Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I've read the actual discussion (all post from the page you linked) and I think my information is up to date.
I've reiterated the 2 major points these TASes would use and the reason they are not allowed currently according to the contents of what I linked from Movie Rules.
What are you trying to referring to?
edit: I believe there was a misunderstanding or somehow the information exchange wasn't successful.
None of the Half-Life TASes were done on an original version. Half-Life TASes uses specially crafted files from different versions to get a new game with the desired features. Imagine as a NES game but the ROM they use uses code from an Alpha version and a Beta version, creating an entirely new game that wasn't released anytime by the developers. They didn't even had this version of their own game.
Another example would be that while this is still Half-Life, multiple files have been removed, added, changed to get this package what YaLTeR develops.
- the https://forums.sourceruns.org/t/goldsrc-package-2-4/2634 page describes what files and what changes made to make this package
- https://www.speedrun.com/hl1/guide/878qr bottom video explains the main differences
- the used version for WON never had a release with console enabled without using a launching parameter or manually editing a config file (tested 1.1.0.6 WON and 1.0.1.6, GoldSrc Package 2.4 uses 1.1.0.7 WON dll but not all dll files)
I believe the first version where half-life launches with a console without modifying any files or launching parameters is after Counter-Strike 1.5 beta test. This is after 1.1.0.7 and before 1.1.2.1
The Steam version of Half-Life's changelog does not mention the console being added by default. edit2: This is mostly the developers fault. One of the update or the first release on Steam should have did it (the Counter-strike 1.5 beta test was the 5th game on Steam and the beta client already had the prototype of steam while the game was distributed through simple installers before steam was released)
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Just wanted to reiterate why all the Half-Life TASes done are not compatible with TASVideos current Movie Rules.
Please note that I'm writing these down from the top of my head, but I believe my information should be correct.
#1 - Enabling the console requires to launch the game with an additional parameter or changing one of the .cfg files that gets executed once the game launches.
It's mentioned in official docs as a non-cheat feature so it's fine.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
#2 - Manipulating FPS seems to be still not allowed
It's mentioned in official docs as a non-cheat feature so it's fine.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
Number 2 also affects TASes like Elasto Mania and any other TAS that requires manipulating the framerate to a specific value using either developer code or an external application.
Depends on what official docs say.
MESHUGGAH wrote:
None of the Half-Life TASes were done on an original version. Half-Life TASes uses specially crafted files from different versions to get a new game with the desired features. Imagine as a NES game but the ROM they use uses code from an Alpha version and a Beta version, creating an entirely new game that wasn't released anytime by the developers. They didn't even had this version of their own game.
Another example would be that while this is still Half-Life, multiple files have been removed, added, changed to get this package what YaLTeR develops.
We won't have to use those mods for a tasvideos publication. As long as a libTAS movie syncs on some official release of the game, it's acceptable.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
It's mentioned in official docs as a non-cheat feature so it's fine.
I don't know about any official docs from Valve that mentions this.
The official docs I know is...
1 - the readme.txt inside the hl.exe directory: the readme.txt mentions the following line:
SETTING UP A LISTEN SERVER IN THE LAUNCHER OR THE CONSOLE
If you are setting up your listen server variables in the launcher then all settings are stored in a file called 'game.cfg' which is located in the 'valve' directory of your installation. If you would like to modify settings at the console, you must either edit this file directly using notepad, or delete this file and modify all server settings at the console.
Note that binding the console to a key (which is tilde originally) is not enough to enable the console.
2- and the Half-Life SDK release which doesn't mentions anything about the usage of console apart from developer comments in the source code.
3 - the game manual which doesn't mentions the usage of console (I have the GOTY one)
The website you were referring to is a crowd-sourced wiki about Source and later games, not about GoldSrc games.
edit2: here is a GoldSrc relevant page from that wiki https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Command_Line_Options#Goldsource_Games <-- you will see -console under the deprecated command-line parameters.
That's why https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Developer_Console says that it's enabled by default which is not the case for the versions I tested and what files have been used in Half-Life TASes.
I have a lot of Half-Life knowledge so if you have any kind of information to prove your line that the console usage is a non-cheat feature which I don't have, I could verify it's credibility or even hunt down that particular page where this have been written down.
feos wrote:
It's mentioned in official docs as a non-cheat feature so it's fine.
Same answer as above.
feos wrote:
Depends on what official docs say.
I'm not sure what do you expect from the video game developers on having a technical note explaining how much you should manipulate their video game's framerate. I don't think this is a realistic expectation.
feos wrote:
We won't have to use those mods for a tasvideos publication. As long as a libTAS movie syncs on some official release of the game, it's acceptable.
If the Half-Life TAS projects use modified (game-changing) files, the encoder, publisher or anyone who tries to sync will need to use them.
The problem here is not the speedrun helping tools but the non-existing combination of files that doesn't derived from a single officially released version.
A simple glance at the directory of files shows that both 1.0.1.6, 1.1.0.6 and 1.1.2.2 has different files, different filesize, different directories.
Note that I'm not against this nature, I just want to point it out that as far as I see, this is not just Base game + dll injecting speedrun assisting tools but it's a Base game + different version of different files + modified game files + removed game files.
edit: A tasvideos movie rules friendly Half-Life TAS would use a version where console is enabled by default (after counter-strike 1.5 beta, before 1.1.2.1) and would spend a few time on typing out all the commands required to pull this off. This would still exclude known phenomena of manipulating FPS in RTA environments. If libTAS supports this, than probably it could be submitted.
edit3: Let me reiterate what I see in the TAS tools and what I know about Half-Life
- there is no official list of every commands possible for GoldSrc. While there is a cmdlist command, it doesn't lists every possible command.
- there is no official list of every command classified as cheat or non cheat. There are many console commands that able to change crucial values that affects the gameplay while they don't even think as a cheat. Cheating for normal half-life players would be impulse 101 and sv_cheats 1 and other. However sv_cheats only blocks a list of commands, not every possible command having an impact on gameplay giving you an advantage over others.
- The half-life release notes on Steam only goes back to 2013, where the console probably already set to enabled by default. I believe there was no CD release of Half-Life with the console enabled by default (you need to add -console to gain access to it)
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
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FWIW, Half-Life supports Linux (and therefore native libTAS) starting from the 2013 update, where the console was already enabled by default.
would spend a few time on typing out all the commands required to pull this off
Yeah, you only really need a few joystick settings (configuration files for different joysticks are present in game files, perhaps an argument could be made that you could even use a pre-made file and not type the commands) and fps_override 1 + fps_max 99999999999 to lift the FPS cap (or, if sticking to below 100 FPS, not even that is required). You also want to set mouse sensitivity but you can do that even with the GUI slider, it goes just below the minimum required value.
The problem here is not the speedrun helping tools but the non-existing combination of files that doesn't derived from a single officially released version.
The GoldSrc package was made primarily for RTA rules and provides a set of files from mixed versions along with category rules such as "you shouldn't use unlimited FPS for the WON category". For TASing you can simply use a clean Steam install.
I honestly haven't looked too much at the console documentation for older WON versions, and it's kind of orthogonal to this thread because you can't lift the FPS limit there anyway, so no console is required apart from joystick settings.
(configuration files for different joysticks are present in game files, perhaps an argument could be made that you could even use a pre-made file and not type the commands) and fps_override 1 + fps_max 99999999999 to lift the FPS cap (or, if sticking to below 100 FPS, not even that is required). You also want to set mouse sensitivity but you can do that even with the GUI slider, it goes just below the minimum required value.
At TASVideos, the rules try to protect games from arbitrary environments.
edit: elaboration after next quote
The GoldSrc package was made primarily for RTA rules and provides a set of files from mixed versions along with category rules such as "you shouldn't use unlimited FPS for the WON category". For TASing you can simply use a clean Steam install.
As long as the TAS syncs with an original, clean installation of the video game, it's OK for me (note that I'm not a judge).
I just happen to have many knowledge of Half-Life and I would like to enforce the environment to be legitimate as other TASes requires it (every console and arcade platform).
If the TAS requires more actions (editing files on storage, editing memory) than "out of the box" version (assuming you installed everything correctly according the video game's manual), I would question about how many degrees should be allowed to interfere and customize the environment.
On topic.... FPS limits...
As far as I know, DOS, Windows, Linux, Mac, J2ME, Android, etc and iOS games can be really environment dependent. This might be good for TASers but might be nightmare for judges hunting down difficult versions of required files.
It has it's own pro and contra to manipulate FPS, which might happen in real life through legitimate usage or just simply allowed to manipulate it through software but not on that performance which the TAS might be allowed to.
Imagine an old DOS game running on unlimited cpu cycle limits. You would press start and already gameover in a few seconds.
Imagine Windows games having arbitrary fps limits for different video games. Elasto Mania with specific fps, Half-Life with "maximum" but sometimes lower fps, Doom with very high fps for maximum vertical jump distance....
Imagine J2ME games either running on post Nokia 3310 and pre Motorola flipphone versus running on Nokia N-Gage (not sure if it has j2me support) or the latest Blackberry.
There are many video games, some were programmed to execute as soon as possible in order to be playable for the player on their computer. Some were programmed for 1 device but has way too many different devices to be tested or even thought about.
As a developer, developing a video game to a target platform will be playable by the number of possible configurations multiplied with the number of possible devices.
A limit should consider these already known events instead of relying on current, modern devices. They should at least try to be historical, increasing the legitimacy of playing them.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
