye in guardians world (is it even possible?) do that now, or when getting catclaw. Kill the arsenal. 2. Another good route. After getting dragon, go to the nasty dungeon. Collect powerful weapons and armor. Go fight the arsenal. If this is the route taken, perhaps two robots could be reasonably equipped. Gungnir is a good grab because it never misses, so Robot can be maxed out for STR to do good damage. If this route is the one used, we can get hyper and use it on Haniwa to get 7-sword, though it will require AGL to land some hits, and uses STR to determine damage. After nasty dungeon, go backwards through endgame teleport and kill Arsenal. It would be nice to be able to figure out how many frames this world will take without actually TASing it first. 3. Probably no good, but still worth thinking about. After getting dragon, go to Valhalla World. Go through the back entrance of Valhalla Palace and kill Odin. Make sure he drops Gungnir. Equip robot with Gungnir, equip high life and defense monster with masmune magi. Go kill the Arsenal. Maybe need to kill some Paladin/Bl. Belt groups to get items to buff Robots STR. The main drawback I see with this route, is how am I going to kill Odin? My guys are all still puny at this point. Odin has 3700 life and strong attacks - especially lightning - and also has OdinCrow and Sleipnir. I would probably need monsters with O-All or O-Damage. I have completed the game with 4 monsters before, so monsters can kill Odin. Note that none of these include killing TianLung or Fenrir for meat. They are quite far out of the way. Perhaps The first route where I have to get lots of karate for Robot could do Fenrir. Twice. This would mean we have to walk back through central shrine without our dragon. That's a lot of time and I don't see it being viable. You can not have a 5th party member when fighting Arsenal. Haniwa can not be killed with StonGaze because he has O-All protection. -- From what I can tell, lag is not an issue in this game. IIRC, battle outcomes can be affected by which attacks are used. This also includes from which slot in your character inventory the item used is in. This also includes the order your people are placed in (reorder them with select on overworld). I do not remember if this includes your large shared inventory. Here I show how the beginning of the game might look, up to killing BabyWyrm. Here is a useful site with information on this game. Here is a useful youtube channel.
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Ambassador, Experienced player (697)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
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Excellent ideas, I hope this works out. If it compares to FFL1 then running is faster than doing a reset, but not by much. Also, I found that timing the soft reset gave me more options in manipulating luck. It might be necessary to get some things to happen. You may also be able to spend a few frames to manipulate longer periods between battles, saving lots of time overall. Manipulating the mutant's abilities is going to be difficult but should be doable. I understand most of the monster changing chart. In FFL1 the system can be abused to get higher level monsters from any level meat. But this system is different. You can't get Evil Eye without meat of a high level monster. To go from Baby-D to Medusa in one meat you need meat of Silver or Griffon. Jaguar won't work because of the A/B/C modifier. Similarly, Medusa becomes Evil Eye with meat of Demoload or Sylph, both endgame enemies. What about the Xcalibr from Final dungeon? It always hits too and affects a whole group I think. You can buy catclaw in Final town. Best way to get the gold for it is probably selling treasure picked up in dungeons.
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Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
TheAxeMan wrote:
Also, I found that timing the soft reset gave me more options in manipulating luck. It might be necessary to get some things to happen. You may also be able to spend a few frames to manipulate longer periods between battles, saving lots of time overall.
I did notice that resetting on the first possible frame vs a different frame gives different enemy lineups for the next battle. However, timing has nothing to do with how often a battle occurs as far as I can tell. The number of spaces you have to move before your next battle is a hard set number, and can't be manipulated.
TheAxeMan wrote:
To go from Baby-D to Medusa in one meat you need meat of Silver or Griffon. Jaguar won't work because of the A/B/C modifier. Similarly, Medusa becomes Evil Eye with meat of Demoload or Sylph, both endgame enemies.
FreshFeeling posted a way to get Medusa before Ashura by eating two meats. This would be better I think because then you can stone Woodman, Ashura, phagocyt, which would be very beneficial.
TheAxeMan wrote:
What about the Xcalibr from Final dungeon? It always hits too and affects a whole group I think. You can buy catclaw in Final town. Best way to get the gold for it is probably selling treasure picked up in dungeons.
Getting Xcalibr is also an idea worth considering. The final dungeon doesn't have much loot in it, but it is also much shorter than nasty dungeon. I don't anticipate choosing many (any?) treasure chests for items that my party will not use in battle. Any gold that I need should be gotten through forced battles, and if I sell any loot, it will be items won during battle. We'll see. This first round will definitely have to be a test run for me so I can familiarize myself with the game and stuff. How much gold will I have when? Can stoned enemies drop meat? (Sad, but I really don't know). Does counter/revenge work against the smasher? I doubt it. These sorts of things. Depending on how much damage Evil Eye can do with Beam against Arsenal, it might be better to have one monster and two mutants who both explode, but first I need to know how much damage Explode does to the Arsenal. Etc.
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Editor, Skilled player (1172)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I spot a duplicate topic. Well, another one for the same game, anyway. More importantly, I've decided to look around a little for useful memory addresses. Just a glance, but 64 bytes starting from address 0xC0A0 look suspiciously like where the RNG stuff is placed. Also... 1) If running away was perfect, it's this fast. (Hacked a favorable RNG) 2) Fastest we can "dodge" an encounter by reset. 3) Going into battle just to manipulate the RNG by failing to run. The first case is fastest, but we need the right RNG, of course. The second case is slightly slower, but if we need to keep the RNGs for other things untouched, such as what enemy shows up next, this is definitely what we want. The third case increments a bunch of RNGs quickly while still resetting out of the battle. Slow, but theoretically would allow a different outcome for future bosses, or re-allow the faster run away. You can adjust the frame we reset on to change the number of RNG increments. Just popping in while taking a break from The Final Fantasy Legend. I felt like picking through this game a little while letting my head cool down from the planning I did for FFL1. I have practically no familiarity with FFL2. I have no plans for running FFL2, but maybe I'll try if I still have some sort of momentum after finishing FFL1.
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I broke a door. And the others. This is the infamous Trash Can glitch being used for a purpose besides Power and Speed potions. The game sets aside two bytes per item: The first byte identifies what the item is, and the second byte tells us how many uses it has. There's 16 item slots in your inventory set aside for this. The 17th slot, where the trash can is located, when you attempt to use it, will make the game think you're using the 17th item in your inventory. That spot is reserved for other things. The first byte, in this case, is your MAGI counter. The second byte is in two parts: The upper nybble tells us who is equipped with the Power MAGI, and the lower nybble tells us how many Power MAGI we have. We can equip the Power MAGI on our fourth character to maximize the number of uses on our trash can. If you leave everyone else unequipped of MAGI, try using the trash can exactly 16 times (with the right MAGI count that identifies a usable item). Suddenly, the Power MAGI we put on our fourth character is now on the third character. What the hey?! Keep reequipping the Power MAGI on the fourth character for a theoretical infinite use of whatever item the MAGI counter says it is. To minimize the number of uses, we keep the Power MAGI unequipped. Using up the trash can so that it has 0 uses left will set the MAGI counter to 255, a blank slot of a normal item. I've read from GameFAQs that if your main inventory is full, and you glitched your MAGI counter like this, then you can get a new item drop from a battle and overwrite the MAGI counter (and stuff relating to the Power MAGI). One use is so that we have an unusually high Power MAGI count. Up to 15, according to RAM watch, though this would be displayed as 5 in game. Another use is, as demonstrated in my little test, to simply walk through whatever MAGI-required door we wish, but picking up any MAGI might well trap us when that counter is reset to zero. If an item drop can overwrite this counter while it's glitched at 255, we can protect ourselves from this danger of being locked out, if it turns out we need to do it. One question I have: Is it possible to trigger the glitch any earlier? Probably not; You need 29 MAGI before you can start using the trashcan (All items with IDs 1~28 are various weapons and shields, none of which I think are usable outside of battle; 29 is the Cure potion). By miracle of timing, we can defeat Dunatis to get our 29th MAGI. Get our Teleport on a Mutant. Then dragon races immediately and glitch it. Another question I have: Are there any earlier plans I'm unaware of that already took this into account? If not, then how much would this affect the route? Yep, I'm just playing through the game normally, enjoying all the brokenness I'm causing to it. I may as well report my findings while I'm relaxing with the game I should have enjoyed years ago.
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Posts: 775
Location: Deign
http://www.shenafu.com/ffl2/weapon.php From that page it says power magi adds 22 attack strength to robots. Is this for each magi or is that a constant? If it's for each, you could 1 hit kill the final boss with 7-sword.
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Editor, Skilled player (1172)
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jimsfriend wrote:
http://www.shenafu.com/ffl2/weapon.php From that page it says power magi adds 22 attack strength to robots. Is this for each magi or is that a constant? If it's for each, you could 1 hit kill the final boss with 7-sword.
It's difficult to say. But I get the impression that the regular bonus, the 5+MAGIs bonus, is what is applied. Considering the fact the list also shows things like monster/mutant abilities giving Robot HP and stats, which can't be equipped on a Robot. But that's my guess. The MAGI isn't equipped like any other item, is it? It's worth testing, though -- A chance to one-shot the final boss would certainly be nice. It pays to do some testing to see if we can write an item into the MAGI counter! I'm looking at the possibility of giving our Mutant a number of stat-boost potions from the Trash Can itself. If we glitch the MAGI count, I'm hoping we can glitch a convenient set of stat-boost potions all the way out to maxed stats. The potential drops need to be as close as possible to the ID of the Power potion while still below it. I see a Paladin in the monster list carrying the Ninja glove, just 5 IDs below the Power Potion. How easy is it to fight one of those? And pick up just 5 MAGI from somewhere, and we get our 99 Strength Mutant ready to smash stuff. Another MAGI, and we boost the Agility to 99 so said smashing actually hits. The other possibilities... They don't look so nice. The Silver Helm from a Samurai is the next closest, and that's 16 IDs away. It gets worse from there... How useful are 99 stats on a Mutant or Human, out of curiosity? My unfamiliarity is pretty painful... I can look up stats, but I can't tell you if it's practical. For all I know, the Paladin is dummied out, or the most common thing around in the next world. I simply haven't seen one yet.
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The only monster that I recall seeming rare was Haniwa (the dude with 7-sword). All the others are fairly constant. The guy who made that website I think also made ffl2 hacks, so he may have gotten the robot bonus from unequipable items (monster skills) by that method. Most magi are not equipped like any other item. Heart and Masmune iirc will show up in your inventory during a battle. 99 strength is not the limit. 99 is the limit of what can be gained from random bonuses after winning a battle. If you then equip a Giant helm your effective strength is 109 I think is how it works. http://www.shenafu.com/ffl2/weapon.php The usefulness of strength is determined by the weapon formula. On Tank, there is no usefulness, damage is constant within a range -defense multipliers on the enemy. 7-sword from that page says Str*15; attack up to 7 times, depending on Agl vs mob; so that is pretty useful strength. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6XOFnPmawg#t=1m0s he has 254 strength, though he used cheats to get it.
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Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I'm wondering about how we can go about slaying a Paladin for his loot. Given the possible location I saw a Paladin from here, this does not look like a battle one can easily win. Where can we pick up a free Hyper cannon, out of curiosity? I don't think I can find one on my own, not without needless exploration. If we can slay a Paladin quick and steal their Ninja glove, then the optimal party might even be this: 0-1 Robots: They can get strong from equipment, but if we want to use the bug to permanently boost their Agility, how can we quickly empty out the 40 uses of each Karate? Is one even needed up until we defeat Dunatis? 0-2 Humans: I'm not exactly sure what they bring that a mutant can't, but they can be buffed to 99 (and beyond with a bit of equipment) when we glitch the MAGI count from a Paladin battle. We can completely unequip them so we have slightly less menu time in battles, at a slight cost of removing their junk first thing. 1-3 Mutants: It's clear we need one. Getting Teleport from Dunatis is probably the best idea. Beyond that, glitch up an infinite source of Power and Speed, then stroll over to the final boss. 1 Baby-D: Become Medusa. StonGaze. Win versus the first set of compulsive battles, until after Dunatis. Maybe turn the monster into something half-decent later. I think I'll TAS up a test run. Human, Mutant, Robot, Baby-D. The most "balanced" party might actually be the fastest. ... Yeah, I froze up at the names for FFL1 after all... EDIT: I just looked at the description for ChainSaw: Instant kill; cannot cut if Str < Def-9; or against O-Weapon if Str < 2*(Def-4) It can cut through the O-Weapon, assuming you have ridiculous strength. The final boss has 99 defense and a trait that effectively gives O-Weapon. So all we need is 2*(99-4) Strength, or 190, and we can get our insta-death. A Robot nails 192 Strength with six Sun swords, or with equivalent strength-boosters. I'm curious if we can cause an insta-death this way, filling up the seventh and final Robot slot with the ChainSaw. Or is there something I'm missing? Do we still need Agility in this case?
Former player
Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign
Hyper is only available in the nasty dungeon. You should be able to gaze a paladin. Empty the uses of karate by: original amount 40. equip it's now at 20. unequip it's now at 10. equip it's now at 5. etc or something like that. I have never used chainsaw. Getting 6 sun swords would be quite time consuming. That website has a maps page. I have saved all the maps and put them in a .rar http://www.mediafire.com/?sna5oskewu812ym these maps tell you which items are available in chests and also is helpful for counting movement squares if it comes down to that.
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Editor, Skilled player (1172)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
jimsfriend wrote:
Hyper is only available in the nasty dungeon. You should be able to gaze a paladin.
The Hyper being in Nasty Dungeon doesn't sound bad, actually. We might need it to insta-kill other specific random encounters anyway. If a status effect that hits the group were to be successful on something, does it always hit the entire group?
jimsfriend wrote:
Empty the uses of karate by: original amount 40. equip it's now at 20. unequip it's now at 10. equip it's now at 5. etc or something like that.
Every time I equipped a Punch, Kick, or Headbut on my Robot, the uses don't go down like they do for swords, shields, guns, and so forth. Are you saying the Karate is different from the Punches, Kicks, and Headbuts in this fashion?
jimsfriend wrote:
I have never used chainsaw. Getting 6 sun swords would be quite time consuming.
There's also the Glass sword, Xcalibr, and Gungnir. As far as I know, from reading those maps, there are 2 Sun swords, 1 Glass sword, 1 Xcalibr, and 1 Gungnir in nifty little boxes for us to crack open and snatch for ourselves. Already, that's 5 of the 6 we need.
jimsfriend wrote:
That website has a maps page. I have saved all the maps and put them in a .rar http://www.mediafire.com/?sna5oskewu812ym these maps tell you which items are available in chests and also is helpful for counting movement squares if it comes down to that.
Those maps are definitely helpful. Pointing them out actually made me take a closer look at them, thanks.