Topic by MUGG

Posted: 7/11/2007 9:50 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2315)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany

Kirby Amazing Mirror (TAS) any% 0:30:08 Part.1 At 4:38 it wasn't possible to kill all those enemies with two hits in (U).

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Posted: 7/12/2007 12:17 AM

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emu

Active player (380)

Joined: 1/2/2007
Posts: 188
Location: Germany, Munich

Generally the movie looked well played to me. There were only some rare occasions, which I didn't understand yet: 1. Sometimes, Kirby is right in the middle of a door, when he enters it. Could the rocket/wheel animation be cancelled earlier? 2. Does horizontal/vertical velocity decrease, when the rocket flies diagonal and is the handling that bad? It sometimes looked, as if Kirby could have flown nearer to the corners. However, I never played this game, so I'm the wrong one to judge this. The rest looked well executed and entertaining. PS: Thanks for providing an already encoded video

Posted: 7/12/2007 11:56 AM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2315)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany

If you mean LuckyStar's TAS, it can be improved by about 3 minutes or even more. 1. Yes. Actually, everything in the Youtube TAS is quite unoptimized! And the strategy it uses can be improved. 2. Yes. Everything is unoptimized.

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Posted: 8/4/2007 11:55 AM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2315)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany

There were some conversations on IRC and I need to know whether this rom file is hacked: EUR-KIRH.GBA , the zip file was called: (*cencored*[1].com)1454 - Hoshi no Kirby Kagami no Daimeikyuu (J)(Eurasia) I can also provide a movie file: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/122386759/TAS%20KAM_.vbm As far as I know, Truncated wanted to do this.. E: No demand anymore, thanks Truncated.

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Posted: 8/31/2007 8:32 PM
(Edited: 9/18/2007 6:53 PM)

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2315)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany

(I don't like to write every other post in a thread so I'll sum things up here) This was what I discovered a couple of days ago: Example Here are some .vbm-s which show different events. All of these events are results of what happens when Kirby uses his Magic ability.

(Used ROM: 1454 - Hoshi no Kirby Kagami no Daimeikyuu (J)(v1.1) It can be done on any version.) Sir VG however found out that this event happens because of a buddy Kirby using his Magic ability. After all, this cannot be abused really. When someone wants to improve the current run, I recommend watching the Kirby icons on the top left.

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Posted: 9/1/2007 11:58 PM
(Edited: 9/23/2009 12:20 PM)

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gocha

Any

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 6/21/2006
Posts: 401
Location: Japan, Nagoya

I think you should upload the vbm. Edit my old old watch:

21
00000	02020F20	d	h	0	X Position #1
00001	02020F24	d	h	0	Y Position #1
00002	02020F30	w	s	0	X Speed #1
00003	02020F32	w	s	0	Y Speed #2
00004	020210C8	d	h	0	X Position #2
00005	020210CC	d	h	0	Y Position #2
00006	02021270	d	h	0	X Position #3
00007	02021274	d	h	0	Y Position #3
00008	02021270	d	h	0	X Position #3
00009	02021274	d	h	0	Y Position #3
0000A	02021418	d	h	0	X Position #4
0000B	0202141C	d	h	0	Y Position #4
0000C	02020FE2	b	u	0	Player
0000D	02020FE0	b	u	0	Health
0000E	02020FE3	b	u	0	Ability
0000F	020210D6	b	u	0	Invincible #1
00010	02020F3C	b	u	0	Invincible #6
00011	02020FF8	w	h	0	Input #1
00012	020211A0	w	h	0	Input #2
00013	02021348	w	h	0	Input #3
00014	020214F0	w	h	0	Input #4

I am usually available on Discord server or Twitter.

Posted: 9/5/2007 5:40 PM
(Edited: 9/18/2007 6:53 PM)

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2315)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany

[can be deleted]

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Posted: 9/6/2007 4:59 AM

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Sir_VG

He/Him

Player (39)

Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1911
Location: Floating Tower

That's fully intentional and part of the ability.

Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing

Posted: 2/21/2008 10:37 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2315)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany

I once started making an improvement to my Kirby Amazing Mirror run. To cut a long story short, here are two versions: (1.7.2 Rerecording v19.3 ; Japanese ROM version) http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1201756072/TASKAM-MUGG2.vbm This was the first improvement version. It is about 5 seconds ahead of the currently published run. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1598506337/MUGG-KAM%20v3.vbm Some time after, Comicalflop and I had a talk on IRC concerning the basic ground movement strategies (and came to the conclusion that jumping all the time / avoiding the floor is faster than sliding). This second version is about 30 frames ahead of the first version. I won't continue working on this project until I finish Kirby Super Star, and even then I don't know whether there's enough motivation.I'm posting these versions for everyone interested or those who plan to obsolete my run.

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Posted: 2/22/2008 4:23 AM
(Edited: 12/4/2008 7:23 PM)

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Floogal

Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 127

All damage values are for each hit; most attacks can hit multiple times. For multiple enemy weaknesses and resistences, combine them together. A resistence can't lower an attack's damage below 1. Contact - 1 (no candy, bosses are immune), 7 (candy) Air Pellet - 2 (bosses are immune) Slide - 2 (bosses are immune, except for Fighter, Sword, and Master -- see those entries) Dive - 2 (bosses are immune) Water Spout - 2 Beam - 3 Bomb - 5 (bomb), 1 (explosion) Burning - 2 Crash - 29 Cupid - single arrow - 3 - multi-arrow - 3-5 per arrow (depends on charge time) Cutter - 4 Fighter - standing combo - 1 (punches), 2 (kick), 1 (down-punch) - fireball - 2 (small), 4 (large), 6 (when Kirby has 1 vitality) - tornado kick - 2 - dashing kick - 3 - uppercut - 1 (startup), 2 (flame punch) - air-down-kick - 4 - slide - 3 Fire - 5 Hammer - ground/midair swing - 5 - dash - 2 - fire uppercut - 2 (charge), 25 (swing) Ice - breath - 4 - block - 9-12 (depends on what's frozen) Laser - 2 Magic - 22 (Meta Knight) Master - ground combo - 8 (single), 1 (multi) - charge blast - 8 (energy), 3 (sword) - midair spin - 4 - dashing twirl - 3 - up stab - 8 - down pound - 4 - slide - 2 - final cutter - 2 (up), 6 (down), 2 (energy wave) Missile *** strength depends on game version *** - Japanese version - 6 (direct hit), 2 (explosion, indirect hit) - English version - 4 (direct hit), 1 (explosion, indirect hit) Normal - single star - 10 - multi-star - 25 Parasol - contact - 4 - swing - 4 - drill - 4 or 1 (latter is more common) Smash - punch - 1 - midair spin - 2 - hammer - 10 (ground), 9 (midair) - stone - 10 - final cutter - 2 (up), 6 (down), 2 (energy wave) Spark - 3 Stone - transform/drop - 10 - roll/clouds - 4 Sword - ground swing - 6 - rapid combo - 1 - midair spin - 2 - final cutter - 2 (up), 6 (down), 2 (energy wave) - slide - 4 Throw - 12 Tornado - 2 UFO - beam - 4 - small laser - 4 - medium laser - 10 - large laser - 18 Wheel - 2 Elements: 1) Heat -- Burning, Fire, Hammer (uppercut), Master (excluding final cutter wave), Laser, UFO (lasers), Bomb 2) Sharp -- Cutter, Cupid, Sword (excluding final cutter wave), Smash (final cutter, excluding wave) 3) Zap -- Beam, Spark, UFO (beam) 4) Plain -- Normal, Fighter, Throw, Tornado, Parasol, Missile, Ice (block), Wheel, Stone, Smash (stone, hammer, fighting, final cutter wave), Hammer (except fire uppercut), Sword (final cutter wave), Master (final cutter wave) 5) Cool -- Ice (breath) 6) Strong -- UFO (largest laser), Burning, Hammer (uppercut), Master (excluding final cutter wave) 7) Stab -- Sword (slide), Master (slide) Miniboss corpse - 12 HP (immune until hitting the ground) Mr. Flosty - 30 HP - weakness: Zap (+1), Heat (+3) - resistence: Cool (-3) Bonkers - 40 HP - resistence: Zap (-1), Heat (-1), Cool (-1), Sharp (-1) Phan Phan - 30 HP - resistence: Zap (-1), Heat (-1), Cool (-1), Sharp (-2) Bombar - 40 HP Box Boxer - 40 HP - resistence: Plain (-1) Batafire - 30 HP - weakness: Cool (+4) - resistence: Zap (-1), Heat (-3), Sharp (-1) Boxy - 40 HP - resistence: Heat (-2) Master Hand - 40 HP - weakness: Plain (+1), Strong (+1), Heat (+1), Cool (+1), Stab (+1) Waddle Dee (arena) - 30 HP King Golem - 60 HP - resistence: Zap (-2), Heat (-1), Sharp (-2) Moley - 80 HP - weakness: Heat (+1) - resistence: Zap (-2), Cool (-1) Kracko - 60 HP - resistence: Zap (-2), Sharp (-2) Mega Titan - 40 HP - note: touching electric wall does 10 damage - weakness: Zap (+2) - immune: everything else Titan Head - 20 HP Gobbler - 60 HP - weakness: Zap (+2), Sharp (+2) Mini-gobblers - 7 HP underwater, 1 HP above water ** Master's Heat element attacks are treated as Sharp element during this fight Wiz - 80 HP - resistence: Zap (-1), Heat (-1), Cool (-1), Sharp (-1) ? ? ? - 60 HP Master Hand - 60 HP - weakness: Cool (+3), Plain (+2), Strong (+2), Stab (+2) - resistence: Heat (-1) ** Master's multi-hit ground attack does 3 damage per hit -- resistence applied before weakness Crazy Hand - 40 HP - weakness: Heat (+3), Plain (+2), Strong (+2), Stab (+2) - resistence: Cool (-1) Dark Meta Knight - 48 HP Dark Mind (wizard) - 32 HP (1st fight), 40 HP (2nd & 3rd fight), 56 HP (4th fight & arena) cape closed: - resistence: Crash (-28), everything else (-8) cape open: - resistence: Crash (-10) Disco Ball - 10 HP Dark Mind (final) - 96 HP (all parts share HP) eye: - resistence: everything except Crash (-5) - immune: Crash attacking mirrors: (break after mirrors take at least 10 combined damage) - resistence: Crash (-7) diagonal/retreating mirrors: - resistence: Crash (-7), everything else (-3) Dark Mind (shooter) - 250 HP - each hit does 10 damage

Posted: 2/22/2008 11:52 AM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

MUGG wrote:

Some time after, Comicalflop and I had a talk on IRC concerning the basic ground movement strategies (and came to the conclusion that jumping all the time / avoiding the floor is faster than sliding).

I was under the impression that we couldn't find anything faster than sliding?

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Posted: 2/22/2008 1:31 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2315)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany

[>_> deleted my large post by accident. I'll sum up] As far as I can remember, you suspected exhaling puffes of air gives you a momentum boost. It was, however, slower. While I was at it I ran some more testings and soon found out sliding wasn't that much faster than running (- then again jumping is faster than running...) In fact, when I saw Zefiris way of moving, I ran a few tests and kept it in without further thoughts. So sliding is only faster if it gets cancelled by a ledge. Btw, I'll probably post a list with possible improvements soon. (maybe) @ Floogal: Since it is the American version your list is based on it's rather useless since you can deal more damage on the [J] version. Thanks though.

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Posted: 3/23/2008 8:36 PM

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girfanatic501

Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 236
Location: Somewhere

This is "Area 0" of the All Tresures/Rooms Visited run I'm currently working on.

See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.

Posted: 3/23/2008 11:19 PM
(Edited: 3/24/2008 12:01 AM)

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2315)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany

1. You should take a look at the new WIPs I posted. Keep your WIPs in high quality technical-wise and verify that your run is faster or equal to the newest WIPs or the current run. (Yes, that means comparing all the room times and improving. That's also why I hate to improve the current run >_>) 2. More specific: You'll have to jump all the time since this preserves the most momentum. At edges slide (down + A) so that Kirby drops off the platform just before he was about to move slower in his slide. 3. You didn't use the two enemies in the 3rd room in order to get wheel. Take a look at the newer WIPs. You may just take the newest WIP and continue from a spot before the first treasure. Btw, I have some walkthroughs if you're interested (though they're kinda mixed or loose.)

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Posted: 3/23/2008 11:26 PM

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girfanatic501

Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 236
Location: Somewhere

I know, but I need Burning for grey blocks later in Moonlight Mansion. Speaking of which, I could get missile at the end of the first path in Rainbow Route, so nevermind :P. Will work at it. EDIT: Nevermind. Got everything back after random hardrive incident. E2: Don't belive the re-record count. It is supposed to say 267. E3: Watch this instead :P.

See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.

Posted: 3/28/2008 12:14 AM

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girfanatic501

Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 236
Location: Somewhere

Important question, if this is going to get all treasures, then should I get Smash from the start so everything is there? Grey block buster, string cutter, Easy killer..... other stuff.

See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.

Posted: 3/28/2008 1:12 AM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2315)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany

You'll need to create a walkthrough. I made a map (it's not complete yet) and marked where there are 2 enemies that can be mixed, where there are grey blocks, where there are treasures... Since it's a maze after all you'll need to approach the project like this first. Also, there are some shortcuts or warpstars spread throughout the maze, so pay attention to them. Btw, it may be better you look for some easier TAS project first to gain experience from.

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Posted: 3/28/2008 1:25 AM

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girfanatic501

Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 236
Location: Somewhere

I'm holding back on the WIP's for now, but here's one Smash test run that is did. Sad thing is I could not manipulate when Smash would appear, early or late. I'm planning out maps and I have to figure out if there's a way to upload the map when it's done, as it may be VERY BIG.

See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.

Posted: 3/28/2008 4:45 AM

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Sir_VG

He/Him

Player (39)

Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1911
Location: Floating Tower

Problem is, Smash doesn't open up everything. For instance, there's a room in Area 9 that you need to bounce laser off the angled walls to get that small chest. That's just one example I can think off off of the top of my head. I'm fairly certain that you wouldn't be able to pull it off with Up+B (Sword) but who knows. At the same time, Smash only would be slow. Most often the special ability you need is right in the room (or in a room directly around) the room you need that ability in. I find using Smash for the entire game a waste. Because of that, I was able to beat the speed run by about a minute. It's a bit sketchy, but here's a good route that I used in practice sessions for 1P 100% runs Download word document here.

Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing

Posted: 3/28/2008 4:59 AM

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Floogal

Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 127

Just some things that might interest you all: - If Kirby's slide ends on a steep downward slope, he'll start rolling which can be immediately cancelled by jumping. Just another way to sneak some extra slides in there. - At one point in the run, you need to call your helper kirbys to inhale a large grey block -- or do you? In Mustard Mountain, there are 2 large grey blocks that can be knocked into the flow of a lava wall by repeatedly hitting the ground with Stone/Hammer -- does this work on the third grey block that impedes access to a treasure chest? - Apparently, if one of the helpers is somewhere else and has the Magic ability, and your Kirby has no ability, it might randomly give YOUR kirby the mix. Perhaps you could luck-abuse this to seemingly get whatever power you need out of the blue?

Posted: 3/28/2008 5:47 AM

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Sir_VG

He/Him

Player (39)

Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1911
Location: Floating Tower

Floogal wrote:

- Apparently, if one of the helpers is somewhere else and has the Magic ability, and your Kirby has no ability, it might randomly give YOUR kirby the mix. Perhaps you could luck-abuse this to seemingly get whatever power you need out of the blue?

Actually, I think it gives EVERYBODY mix (I'd have to check my speedrun video, since I did have that situation arise). But whether or not you'll get this is really random. Frankly, I think it's a waste of time. Everybody getting invincibility is better.

Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing

Posted: 3/28/2008 11:16 AM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2315)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3856
Location: Germany

- Apparently, if one of the helpers is somewhere else and has the Magic ability, and your Kirby has no ability, it might randomly give YOUR kirby the mix. Perhaps you could luck-abuse this to seemingly get whatever power you need out of the blue?

Like this? http://youtube.com/watch?v=-z3xpfASqqY It'd be cool to know what mechanisms make that happen (buddy Kirby gets magic, gives everyone mix) so that one can luck-manipulate it. I myself can't, I suck at memory watching...

- At one point in the run, you need to call your helper kirbys to inhale a large grey block -- or do you? In Mustard Mountain, there are 2 large grey blocks that can be knocked into the flow of a lava wall by repeatedly hitting the ground with Stone/Hammer -- does this work on the third grey block that impedes access to a treasure chest?

Does work with sword and Burning into the wall as well. But the grey block will afaik ALWAYS go to the left.

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Posted: 3/28/2008 12:36 PM

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girfanatic501

Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 236
Location: Somewhere

Ugh... We might have a problem a little bit into Moonlight Mansion. (using Sir VG's route) We will have to ditch Wheel for Missile in room 5 of Rainbow Route in order to break blocks in room 2 after Mr. Frosty. Whell will have to be ditched for Missile

See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.

Posted: 3/28/2008 3:05 PM

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Sir_VG

He/Him

Player (39)

Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1911
Location: Floating Tower

Well, my route is just a suggestion, from a speedrunning POV. I'd normally have fireball there anyways, which is why I take the route I do. Plus wheel would be pathetic for that section anyways. Missile would be awesome.

Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing

Posted: 3/28/2008 5:10 PM

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Pekopon

Former player

Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 330
Location: B.C Canada

Sir VG wrote:

Well, my route is just a suggestion, from a speedrunning POV. I'd normally have fireball there anyways, which is why I take the route I do. Plus wheel would be pathetic for that section anyways. Missile would be awesome.

I like how you use the original term "Fireball", since I always say that too.

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