Topic by Bag_of_Magic_Food

Posted: 9/24/2007 10:49 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Yeah we made it together, but I don't think it's up to date with all the latest tricks, so you should still do some other research.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 9/25/2007 12:27 PM

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MUGG

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What about the 'Play the Demos' Glitch? It lets you skip the intro level.

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Posted: 6/5/2008 6:24 PM

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MUGG

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By ducking 8 frames after you gained running speed and releasing another 8 frames and repeating, you save ~1 frame (~1 pixel). Level 1 without time-saver Level 1 with time-saver (~0.9 sec saved) (J) ROM used. Unfortunately another time-saver which takes away from entertainment..

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Posted: 6/5/2008 7:43 PM

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KDR_11k

Joined: 1/23/2006
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It's farfetched but would the normal route in Macro Zone possibly save some time over the shortcut because it's not an autoscroller?

Posted: 6/5/2008 9:03 PM

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TheRandomPie_IV

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I actually found the ducking version more entertaining than the normal version. There's not a lot you can do entertainment wise even without the ducking method, but this makes it more interesting strategically in places.

Posted: 7/31/2008 2:14 AM

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MUGG

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MUGG wrote:

Level 1 without time-saver Level 1 with time-saver (~0.9 sec saved) (J) ROM used.

Level 1 with time-saver (~1.6 sec saved)

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Posted: 9/24/2009 5:52 PM

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MUGG

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Some of you might know about the pipe glitch in super mario land 2. You enter a pipe, pause, press select to leave the stage. Then upon visitting a new level you go through the ground and will land on some glitchy area where an exit tile is nearby, so you can finish levels pretty fast using this bug. (Only works in Japanese versions and US v1.0) This glitch is not emulated properly in such a way that you can do it in every level. It is, however, to my knowledge, supposed to be executable only in a few levels. How do I go about finding out those places? I wouldn't like to buy the NTSC version via ebay or something just for a TAS-related matter here... Isn't there a list or a easy way to find out about those specific levels the glitch works in?

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Posted: 9/25/2009 6:07 AM

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andymac

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Don't you have the J ! rom for creating the movie file with the duck glitch? you just said that the pipe glitch works on that version. Anyway, if you think that the problem is with the emulator (ie emulates incorrectly), then you are mistaken. VBA 21 fixes the echo ram bug but still synchs with the dream team movie of SML2 because the movie file does not have the "echo ram fix" flag set to 1.

Measure once. Cut twice.

Posted: 9/25/2009 8:54 AM

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MUGG

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Well I did the glitch on VBA21 with the japanese ROM, I made sure that I played till Macro Zone 1 from power-on. And the glitch seems to work everywhere, which it apparently shouldn't. I could try it again but I'm not confident the result will change

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Posted: 9/25/2009 10:29 AM

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andymac

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This should be the result of using the pipe glitch: You will always fall through the floor no matter what. This happens on the actual gameboy. The first section that you fall down should be the exact same as the second section that you fall down. You will not, at any point in time encounter breakable blocks while falling until the mashed up part. This is not the case with the original dream team run, as they encounter a wall of breakable blocks. About half of the levels, you will fall, and land on flat ground, and not be able to fall any further. If you were to run right, you will encounter a solid wall. Don't play the original dream team movie, as it will mean that the echo ram is emulated incorrectly. I used VBA21 to check this, and can verify that this is in fact the case. EDIT: important. I think I may have found a way to increase the speed even more than the pixel glitch by jumping afterwards, and releasing the dpad. Saves 2 pixels every 8 frames ( I think) you can maintain your speed in the air by continuously hopping. to confirm this, is it possible for you to give me the adresses of mario's speed?

Measure once. Cut twice.

Posted: 9/25/2009 12:13 PM

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MUGG

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ah I see... But as I heard it still seems to work sometimes? Just to a lesser extent? About pixel-saving, I cannot find a faster way by using your instructions. I didn't use a speed-address for the production of the demonstration, but I made sure that it is optimal. Hope you really did find a new trick there, because always jumping would obviously make a better movie than crouching.

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Posted: 9/25/2009 1:13 PM

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andymac

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I can only get it working some of the time, but when I did, I triple checked that it saved 2 pixels every 8 frames. (1,2,1,2,1,2,2,3 instead of 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) I could be wrong. counting pixels is a difficult task. I got that wrong, I counted the pixels wrong three times. Address A202 is maro's speed, and is only measured in pixels. There are no subpixels. It turns out that the pixel trick has nothing to do with ducking, only slowing down, and your normal oscilation (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) is considered faster than this oscilation (1,2,1,2,2,1,1,2) even though they are exatly the same overall. Slowing down slightly, by pressing backwards or ducking and sliding will put you into this oscilation, and pressing forward again will bring you to the normal oscilation. you will notice that the "slower" oscilation has two 2's adjacent to each other. By swithching between the "slow" oscilation and the "fast" ones at the right time, we gain a pixel. Pressing backwards for 2 frames, forwards for 4 frames backwards for 2 and forwards for 6 frames is, as far as I know the fastest method of travel on the ground. This is very hard to do as it only works sometimes, and with very specific setups (meaning, I have done it once and have never been able to do it again). The pixel trick can also be used in the air as well. EDITAGAIN: you can now use the pixel trick in the air. watch this short demonstration video to see how. it's 3 frames backwards, 1 frame forwards, 1 frame backwards, 3 frames forwards. repeat. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/796437324/omgf.vbm I couldn't figure out how to land and do the pixel trick on the ground without losing any time, so i guess if you start jumping, you can't stop until the end of the level. This is probably going to make the next SML2 run much less entertaining with all the spazzing.

Measure once. Cut twice.

Posted: 9/27/2009 9:13 PM

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MUGG

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This is probably going to make the next SML2 run much less entertaining with all the spazzing.

At least it's not as bad as crouching all the time, right? :o Have you got any plans on making the next SML2 run? I will study your movie file and new find when I get more time.

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Posted: 9/28/2009 12:56 AM

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andymac

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Not really, it just seems that all my other TAS projects are simulaneously on hiatus. If you're asking about a collaboration though, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

Measure once. Cut twice.

Posted: 9/28/2009 1:44 AM

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Noob_Irdoh

Joined: 6/4/2009
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Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W

Please make this a 100% with the hidden levels. There are:

One in the space
Two in the punkimp
One in the water
One in the marco

And that one right in the first forest level when you go left.

Posted: 10/25/2009 8:25 PM

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MUGG

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That new way of performing the pixel trick now even in the air is great! Much better than the version that involves all the repeated crouching. I'd really like to do an fastest-at-all-costs run, with pixels saved wherever possible, and the pipe glitch used whenever applicable (this time under correct circumstances, i.e. with the game emulated accurately). I quickly tried the pipe glitch on a few levels and it worked in some, and it didn't in others, as I expected. Also, I investigated those glitchy tiles that can be found unterneath the levels a bit, but I couldn't find something of interest (like a tile that can send you to the ending credits). I pm'd FODA* about this, but he thinks those tiles are merely level-related and are probably not to be expected to trigger anything helpful. If someone can provide more info, I'd be glad. On another note: I found an interesting new glitch recently. Isn't a time-saver but funny anyways... ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyvkg9ZuZ2c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo8vb_kCH9A _____ * who was co-author of this glitched run. It uses the pipe glitch heavily but under illegal circumstances - the game wasn't emulated correctly. I contacted FODA since his team had to deal with those glitchy tiles as well and might know about something...

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Posted: 10/26/2009 12:48 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Does that mean you need to use revision 20 or 21? I know 21 un-fixed some of the bugs that 20 fixed.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 10/26/2009 12:51 AM

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adelikat

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You should use V21 for this run.

It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects

Posted: 10/26/2009 10:51 AM

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andymac

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heh, I've been using SVN builds because of the memory watch dialog. I have not have any inter version desynch issues though, even on hour long test videos. (i.e. they sync on both v21 and svnxxx)

Measure once. Cut twice.

Posted: 10/27/2009 3:57 PM

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MUGG

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Yeah, using VBA21 is definite. I was rather aiming at the echo ram (garbage data reachable underneath most levels) and its possibilities of accessing the ending credits or altering your savegame with it. You have direct access to the ROM's inner workings, RAM and stuff, so it should theoretically be possible, right? Just in case it turns out that there's no way for something like that to happen, I created an alternative route. Please feel free to comment on it. I've gone through it in VBA21 and it works out well. My only gripe is the backtracking to pumpkin (1) for tree (2). You need to visit the tree zone twice.

starter level tree (1) all space levels all pumpkin levels prepare pipe glitch in pumpkin (1) macro (1), access secret exit via pipe glitch macro (secret), (boss) prepare pipe glitch in pumpkin (1) mario (1), access exit via pipe glitch mario (2), (3), (boss) prepare pipe glitch in pumpkin (1) turtle (1), access exit via pipe glitch prepare pipe glitch in pumpkin (1) turtle (2), access exit via pipe glitch turtle (boss) prepare pipe glitch in pumpkin (1) tree (2), access exit via pipe glitch tree (leaf level), (boss) wario's castle

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Posted: 10/28/2009 12:27 AM

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andymac

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Have you found any bells underground? because if you have, it might be faster in some circumstances to initiate the pipe glitch in say pumpkin 1. Then fall through the floor, hit the bell, and then die in whatever level you please in order to start halfway. Also, you missed some of the levels where the pipe glitch can be used. Mario 2 is one of them. Just run to the right. Whether this is faster or not is questionable. you can use the pipe glitch on tree world 3rd level: the one on the right.

Measure once. Cut twice.

Posted: 10/28/2009 9:27 AM

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MUGG

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Also, you missed some of the levels where the pipe glitch can be used. Mario 2 is one of them. Just run to the right. Whether this is faster or not is questionable.

You need to run through the whole level underground so that would only waste time.

you can use the pipe glitch on tree world 3rd level: the one on the right.

Since the level on the left can be completed in like half a minute, it's faster to go that way instead of setting up the pipe glitch which requires the long trip to pumpkin 1. Your bell idea sounds interesting, I'll try it.

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Posted: 10/28/2009 9:58 AM

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andymac

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I think I might have this garbage blocks thing figured out. Basically it works like this: Each row of garbage blocks is a page in memory (256 bytes) and each byte represents one block. 60 is the value for nothing, and 00 is the value for a breakable block, which is the most prominent direct memory manipulation that you can do (i.e you can turn any 00 into a 60 in memory) others include collecting coins, and collecting power ups from blocks. If the block is on screen, it stays that way. if the memory address representing that block is changed, the block's visual will only change after it has gone Offscreen. the behavior of the block may still change. I cannot see what kind of memory manipulation will allow for going straight to the credit screens. SRAM starts at address 0xA000). There are two ways to get to the SRAM addresses to manipulate whatever is there. Either go downwards or upwards. Normal level data starts at 0xC000 as far as I know, and you can quickly fall to addresses 0xFE00 - 0xFEFF because everything between the active level data and the garbage is by default filled with 60's or in other words, nothing at all. This is the first bit of emptiness you fall through. the first row of garbage is 0xFE00 - 0xFEFF, the second row is 0xFF00 - 0xFFFF. By now, we have reached the end of the gameboy memory, so any further rows down are addresses 0x0000 onwards, or in other words ROM. If you try to break any blocks or anything, the game will restart because you can't overwrite ROM. If it is possible to bury yourself so deep that you reach addresses 0xA000, then you will have direct access to SRAM. Alternatively, if you can use the bubble glitch and the new out of bounds glitch that MUGG just discovered, then you might possibly be able to rise to the SRAM area, and then manipulate it. As far as I know, for pumpkin zone 1 at least, 0xB000 to 0xBFFF is filled with nothing, giving us a straight path directly to the SRAM. Also, SRAM is filled with 00's or in other words breakable blocks. This means that we can in fact manipulate the SRAM to our advantage if we can get to it. I know this is probably wishful thinking, but if this theory ends up correct, then this will be freaking awesome. EDIT: I think that there is no bell tile specifically, but it is an item. This probably means that you can't use the bell glitch described above.

Measure once. Cut twice.

Posted: 10/28/2009 2:30 PM

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MUGG

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andymac and I have confirmed that the savegames are stored at 0xA000 onwards. That's 162 rows of garbage counting from above, however, I was only able to get to row 70. It's quite a complicated maze with many dead ends! Coming from below is probably not possible. The only way would be to use the new bat+bubble glitch which, since it messes up the map loading, allows you to enter through the top of the room so you end up somehwere at 0xAED0 (pretty close to where we want to get). But you can't stay there, you get pushed back/fall through the floor again, so it's no use. Scrolling the screen with bat+bubble seems to only work downwards, towards echo ram and ROM data etc. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1208391547/mario%20land%202%20bat%2Bbubble.vbm (japanese version 1.0; VBA21) The only way to reach A000 seems to go through the 162 rows of garbage. But I'm still trying out different strategies...

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Posted: 10/29/2009 9:15 AM

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andymac

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I did manage to edit addresses AE90 to AEC2 in the SRAM, and they stayed. I'm not sure if these values have anything of use in them. I'm going to see if I can map the save file to see where any points of use are. EDIT:Just some info on movement and acceleration: here is an excerpt from the ROM that deals with Mario's speed, it is taken directly from VBA's memory viewer:

Offset(h) 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F

00001A00  FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE  ÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþ
00001A10  FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE  ÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþ
00001A20  FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE FF FE  ÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþÿþ
00001A30  FF FF FE FF FF FE FF FE FF FF FF FE FF FF FF FE  ÿÿþÿÿþÿþÿÿÿþÿÿÿþ
00001A40  FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF  ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
00001A50  FF FF 00 FF FF FF 00 FF FF 00 FF FF 00 FF 00 FF  ÿÿ.ÿÿÿ.ÿÿ.ÿÿ.ÿ.ÿ
00001A60  00 FF 00 FF 00 FF 00 FF 00 00 FF 00 00 FF 00 FF  .ÿ.ÿ.ÿ.ÿ..ÿ..ÿ.ÿ
00001A70  00 00 00 FF 00 00 00 FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  ...ÿ...ÿ........
00001A80  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01  ................
00001A90  00 00 00 01 00 00 00 01 00 00 01 00 00 01 00 01  ................
00001AA0  00 01 00 01 00 01 00 01 01 00 01 01 00 01 00 01  ................
00001AB0  01 01 00 01 01 01 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 02  ................
00001AC0  01 01 01 01 01 01 01 02 01 01 01 02 01 01 01 02  ................
00001AD0  01 01 02 01 01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02  ................
00001AE0  01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02  ................
00001AF0  01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02 01 02 01     ...............

Mario's horizontal speed is a selection of an address inside these values. The value of Mario's speed is given by the value at 0xA200 added to (or subtracted from) another number based on a universal timer (which I have yet to find an address for). Whatever number that gives is a pointer to an address whithin the 0x1A00 to 0x1AFF range. The universal timer is responsible for the 8 frame oscillation that occurs, while the value at 0xA200 is responsible for which, and what type of oscillation. EDIT: fun fact. If this part of data was situated somewhere in the RAM, it would be possible to edit these values (specifically the 0x00's to 0x60's) by crushing those particular blocks and it would be possible to move Mario at hyperspeed (96 pixels per frame). Unfortunately, this isn't part of the RAM, but the ROM, and cannot be edited.

Measure once. Cut twice.