Solomon's Key (U) NES any%

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: FCEUX 2.20.20
  • Aims for fastest possible completion
  • Uses warps
  • Uses a glitch to save time in 2 rooms

Comments

This is my first TAS. I was inspired by a couple of speedrunners of the game, and decided to dive in and finally learn. I also drew ideas and strategies from agwawaf's TAS, and from bisqwit and ktwo. Below are notes of interest and frame counts for each room. (From a room's first available input to when Dana's sprite disappears.)

Room by room comments

Room 1

Frame count: 329 to 827 = 498

Room 2

Frame count: 1542 to 2009 = 467

Room 3

Frame count: 2723 to 4060 = 1337

Room 4

Frame count: 4759 to 5157 = 398

Room 5

Uses frame-perfect vertical jumping to save time. Frame count: 5872 to 6273 = 401

Room 6

Uses the super fireball to save time. Frame count: 6989 to 8076 = 1087

Room 7

Uses a combination of agwawaf's strategy (before key) and metroidmcfly's speedrun strategy (after key). Gets the warp feather to skip ahead to room 13. Frame count: 8779 to 9802 = 1023

Room 13

Uses frame-perfect vertical climbing, a well-timed fireball, a "natural staircase," and an hourglass to save time. Frame count: 10507 to 11789 = 1282

Room 14

Frame count: 12444 to 13366 = 922

Room 15

Gets the warp feather to skip ahead to room 21. Frame count: 14072 to 15237 = 1165

Room 21

Frame count: 15940 to 16515 = 575

Room 22

Tight timing here on jumps and movements. Thanks to ktwo for an additional 20 frame time save. Frame count: 17226 to 17974 = 748

Room 23

First use of a glitch I discovered. If you're standing on the right edge of a block, face left and create a block, you'll create a block on the block you're standing on. Ordinarily, the game will push you off the block afterwards and you'll begin falling. However, if you alternate left and down inputs, Dana won't register as falling, even though the Y-position slowly increases. Importantly, you can also still jump from this state. Here, I use the glitch to get the key and jump back up afterwards. Also gets the warp feather to skip ahead to room 29. Frame count: 18683 to 19224 = 541

Room 29

Frame count: 19936 to 20390 = 454

Room 30

Another stage with extremely tight timing. Frame count: 21104 to 23451 = 2347

Room 31

Removes several blocks in the center column to save time. Frame count: 24085 to 25476 = 1391

Room 37

It is technically possible to do a perfect vertical climb (see agwawaf's TAS), but I could not replicate the necessary starting condition for the room. Frame count: 26182 to 26606 = 424

Room 38

Uses the glitch to jump from the key straight into the door, avoiding the otherwise necessary fall and walk back. Frame count: 27321 to 29368 = 2047

Room 39

Gets the warp feather to skip ahead to room 45. Frame count: 30064 to 31194 = 1130

Room 45

Frame count: 31901 to 33288 = 1387

Room 46

Another stage with extremely tight timing. Frame count: 33991 to 34761 = 770

Room 47

Frame count: 35474 to 36380 = 906

Room 48

Frame count: 37092 to 39987 = 2895

Room Solomon

The final frame count here is the last input of Dana smacking the book. Frame count: 40673 to 41568 = 895

Other comments

For those already familiar with previous TASs of the game, the glitch used in rooms 23 and 38 is probably the key (hah) element of interest.

ThunderAxe31: File replaced with a spiked version that removes 348 blank frames at the end, and judging.
ThunderAxe31: File replaced with a 19 frames improvement.
ThunderAxe31: Welcome to TASVideos, ninespaces!
This seems to me to be a very nice first attempt, with proficient use of TASing techniques and use of the known tricks. Good job!
While the reception did initially seem to be positive for me, I couldn't ignore the fact that current publication has Vault ratings for entertainment. After asking for more reactions in the submission thread, it was pointed out which ones are the downsides that also put this movie outside of the Moons zone, and I was unable to argue against these.
The goal for this movie is to beat the game as fast as possible, most notably thanks to the use of warps, as opposed of the current publication which instead aims to beat all levels and thus ignores the warps. However, there are two obsoleted movies which are making use of some warps, and since this means that they don't qualify for the full-completion goal, they should be moved under the obsoletion chain of this movie, after that it's published.
Accepting for Vault, as an improvement of [1] NES Solomon's Key by Bisqwit in 22:43.95.
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TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6458: ninespaces's NES Solomon's Key in 11:31.68
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For reference, currently TASVideos seems to only have warpless completions of this game. This is the first any%. The non-TAS any% record for this game is 12 minutes and 31 seconds, although it is timed differently. Although technically, my TAS of this game was an any% because it did not qualify for 100% for using one (1) warp. The reason is because back when I made the run, I was not aware that the game has warps, and I ran into one by accident.
Spikestuff
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Final input is extended for 348 frames more than it should be. Here's a fix dropping the time down (to 11:31.99) for the judge (or whatever the other role was) to replace.
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Post subject: Temp Encode
DrD2k9
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Here's a temp encode. Link to video
Post subject: Needs more audience reception
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I found this movie entertaining, but I can't ignore the fact that the published movie is in Vault, even though the goal for that movie is different (full-completion). So I need to ask: did you find this movie entertaining? Why?
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I find this run mildly entertaining, but not exceptionally. This is one of those games in which I would rather work on the actual TAS process than watch the final product.
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Gameplay isn't bad, but those endless interruptions become incredibly annoying, because of how short the levels are, and because the interruptions are all the same, and they are kinda long. Voted No.
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Gameplay is slow and a little repetitive. It would be borderline on yes/meh if it weren't for the frequent pauses. Between the level load-times, and the half second pause every time a key is collected, it's enough to make it difficult for me to want to finish watching.
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Nice to see a TAS of this category. Good find of the new clip jumping! While watching the movie, a few improvement ideas came to mind. I decided to play around with them a bit to see if any time could be saved. Most of my ideas didn't produce faster solutions. This was only a spot check in a few places, but I wasn't able to shave frames off the solutions that were used in this run either. I still have a few comments/questions though: * At frame 17911 (room 22), you should have jumped over the blue flame without quenching it first. That would have saved 20 frames. * In room 29, it's possible to get the gargoyle to start moving to the right (iso left in this run). I think that could speed up the jumps to the exit. Unfortunately, I don't know the game mechanics behind this. It's only based on (a lot of) RTA experience. * Not a time save at this point, but I'm still mentioning it. At the end of room 31, it would be faster to use a fire ball against the last demon head. However, all fireballs along the route would cost more to collect than the time saved in room 31. At least from what I can see. * How much slower is the current RTA-route in room 48? I assume you have already tested it, so it's just out of curiosity on my part. * Finally a very, very minor comment. There are lots of "garbage" inputs (inputs that don't do anything) in the movie file. Unless these serve some purpose not explained in the comments, it's good practice to keep the input file as clean as possible. From an optimization point of view, I think the time loss in room 22 should be corrected. It would also be nice to get clarity of the possibility to save time in room 29. Other than that, this appears to be optimized in my eyes, both in terms of solutions and execution. If you're up for it, I hope you consider looking into the best ending run as well. There is a little time to save in that run.
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ktwo wrote:
Nice to see a TAS of this category. Good find of the new clip jumping! While watching the movie, a few improvement ideas came to mind. I decided to play around with them a bit to see if any time could be saved. Most of my ideas didn't produce faster solutions. This was only a spot check in a few places, but I wasn't able to shave frames off the solutions that were used in this run either. I still have a few comments/questions though: * At frame 17911 (room 22), you should have jumped over the blue flame without quenching it first. That would have saved 20 frames. * In room 29, it's possible to get the gargoyle to start moving to the right (iso left in this run). I think that could speed up the jumps to the exit. Unfortunately, I don't know the game mechanics behind this. It's only based on (a lot of) RTA experience. * Not a time save at this point, but I'm still mentioning it. At the end of room 31, it would be faster to use a fire ball against the last demon head. However, all fireballs along the route would cost more to collect than the time saved in room 31. At least from what I can see. * How much slower is the current RTA-route in room 48? I assume you have already tested it, so it's just out of curiosity on my part. * Finally a very, very minor comment. There are lots of "garbage" inputs (inputs that don't do anything) in the movie file. Unless these serve some purpose not explained in the comments, it's good practice to keep the input file as clean as possible. From an optimization point of view, I think the time loss in room 22 should be corrected. It would also be nice to get clarity of the possibility to save time in room 29. Other than that, this appears to be optimized in my eyes, both in terms of solutions and execution. If you're up for it, I hope you consider looking into the best ending run as well. There is a little time to save in that run.
Thank you for the feedback. I think the quench in 22 was a hangover from a prior strat -- whoops! I've updated the TAS accordingly. For 29, I tested a few different things, but couldn't get the gargoyle moving right. Perhaps someone who understands the game logic better can help? I know bisqwit has done some impressive disassembly, but it's all over my head. For 48, while I was making the TAS I actually tested a version using the RTA route, because it looked like it might be faster. Unfortunately it ended up being slower, although I can't remember exactly how much slower I'm afraid. I want to create a clean version that only has the necessary inputs. The problem with this game (I don't know if it's unique to Solomon's Key, because this is my first TAS) is that inputs that seem benign end up changing later RNG/AI/lag frames. For example, the 20 frames now saved in room 22 (thank you!) changed the timings and inputs on every subsequent room. Sometimes only by adding/removing one frame, but at other times several changes to inputs are required to get the TAS "back on track", so to speak. And this happens every time there's any change at all! I suspect it's due to timers changing and interacting with lag frames / eaten inputs, but I can't seem to get any consistency when I test. I'm hopeful that some smart cookie who knows the ins and outs of the game might know what's really going on...? Thank you also to SpikeStuff, DrD2k9, and ThunderAxe31 for helping fix up the original submission. Is there any way I can update it with the new time save?
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ninespaces wrote:
Is there any way I can update it with the new time save?
If you have an improvement for your currently submitted movie, you can upload it there: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/my#uploadfile Then I will replace the submission file for you, like I already did for the blank frames.
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
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ThunderAxe31 wrote:
If you have an improvement for your currently submitted movie, you can upload it there: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/my#uploadfile Then I will replace the submission file for you, like I already did for the blank frames.
Thanks. I've uploaded it: User movie #56858094451500176
Post subject: Movie published
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4007] NES Solomon's Key by ninespaces in 11:31.68
ViGadeomes
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This movie has a general rating of 7.2, shouldn't it be changed to Moons instead of Vault ? I saw Moon movies with a worst rating than that.
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We have a thread for teir change requests: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17329
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EZGames69 wrote:
We have a thread for teir change requests: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17329
Thanks I forgot sorry.