Submission Text Full Submission Page

Emulator Version:

BizHawk V. 2.3.1

Programming Errors:

When Wile E. Coyote gets far enough behind you that he is offscreen, he will put on roller skates and move much faster to try to catch you. At certain points, I would have been caught before I could stop the coyote. To prevent this, I moved forward for 5 frames, paused for 1 frame when the Coyote went off screen, and then kept repeating this as needed. This tactic of scrolling the coyote enabled me to get just enough distance between me and the coyote for me to complete my escape. An example of this can be seen at 5:14 in the encode linked below.

Hits/Deaths:

In this game you lose a life whenever you hit an obstacle (such as a landmine, a truck, or a cliff) or get caught by the coyote. When you get caught by the coyote, he spends a few frames sliding in front of you before he begins his animation of carrying you off the screen, at which point you lose a life. However, Wile E. Coyote is still vulnerable to being hit by obstacles when he is in the middle of his animation sliding forward when he has just grabbed you and picked you up. At several points in the run, I make use of this tactic to escape from Wile E.'s clutches. As such, there are no deaths in this run, though I do get "hit" by the coyote at a few points. For an example of this, see 4:29 in the encode below.

Goals:

The goal of this TAS was to beat all 8 levels of the game as fast as possible

Game Description:

Released in 1989, this is one of the last officially licensed Atari 2600 games that Atari released. In the scorching desert of Arizona, you play as a Road Runner, chased by your eternal nemesis Wile E. Coyote. Wile E. is a very crafty coyote. He has planted landmines throughout the road you are on in an effort to catch you, and also has guns placed throughout portions of the road to try to hit you. Additionally, he has roller skates and rockets he can use to try to catch up to you if you start to get away from him. As if this wasn't bad enough, there are also trucks, cliffs, and falling boulders that you must dodge as well. While it may seem as though things are stacked in the coyote's favor, don't despair! The same obstacles that can hurt you can also hurt the coyote. Wile E. can be blown up by his own landmines, or hit by a truck in the midst of his relentless pursuit to catch you. However, if you want to have any hope of surviving this predator, you'll have to go fast!!!!!

TASing Process:

In this game, you move the fastest when you are moving left or jumping left, both of which are the same speed. You lose time if you stop moving, if you move to the right, or if you move up or down to switch which lane of the road you are on or how high up you are on the ledge in levels that take place outside the road. Wile E. will move slowly behind you until you get far enough ahead that he is scrolled off the screen. Then, he will charge forwards using roller skates to try to catch you. To stop his charge, you can eat bird seed that is scattered throughout the road, or you can lure Wile E. into running into an obstacle, since he always stays on the same horizontal line as you. If you don't have any obstacles ahead to stop him, you can move until Wile goes off screen, pause for a frame, then move forward for 5 frames, and then repeat, until you are close enough to an obstacle to lure him into it. Wile E. will only go on his roller skates if you move left while he is off screen, so doing this allows you to move forward a little further before he begins his charge. Below is a summary of the process of making each of the 8 levels.
Level 1:
This level is pretty straightforward. Just run to the left and jump over the occasional truck that appears. Wile will be unable to catch up to you as long as you keep running.
Level 2:
Like level 1, this level is also straightforward. All you need to do is run left and jump over any cliffs in front of you. Wile E. will get closer to you than he did in level 1, but if you don't stop running, he still can't catch you.
Level 3:
This is the first level where Wile E. Coyote can use roller skates to quickly catch up to you, so from here on out, you have to be crafty to avoid being eaten. 5 times during the level, I move up or down to either eat bird seed or lure Wile E. into an obstacle. In each case, I move the minimum amount up or down that I need to to stop Wile E, and I do this as few times as possible in the level.
Level 4:
In this level, Wile E.'s guns fire at you at specific points on the road. As long as you jump while the bullet is passing through you, then you won't be hit. Wile E. also occasionally moves towards you in a rocket ship, where if he touches you, he captures you. However, you can avoid his ship each time it appears by moving either up or down for 3 frames to get out of his ship's way.
Level 5:
Due to the large amount of bird seed scattered throughout this level, I am able to stop Wile E. Coyote dead in his tracks without having to move very much, making this a relatively easy level.
Level 6:
This is the level where you have to dodge falling rocks. Although you can't cross the path when there are rocks blocking it, Wile E. is free to keep chasing you while you are waiting. Fortunately, I take advantage of the fact that Wile E. moves in front of you when he captures you to lure him into the rocks. By getting right next to the rocks before Wile E. grabs me, I am able to cause him to get hit by a rock and crushed before he can carry me off, which simultaneously removes the threat of being captured by Wile and the need to slow down to avoid being caught by Wile E. all at once. I am also able to save time by jumping over the rocks as they are falling on the first frame that I can clear the rocks without being hit by them.
Level 7:
This level is pretty similar to level 5. You just need to keep running and hitting the occasional bird seed/luring Wile E. into the occasional obstacle to keep going without slowing down.
Level 8:
This level follows a similar format to level 4, with Wile E.'s guns trying to mow you down and Wile E. trying to collect you with his rocket ship. After avoiding all of these obstacles and making it to the end of the level, you have beaten the game!
This game makes for an entertaining TAS, as the quick thinking strategies that the TAS uses to escape Wile E. greatly resemble what the actual cartoon looks like (albeit with Atari 2600 graphics). This has the effect of making the TAS seem almost like a movie showing the TV show, which is an effect which is aided by the animations of Wile E. being blown up and flattened by obstacles, and by the Acme signs scattered throughout the game.
I think that this will make a good addition to TASVideo's collection of movies, and I hope you enjoy watching it!


TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6390: Lobsterzelda's A2600 Road Runner in 06:47.17
Lobsterzelda
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Whoops. I accidentally uploaded the version of my TAS that I used to make my encode, which has blank frames at the end. I've uploaded the correct version of this TAS to userfiles here http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/55272429385645741 . If a judge could replace my submission with this movie (which has trailing blank frames removed), I would greatly appreciate it.
Spikestuff
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>Literal Auto Scroller >Doesn't Put Effort in grabbing the (Free) Bird Seeds. This TAS has so much down time, almost 6 minutes and 45 seconds (yes) and you did nothing with it. I'm voting No, even if there was effort to actually grab Bird Seeds, that'd at least change my vote from No to Meh. The input shown is something so basic that a casual player can do it, go for the Jazz of grabbing those Bird Seeds. Edit: Also here's better ending input that incorporates jumping at the end to save more frames than what the author provided. (Sub: 149 frames | Userfile: 28 frames)
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Lobsterzelda
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Spikestuff wrote:
>Literal Auto Scroller >Doesn't Put Effort in grabbing the (Free) Bird Seeds. This TAS has so much down time, almost 6 minutes and 45 seconds (yes) and you did nothing with it. I'm voting No, even if there was effort to actually grab Bird Seeds, that'd at least change my vote from No to Meh. The input shown is something so basic that a casual player can do it, go for the Jazz of grabbing those Bird Seeds. Edit: Also here's better ending input that incorporates jumping at the end to save more frames than what the author provided. (Sub: 149 frames | Userfile: 28 frames)
This isn't an autoscroller. The screen doesn't move until you reach the left end of it. It only looks like an autoscroller because I never stop moving. Also, grabbing the bird seeds would slow me down because I would have to move up or down to grab them, which is why I don't bother to grab them. This game is not at all easy to run for a casual player. In fact, it's one of the harder games on the Atari 2600. It only looks easy here because of the fact that this is a TAS. If you believe that this TAS is something that a casual player can easily do, then I implore you to try beating this game in under 7 minutes (or even under 7 and a half minutes for more leeway) and see how that goes.
Spikestuff
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Lobsterzelda wrote:
Also, grabbing the bird seeds would slow me down because I would have to move up or down to grab them, which is why I don't bother to grab them.
I'll let you on this little secret. I wouldn't write something unless I attempted it myself. I exited the first level the same time you did, whilst going for bird seeds.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
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Lobsterzelda
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Spikestuff wrote:
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Also, grabbing the bird seeds would slow me down because I would have to move up or down to grab them, which is why I don't bother to grab them.
I'll let you on this little secret. I wouldn't write something unless I attempted it myself. I exited the first level the same time you did, whilst going for bird seeds.
I suppose that depends how out of the way you are going for each bird seed. Regardless, you wouldn't have enjoyed this TAS even if I collected all of the bird seeds in the game, so why do you care?
Spikestuff
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Ok if you're going to play like that. Level 1 - Just tap up left for 2 frames to avoid all traffic. Level 2 - Play as normally, jump when needed. Level 3 - Avoid Traffic as the norm and direct Wile E. Coyote into the mines/traffic. (btw you show the line to take) Level 4 - Jump over instances of Bombs and Bullets. Direct Wile into them. Level 5 - Copy and Pastes Level 3 Level 6 - Take your time, back up a bit... also your input is slow here. <3 -- Distance yourself correctly from the boulders that impede your path and get the optimal movement to not stand there for too long. Level 7 - Copy and Pastes Level 3 Level 8 - Copy and Pastes Level 4 Very simple stuff for a speedrun, and RTA. And thank you for telling me to go over the input and checking it myself, it was great to find out that your input is suboptimal on something that's basic for a TAS level. Really, thanks for that. Here's what it looks like (Left is adjusted, Right is you): (Focus on the mountains in the back for position location, if you can't spot it I have uploaded the higher rate version, as the gif above is half the rate.) Or do you want me to push further and go through every, single, boulder, you stopped for and see how many frames were wasted? After all there's only 8 times you do this, and the one in the gif is the first one.
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Why do you care?
Spikestuff wrote:
The input shown is something so basic that a casual player can do it, go for the Jazz of grabbing those Bird Seeds.
You asked for enjoyment in your submission text, I told you why it's not enjoyable and the chance for a little spice up, a little zest, but you pushed. Have a nice day~ ❤.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
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Lobsterzelda
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Spikestuff wrote:
Ok if you're going to play like that. Level 1 - Just tap up left for 2 frames to avoid all traffic. Level 2 - Play as normally, jump when needed. Level 3 - Avoid Traffic as the norm and direct Wile E. Coyote into the mines/traffic. (btw you show the line to take) Level 4 - Jump over instances of Bombs and Bullets. Direct Wile into them. Level 5 - Copy and Pastes Level 3 Level 6 - Take your time, back up a bit... also your input is slow here. <3 -- Distance yourself correctly from the boulders that impede your path and get the optimal movement to not stand there for too long. Level 7 - Copy and Pastes Level 3 Level 8 - Copy and Pastes Level 4 Very simple stuff for a speedrun, and RTA. And thank you for telling me to go over the input and checking it myself, it was great to find out that your input is suboptimal on something that's basic for a TAS level. Really, thanks for that. Here's what it looks like (Left is adjusted, Right is you): (Focus on the mountains in the back for position location, if you can't spot it I have uploaded the higher rate version, as the gif above is half the rate.) Or do you want me to push further and go through every, single, boulder, you stopped for and see how many frames were wasted?
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Why do you care?
Spikestuff wrote:
The input shown is something so basic that a casual player can do it, go for the Jazz of grabbing those Bird Seeds.
You asked for enjoyment in your submission text, I told you why it's not enjoyable and the chance for a little spice up, a little zest, but you pushed. Have a nice day~ ❤.
I've still yet to see either a speedrun from you beating the game in under 7 minutes or a video of somebody else beating the game that quickly. As such, you still haven't established how feasible this is for a person to actually do in real time beyond just listing a route through the game. With regards to the level 6 input, I can improve that section to remove the time loss from it. Personally, I think that you don't think this game is suitable for a TAS anyways. If it were accepted it would be vault only, which renders picking up the bird seeds a null point. I'm not really sure why you feel the need to be so condescending and rude. With the exception of level 6 (which I can and will fix within an hour or so after I wake up tomorrow), the run contains no slow sections or timelosses. Besides, as far as Atari 2600 TASes go on this site, I find this pretty entertaining. Compare this game to, say, Riddle of the Sphinx or Frankenstein's Monster. Does this game deserve to have a vault TAS made of it less so than those games? Would you prefer playing those games to playing this game?
Spikestuff
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Just going to point out that none of your posts that you have here line up anymore with your latest post, so great job at being extremely inconsistent in 2 hours.
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Personally, I think that you don't think this game is suitable for a TAS anyways.
I'm going to request for what you to read, and reread what you wrote here several times. I'll let you know something else since I already told you one thing before. You're telling someone who has done superhuman input TASes; Bishi Bashi, Short Order, Tapper and No One Can Stop Mr. Domino. And some of those that I just listed are in Vault by the way. (and one of those were an April Fools TAS that somehow got accepted) This TAS could've had superhuman input, but you just didn't bother.
Lobsterzelda wrote:
I've still yet to see either a speedrun from you beating the game in under 7 minutes or a video of somebody else beating the game that quickly. As such, you still haven't established how feasible this is for a person to actually do in real time beyond just listing a route through the game.
Same, I've yet to see anything from you on doing this as an RTA. The request goes both ways Darling. So hows about it? You put out something so static, that must mean that you've done plenty of RTA work on this game. Where is it? Again, goes both ways, don't assume it goes to one and not yourself, especially when you created this TAS.
Lobsterzelda wrote:
If it were accepted it would be vault only, which renders picking up the bird seeds a null point.
Too bad it's not a null point when you were talking nonsense on another post because you didn't attempt at trying to make it a point of entertainment at all, no try instead you decided to do something so something so static.
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Also, grabbing the bird seeds would slow me down because I would have to move up or down to grab them, which is why I don't bother to grab them.
Cause you learnt something about the game the same day you submitted it.
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Besides, as far as Atari 2600 TASes go on this site, I find this pretty entertaining.
Good job being subjective with something of static input. At least try to make it not obvious that you're not lying. God. You know what, I'll be subjective back to you. Probably the best 2 Atari 2600 TASes we have on the site actually do deserve that Moon rating. [3245] A2600 Pitfall II: Lost Caverns "maximum score" by Alyosha in 09:30.32 [3351] A2600 H.E.R.O. by StarvinStruthers in 09:51.01
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Does this game deserve to have a vault TAS made of it less so than those games?
Sorry, I had to fix what you wrote, it just made it sound like you honestly didn't give a single shit about creating this TAS and just went "here it is, didn't bother optimizing it at all, enjoy~" This comment you wrote here is well in your words.
Lobsterzelda wrote:
condescending and rude.
How about you actually give a shit on what you're TASing instead of well for one lying through what you wrote? You have a choice. Cancel it like your other two A2600 TASes or actually bother with an attempt at being optimal and well doing something rather than being static. I'll give another example. END TO END, Just keep going to the top and bottom of each level and avoiding every obstacle and Wile E. Coyote. HOLY MOLLY THAT JUST MADE IT MORE ENGAGING, WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT? Again. Have a nice day~ ❤. A suggestion: Don't post back unless you actually care about doing something that's not static.
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Lobsterzelda
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What a wall of text! Where should I even begin? Let's see... For one thing, Tapper is hardly a good example of superhuman input. It's a boring to watch TAS, which is only superhuman because of the fact that it moves up and down faster than a real person with an atari 2600 joystick could. By that token, a game that was just 10 minutes of frame perfectly alternating up and down would be a technical masterpiece and a super human TAS. With regards to you calling me darling, its not doing much to show that you aren't condescending, but I don't have more to say in reply to that tbh. I'm not really sure what you're talking about when you say that this is static. Frankly, I don't know what that means, though it sounds like a subjective scale that you're describing. Possibly it means something like how much movement there is, but i've never heard anyone use that term to describe a TAS in either a good way or a bad way, so i'll ignore that for now and wait for you to explain what that means (as I assume you probably will in your next post, since this thread is showing no signs of dying). As far as the game being hard goes, that is based on what I have gathered from watching other people play the game and reading reviews of the game, which list it as a relatively hard game. Playing this RTA on my own also showed that (with the exception of the first 2 levels) the game is somewhat hard to play fast. A TAS makes it easy since you know where all obstacles are, but in RTA, you have to keep slowing down to avoid Wile E. Coyote entering his roller skate mode unless an obstacle is near, or you can go fast and hope that you land in a perfect path to an obstacle, which is easier said than done. When Wile E. Coyote catches up to you, the only way to avoid dying is to run circles around him to try to create seperation between you two (provided there is no stage hazard or bird seed nearby) Ex. see 7:00 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhQgEarNiMc Personally, I consider it to be entertaining to see how little a TAS can do to beat the game in the fastest time possible. I suppose you could call me something of a minimalist (though I'm sure you're just going to reply saying I did that because I'm either lazy, rushing, bad at TASing, or some combination of the three). If you want to see somebody run all over the place to beat the game, you can watch a real person play the game. A TAS is a machine. It should be able to be perfect. I admit, this is somewhat of a subjective thing, and some people might prefer for TASes to instead be more complicated. I consider it a difference of opinion, and truth be told, some games sit at different ends of the complexity vs simplicity tradeoffs in terms of what makes for the "best" TAS. When you say I learned something the day I submitted the game, I'm really not sure what you're talking about. What's "It"? What did I learn? You say that I lied because I called this an entertaining TAS, which I find kind of funny for something so subjective of an opinion. Also, if this is being accepted to the vault of Atari 2600 games, trying to compare the entertainment value of this game to that of the moons of Atari 2600 games is irrelevant. With talking about the game having a TASvideo publication on it, I'm referring to the fact that this game deserves to be on TASvideos. I'm not claiming that my movie is the only possible movie from this game that could have been on the site, or that the movie I made was low quality but should be accepted because the game is good. You talking about me canceling two other TASes is somewhat of a low blow, which doesn't relate much to this TAS. The first one I canceled (Pitfall!) I canceled because the amount of time it would take to simulate through all outcomes in a run with deaths (which was different than what I had originally intended to submit) would be so long that I'd probably need to make a program to simulate it, and with how long that would take, there's no need for it to clog up the workbench in the meantime. As far as the Smurfs TAS goes, I canceled that to make a collaborative TAS with ViGadeomes, who was coincidentally also working on that game as well. The TAS is actually pretty much ready to be submitted to the site tbh, but at this point were waiting to look for further optimizations. After this, we'll submit it. Well, that just about wraps up my wall of text. My hope is that your reply will be shorter than this, and then my reply to that can be even shorter still, because these replies take way too long to write, and on a site dedicated to TASes, who has time for that? :P
Spikestuff
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Good, you went for my weakest TAS example. Good Job. (Spoilers: It was bait. Also you literally described what a superhuman TAS was when attempting to knock it down, so double Good Job.) Now, now, calm down hun your blowing up there and here. :V Ok, let's look at other words besides static, like the other word I used "lack of effort". Does that help you? Static in this sense basically is like you're walking in a single direction and doing nothing else, saying you don't have a spring in your step, hopping, swaying side to side. You're robotic, boring and lack energy and so forth. (not a jab, just an example)
Lobsterzelda wrote:
watching other people play the game and reading reviews of the game,
So you never bothered. So, when will you? When I bother to do it especially with my entire backlog of things to do.
Lobsterzelda wrote:
When you say I learned something the day I submitted the game, I'm really not sure what you're talking about. What's "It"? What did I learn?
That the game is pretty much an autoscroller (to a TAS that is) and that you didn't bother checking if well moving in directions actually cause an effect on the speed of the Roadrunner which is constant no matter what you do, literally Cabbage Patch Kids has more depth. (Probably date differences in development, but this came out after CPK) I didn't state that you lied calling it an entertaining TAS. Entertainment is subjective, go over that thought process again on that point and obviously reread what I wrote especially in regards to you contradicting yourself is the main point of the one you're attempting to string together in this one. Your argument was on subjective entertainment, my response to you was subjective entertainment this entire point you're attempting to make is literally as I wrote above this sentence is stringing it. Anything is better than Burn the Rope. The referral to cancel is to take it back in the workshop and try again and optimize it (the stress point being level 6). (Similar to that of Smurfs) There are points I skipped over either as they're "fine" or that it's not worth retorting back to since it's literally a copy + paste.
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Lobsterzelda
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In response to your shorter reply, I will aim to make my reply even shorter still! As far as Tapper goes, you shoudn't have brought it up willingly if it was a weak example of a TAS. You can't say "This is a good high-quality TAS" and then when told it wasn't very entertaining to watch, just say "I was only joking. Of course the TAS was bad." Also, I told you that I played the game before in RTA to see how difficult it was to a casual player. Actually, before I did the first level of the TAS, I timed a TAS going through the level 3 different times: one with basically just running left and minimal jumping, one with going through the level holding left and jumping constantly. And once with moving up and down around obstacles in lieu of jumping. I got a time that was one frame slower with moving up and down. I figured that moving up or down was probably either slower than running or the same speed, so just in case there was a small time loss associated with it, I decided not to do it. In retrospect, I probably just had a frame of not holding left somewhere in the middle, since that sometimes happens when you try to drag an input over a lot of frames. I'm not really sure what the address of the Road Runner's speed is, and it would be hard to find if the Road Runner moves at a constant speed (since it would basically just be a boolean at that point). Tbh, I think this game as a whole could possibly make it into moons, the more I think about it. However, to be a moons TAS, it would probably have to be a playaround rather than aiming for fastest completion. In the meantime, i'll incorporate the level 6 improved movement and the jump at the end of the game to save input frames, and then i'll see if people like this TAS or not. Mainly, I want to find out if people would prefer a playaround TAS or a fastest completion TAS. I could also aim for high score, though I doubt anyone really cares about that. Once I get some feedback, i'll adjust accordingly. Either way, with what I know now, I could add in grabbing the bird seed without losing time.
Spikestuff
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Re: Tapper. You literally defined the meaning of a "superhuman TAS" in your post to a superhuman TAS. So you might want to drop that, before you end in a (game) loop. (Yes I pretty much repeated my point, but rewrote it differently.) Honestly it's more of a frustrating game than a hard one. Once you get it down pat it'd be something straightforward since time and practice. So in relation to movement for up and down it's related to how long the input has to be pressed before you start losing speed. That's a bit of one to note down for a method with less extreme vertical movement.
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Lobsterzelda
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With regards to the game being a frustrating game, are you talking about Tapper or Road Runner? I'm assuming for the movement that you're saying if you repeatedly press up or down for one frame, followed by releasing for a frame, then you won't lose speed, but if you hold up or down for a certain number of frames in a row, then the road runner does lose speed. Is that what you're saying?
Spikestuff
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(It went to Road Runner, forgot to clarify or gap it enough) Well more than a frame works 30 was the max I went to for a direction, if that's too steep then 10-20 would suit it.
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Spikestuff, stop making optimization a personal issue. TASing is about competition, not rhetorics. If a submission is improvable, demonstrate it clearly. Not everyone is equally skilled, but people here tend to improve their skills. And for that, they need fair competition. If you can't participate in that, leave the workbench to the judges, and those who can participate.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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om, nom, nom... blech, salty!