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Posted: 4/11/2005 2:59 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Or at least manage to pull them all off in the same run.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 4/11/2005 10:18 PM
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Sleepz
Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Well, for those of you who are still doubting starting with Fireman, I was able to defeat the 6 robots in 14:20 (27 sec faster than Omega's newest run) using the Fireman route, just played much better. I fell into the spikes in Wily 1 though, but using savestates to continue and time the Wily levels seperately, I end up with a time of 23:14. So, the new time I'm aiming for (and you guys should too) is 23:15 or less. As for the top tier route Omega, it is faster, by roughly 9 seconds. Using savestates to perform both routes to their full potentials, Fireman got 14:07 and Gutsman got 13:58. Just note that this is if you successfully perform the the wall and ladder tricks on Fireman and Elecman's stages and defeat Gutsman within 1:45. Still, 9 seconds shouldn't really make any difference over a 23 min run. I say just use whatever order is best for you, unless the times start getting so low that were competing over a second or two, then there's no choice but to use top tier. From what I've learned about everything so far, the human limit should be 22:45~22:30. If you can snatch the magnet beam using the ladder trick without Gutsman, then that might open up a new top tier route. I haven't been able to do it without leaving the wall. Bisqwit, is there a trick to that, or is it just frame by frame timing and accuracy?
Posted: 4/11/2005 10:24 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Sleepz wrote:
If you can snatch the magnet beam using the ladder trick without Gutsman, then that might open up a new top tier route. I haven't been able to do it without leaving the wall. Bisqwit, is there a trick to that, or is it just frame by frame timing and accuracy?
To do it, you need to walk away from the wall, and jump at exactly the right frame (1 frame before you are able to pick up the beam), and (as I recall,) exactly 1 frame later press left (while you're inside the floor) so that you'll zip back into the wall. (I'm not sure whether you need to press left - the mere jump might bounce you back into the wall.) So no, I don't think I'm going to see anyone doing it in a speedrun.
Posted: 4/12/2005 6:06 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Posts: 5712
Yeah, I've had enough trouble just getting TO the Magnet Beam using the wall warp. Once I get in the wall edges, I can only jump when I'm on the left side. But one jump isn't enough to reach the level of the Magnet Beam alcove, so I have to get caught on the right side in the middle of a jump, then somehow get another jump off that by jumping at the same time as I wrap back around to the left, and if that works, I have to push back to the other side at the right time to end up where I can grab the Magnet Beam. So I don't feel like trying that trick again. But I've been considering starting with BombMan again...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 4/12/2005 8:20 AM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Could you post those two runs you made using save states? I'd like to take a look at how you played them. :) You're most definitely gonna improve my time now, so I might as well try to keep up...
Posted: 4/13/2005 9:36 PM
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Vatchern
Player (84)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Anyone wanna try a "NO GLITCH-NO TOOLS" run? i tried one... Very bad. 45:40.. thats sad. but i can do better. I continued 4 times. u guys should try it.
http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html
Posted: 4/14/2005 3:10 PM
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Vatchern
Player (84)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Ok, I done a second run then! I got 36:50. alot better from my first one.
http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html
Posted: 4/14/2005 4:19 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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I might consider it, if I have some free time again.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 4/14/2005 10:44 PM
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Sleepz
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Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Things have gotten busy again and I don’t have a lot of free time anymore. Plus, I’d like to use the free time I do have for finishing my time attack, so I have to hold off the MM speed runs until then. I did do more tests though, and my conclusion is that Bisqwit’s order is the top tier run. The savestate Elecman run was 13:48, which is at least 11 seconds faster than Gutsman. It also does Elecman first, which is my weakest level in the game. So if you want the best times, practice your runs using Bisqwit’s order. Btw, here’s how to get the magnet beam out. 1. Do the ladder glitch. 2. Once you are on the left side, do a full jump. At the very height of your jump, press right. It should put you on level with the magnet beam. (If it didn’t work, then it wasn’t the height of your jump.) 3. Now tap right then left quickly (or hold right+left, release right, is easier). This allows you to face left without activating the wall glitch. 4. Keep moving slowly to the left, making sure that you are still partially in the wall, until you grab the magnet beam. Then, do a jump to activate the wall glitch and fall back to the bottom of the screen. 5. Tap right then left quickly (or hold right+left, release right) to leave the wall. If you practice it a bit, you will be able to do the whole thing smoothly like in the recording. http://members.shaw.ca/richu/rockmanELEC.zip
Posted: 4/14/2005 10:46 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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I have to beat Electric Man with the Pea Shooter? OHHHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOO count me out I hate this game now
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 4/14/2005 10:54 PM
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Sleepz
Former player
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Yeah, that's the downside to the order. It also makes the other levels harder because of more magnet beam use. It's still faster overall. You can get sub-23 if you really try.
Posted: 4/15/2005 8:16 AM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Again, can I ask for those test runs with save states you mentioned earlier? I'm definitely gonna try the Elec Man trick, but since it seems to be really, really difficult to pull off without save states, I want to try and improve this tier first. So I'd like to see what cool tricks you used since my run was pretty straightforward.
Posted: 4/16/2005 12:33 AM
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Sleepz
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Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
I recorded Gutsman run over the Fireman run. If you want to see the Fireman run, you can just recreate it yourself. http://members.shaw.ca/richu/rockmanGUTSMAN.zip
Posted: 4/16/2005 12:36 PM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Sleepz wrote:
I recorded Gutsman run over the Fireman run. If you want to see the Fireman run, you can just recreate it yourself. http://members.shaw.ca/richu/rockmanGUTSMAN.zip
I just watched it. Didn't see as many up+down tricks as I had hoped. I think it's possible to put one up+down trick in Fire Man's level, at the point where you use the magnet beam to pass those flames which are normally impossible to avoid. EDIT: yes, it's possible. Up+down at the first ladder, make a full length jump, then apparently you need to tap left+right to get out of the wall. Difficult to do, and I'm not sure if it'll save that much time over using a magnet beam. You'll probably lose more time trying to get the trick done right, so I don't think it should be used.
Posted: 4/16/2005 12:52 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
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Sleepz wrote:
http://members.shaw.ca/richu/rockmanGUTSMAN.zip
The file header says 437 rerecords. Why?
Posted: 4/16/2005 12:54 PM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Bisqwit wrote:
Sleepz wrote:
http://members.shaw.ca/richu/rockmanGUTSMAN.zip
The file header says 437 rerecords. Why?
He made that run with save states in order to find out their maximum potential.
Posted: 4/16/2005 1:00 PM
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Vatchern
Player (84)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Im doing a Potental Twin Galaxies run.(No glitch). After the gutsman stage, im 2 seconds ahead of MoriMoto's movie.
http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html
Posted: 4/16/2005 2:02 PM
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Vatchern
Player (84)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Ok. I went G-E-C and finished 10 seconds behind Morimoto when i clicked on the iceman stage. I went G-C-E and finished 1 second quicker then Morimoto. So.. I lost 1 second due to him using glitches. Not bad. Im on to Iceman soon.
http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html
Posted: 4/16/2005 2:21 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
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Location: Arzareth
Vatchern, 16:00:34 wrote:
Im doing a Potental Twin Galaxies run.(No glitch). After the gutsman stage, im 2 seconds ahead of MoriMoto's movie.
Vatchern, 17:02:52 wrote:
So.. I lost 1 second due to him using glitches. Not bad. Im on to Iceman soon.
Does Twin Galaxies allow pausing (that doesn't account to playing time)?
Posted: 4/16/2005 2:28 PM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Pausing is not allowed according to Twin Galaxies' rules. I found out that grabbing the magnet beam without Guts Man's weapon is possible in real time. I did it, though I had to use some rerecords. Just get into the wall, make a full jump and then find some way to tiptoe towards the magnet beam to grab it while still being in the wall. Then jumping and pressing left (I think) will unstuck you on the other side. Thus, it's possible to do it this way if you have a little patience... I expect the trick to go right once every 20 tries, or something like that. EDIT: I did a few test runs today. I found a new (?) trick; namely pressing jump and then pressing select a split second afterwards--this will shoot you in the air while being in the phasing animation, allowing you to pass through obstacles without getting hit. I was able to zip myself through some electric beams in Elec Man's level this way, as it's very easy to do even without save states. Also, I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to avoid getting hit by that last flying bomb in Fire Man's level. I saw Sleepz play around with interrupting his walking for a split second, but I haven't quite figured it out. All I know is that once a flying bomb is off-screen, a new one will be spawned. Technically, you could wait a split second to make the last flying bomb spawn a little later, causing it to be someplace else than the ground sensor enemy thing, in its turn making it possible to pass that place without getting hit. But I'm not sure if it's possible for human players to perceive the need for such actions.
Posted: 4/16/2005 4:39 PM
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Vatchern
Player (84)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Yes Omega, I use the jump trick for when i have to change weapons. I wait for a spot to jump and do it there. saves a little time. though i dont use it as a glitch.
http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html
Posted: 4/18/2005 10:57 PM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Bar raised again. I finished it in 23:52 this time with Bisqwit's route. :) I'm not posting the movie file, though, because I'm going to be improving it over the next week or so. I still feel this run is too sloppy to be considered "final". I'm almost starting to like this game more than Rockman 2, by the way...
Posted: 4/18/2005 11:17 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Yeah, this game is probably tied for my favorite with MegaRockMan 6.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 4/19/2005 1:12 AM
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Vatchern
Player (84)
Joined: 3/8/2005
Posts: 973
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
I finished a "Non Glitch" Time attack. I think its perfect at 23:50. I take No hits. I might try one later to see if taking hits will speed it up in any way. I think there should be a "Non glitch" or even a " Speed run" section on the site, especially speed runs showing skill of some of the users at this forum. Anyway, Nice work on the 23:52 Omega. How fast can you complete Rockman 2? My favorites are Rockman and Megaman 3. EDIT: It was actually 23:30. My glitchless run was 23:30. My Mistake.
http://tasvideos.org/Vatchern.html
Posted: 4/19/2005 10:57 AM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Vatchern wrote:
Anyway, Nice work on the 23:52 Omega. How fast can you complete Rockman 2? My favorites are Rockman and Megaman 3.
I once did a segmented speedrun on Rockman 2, but the completion time is garbled because I cut out the parts where I choose the bosses and the new weapon screens because at that time, I thought of them as too boring. I should remaster that old run sometime. Or release the segmented parts. That's actually a better idea, I think.
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