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[MOD Note: Topic originally split from Thread #18049: #5130: TASeditor's NES Shadow of the Ninja (Japan) in 09:30.41 -Mothrayas]
Link to video
I'm sorting out my mailbox and I find some messages which make me angry.There are cunning and deceit in these messages.You can watch the video link to know all the story.Maybe someone question why I'm saying it now.I can only say there are many reasons.Maybe I was busy to neglect these messages,maybe I couldn't visit tasvideos at that time from my region,maybe I was not able to fight for my rights since my poor English,maybe I've had it to the limit now.I have the freedom to fight for my rights no matter how long.Remember,I don't want things to get worse,I just want a reasonable explanation.But TASeditor's explanation explain nothing.This explanation attempt to deceive me again.@Administrators,@Judgment,@TASeditor
So you both exchanged input files with eachother and both improved on the movie together?
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 231
Location: Lonely City
There are many ways to cooperate.Some lofty players enen write Co-author since one small advisement.Not to mention it is TASeditor's propose.If you ask whether we both exchanged input files.I will answer you:Of Course.I gave him my original tas,explained the glitch,explained the frame-rule,received his wip,gave him new input to solve trouble and so on.Now TASeditor doesn't admit these at all.If you can't see the video clearly,down pictures from here，download file TASeditor's Story.zip
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I watched the video.
If I ask someone to co-work on a new movie with me, get a lot of help, and then only submit my own input to remain the only author, that would be extremely questionable.
The way co-authorship works is, I send my WIPs to my partner, who then improves my times and sends it back to me, then I improve, and so on. With constant back-and-forth, we try to improve upon each other in every spot, until we can't improve it anymore. But then there may be all other ways of contributing, and depending on how important the helping was, one either gets credited as a co-author or just as someone in the Thanks section.
Xipo, have you actually improved TASeditor's times and sent him those as movies? I'm asking here so that everyone doesn't have to watch the video.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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EDIT: My apologies to TASeditor for implicating him in this post. I acted rashly, without having full information. That was a mistake on my part. I will keep this post up for posterity but retract my comments in it.
Having seen the evidence, I'll say that this is an incredibly scummy move by TASeditor.
The entire exchange and cooperation of the movie started out with TASeditor proposing co-authorship with Xipo. When doing that, and then having a successful co-operation on the project, both authors deserve to have credit on the movie. Excluding Xipo's name without informing him is scummy.
The reason (only given more than three years after publication) about Xipo's input not being included in the movie (even if that is true), is a poor excuse. Xipo clearly provided input many times in the PM exchange, and it is evident that this movie was not possible to make without the input sent by Xipo. "I improved upon them" is just a cop-out to avoid having to give credit to someone else - and by the looks of it, it might not even be true.
I think it is clear that this movie should not be counted as solely TASeditor's work, and Xipo should be added retroactively as a co-author.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Xipo, thank you for bringing this to our attention.
The taseditor (the tool in FCEUX) view you provided is particularly interesting. I think even by taseditor's (the person) definition, you deserve to be an author of this movie.
I think his definition is too strict too. I think the community would agree that you have contributed meaningful work to this movie and should be an author even if technically none of your inputs were actually in the movie. (Again, I think they are and there is clear evidence).
My recommendation is that we add xipo as an author. That's easily done for the submission and publication pages. Someone will need to re-encode this though for the youtube subtitles.
Xipo is lying about same input in 3:45 in his video, just check my submission file. Have checked my submission file, Mothrayas, adelikat, EZGames69?
And furthermore Xipo only contributed rarely with tipps and sent me unoptimized input files, which i used as reference.
If someone doesn't have made inputs for my TAS, but helped otherwise, they get credited in submission text.
And lol at the hotchanges in TAS Editor. He just added the L-presses by himself.
Xipo is lying about same input in 3:45 in his video, just check my submission file. Have checked my submission file, Mothrayas, adelikat, EZGames69?
What did I do? All I did was ask for clarification from Xipo.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
I would like you to explain the messages in the video.
Whether you think it's biased or not, it does show that you've asked him to do specific things in the game, and I find it very hard to believe that it didnt result in Xipo sending a file that did what you wanted. Even if you later optimized on that, you wouldnt have been able to achive that trick if it wasnt for Xipo.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
I never specifically asked him to do input, just explaining the situations would be fine for me.
And how many times did you NOT add a co-author of someone who found out about a trick, but have credited in submission?
So you never received any input file from him ever?
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't
12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!"
Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet
MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish
[Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person
MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol
Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 231
Location: Lonely City
feos wrote:
I watched the video.
If I ask someone to co-work on a new movie with me, get a lot of help, and then only submit my own input to remain the only author, that would be extremely questionable.
The way co-authorship works is, I send my WIPs to my partner, who then improves my times and sends it back to me, then I improve, and so on. With constant back-and-forth, we try to improve upon each other in every spot, until we can't improve it anymore. But then there may be all other ways of contributing, and depending on how important the helping was, one either gets credited as a co-author or just as someone in the Thanks section.
Xipo, have you actually improved TASeditor's times and sent him those as movies? I'm asking here so that everyone doesn't have to watch the video.
feos!I used to think you were a just man.But that was before,now I've changed my mind.You define co-work different in different periods.Do you remember this tas?The submitter is you,feos.You retained my 99.9999% input and made a little change.Then you wrote your name in co-work.After that I improved this tas again,all the input belonged to me,originality came from Koh1fds,this means there is nothing to do with you there.Why did you retain your name in co-author?
As for your question whether I actually improved TASeditor's times,I've made it clear in the video.
TASeditor wrote:
Xipo is lying about same input in 3:45 in his video, just check my submission file. Have checked my submission file, Mothrayas, adelikat, EZGames69?
And furthermore Xipo only contributed rarely with tipps and sent me unoptimized input files, which i used as reference.
If someone doesn't have made inputs for my TAS, but helped otherwise, they get credited in submission text.
And lol at the hotchanges in TAS Editor. He just added the L-presses by himself.
If you think I lied,you should take out your evidence like me instead of taiking.My video is public,everyone can watch.Let us look what I said in 3:45.I'm sorry,I didn't said anything,I just gave an example to tell us:adding some meaningless input can't make a old input become a new input.Whatever you say,what you can't avoid is that this is your real input.My input's proportion is more than 90%.All the nice originality and glitch came from me.You TASeditor,only made a little contribution.I admire what you've done.You spend a lot of time to make new tas look different from mine.You add a lot of left+right to make hero walk backwards.As I said before,TASeditor wanted to make a old input become a new input on sensuousness.
Yes, you lied!
Everone check if my picture is correct! Left is my new TAS, right is Xipo.
And the video contains so much more lies about me. I am not good at TASing this game. Are you kidding me?
And once more, you have 0 (zero)% input in my new TAS!
Here is everytime he sent me input:
My input I sent him: User movie #23907231870943389Xipos PM wrote:
Here's my input which I sent him up to 5-2 auto-scroller: User movie #31165235166765735. He changed one button press on it, which I then changed again.
Xipos PM wrote:
Joined: 10/12/2011
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xipo just a dumb question. You can choose to answer it or not.
Is the reason why you created the false damning narrative and evidence is because you were trying to make an improvement on this movie but couldn't, and then decided to bump a 3 year old thread with this claim?
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Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
Joined: 12/26/2006
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What can this prove?I have said it in my video:I have to admit I was a little perfunctory at the beginnning since I was busy and I am not good at English.But in the next few years,I helped him a lot.I don't think your evidence is complete,it is interpret out of context.As for you picture,What can it prove?There may be a big gap with one different frame.Press left+right or A many times doesn't influence the tas.It can't negative my input and idea are majority.In your own words,you still haven't explained why you couldn't do these input and idea in your previous tas before getting my original file.You still haven't explained why you PM me Co-author.You still haven't explained why you said all the new tas only belong to you.We can put this discuss on youtube/facebook/twitter,let people judge who is right,who is lying.
You helped almost none, only gave tipps 3 times, you changed 1 or 2 button presses from the files I sent you and that's it. You couldn't even explain most of the things you did, like 1:37 in your video.
My picture isn't here to proof anything. Everyone should download my new TAS and your TAS and compare them and see if I lied with my picture.
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 231
Location: Lonely City
As everyone knows,one taser can play a variety of tricks in same time.You haven't explaine my three questions.Do you think one taser need PM Co-author if he can finish tas by himself?
I asked if you wanted to work on this project together, but you rarely did anything, so I assume you weren't interessted in TASing this game. All the times you changed little input has been improved by me.
TASeditor wrote:
If someone doesn't have made inputs for my TAS, but helped otherwise, they get credited in submission text.
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 231
Location: Lonely City
TASeditor wrote:
I asked if you wanted to work on this project together, but you rarely did anything, so I assume you weren't interessted in TASing this game. All the times you changed little input has been improved by me.
TASeditor wrote:
If someone doesn't have made inputs for my TAS, but helped otherwise, they get credited in submission text.
There's no point in pestering like this.What even children know.One taser needn't PM Co-author if he can finish tas by himself.As you say:I asked if you wanted to work on this project together, but you rarely did anything.
OK.There are new questions here.Why didn't you stop PM me?Why did you keep asking me?Why did you keep giving me your WIP?Why did you receive my input?
I asked if you wanted to work on this project together, but you rarely did anything, so I assume you weren't interessted in TASing this game. All the times you changed little input has been improved by me.
Everyone can follow my work on this game from here Post #394129 and here http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/game/34
And what 3 questions should I explain?
There's no point in pestering like this.What even children know.One taser needn't PM Co-author if he can finish tas by himself.As you say:I asked if you wanted to work on this project together, but you rarely did anything.
OK.There are new questions here.Why did you stop PM me?Why did you keep asking me?Why did you give me your WIP?Why did you receive my input?
Do you understand what this says?
TASeditor wrote:
If someone doesn't have made inputs for my TAS, but helped otherwise, they get credited in submission text.
At the end of my submission text of my new TAS there's your name!
I asked one time if you wanted to be a co-author, but you rarely did anything, you should know this. I kept asking you because you were knowlegde enough on this game to help. I gave you my WIPs so you can check it and give tipps. None of your input is in my new TAS, as I already said I only used it for reference.
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 231
Location: Lonely City
TASeditor wrote:
Xipo wrote:
TASeditor wrote:
I asked if you wanted to work on this project together, but you rarely did anything, so I assume you weren't interessted in TASing this game. All the times you changed little input has been improved by me.
Everyone can follow my work on this game from here Post #394129 and here http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/game/34
And what 3 questions should I explain?
There's no point in pestering like this.What even children know.One taser needn't PM Co-author if he can finish tas by himself.As you say:I asked if you wanted to work on this project together, but you rarely did anything.
OK.There are new questions here.Why did you stop PM me?Why did you keep asking me?Why did you give me your WIP?Why did you receive my input?
Do you understand what this says?
TASeditor wrote:
If someone doesn't have made inputs for my TAS, but helped otherwise, they get credited in submission text.
At the end of my submission text of my new TAS there's your name!
I asked one time if you wanted to be a co-author, but you rarely did anything, you should know this. I kept asking you because you were knowlegde enough on this game to help. I gave you my WIPs so you can check it and give tipps. None of your input is in my new TAS, as I already said I only used it for reference.
Your logic is funny.You said you can do this tas by youself,but you PM me Co-author.You said I rarely did anything,but you kept PM&asking me.How do you think you are benevolent since you put my name in text?How do you make me and everybody believe you?I admit my English is very poor,sometimes I can't express my opinion.So I choose to shut up.But at all times I belive:Facts speak louder than words, and people have a sense of natural justice.
Joined: 12/26/2006
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By the way..As TASeditor's definition about Co-author.Many tas are not Co-work in this page.Administrators should delete many name include TASeditor's name.
Post the PM where I said I could do this TAS by my own.
Yes, you rarely did anything, that's very true. And again none of your input you've sent me is in my new TAS. I only asked sometimes for little help, just explaining would have been enough to help me out. Should feos be an author aswell? Post #395111
Crediting someones name at the end of the submission text for someone who helped not with input, but otherwise is the correct way to do so.
Have you already forgotten what you did for this TAS the last 3 years?
Indeed facts speak louder than words, that's why I didn't compile them in a video where it is very hard to collect them and confirm for others.
And the video contains so much more lies about me. I am not good at TASing this game. Are you kidding me?
And once more, you have 0 (zero)% input in my new TAS!
Here is everytime he sent me input:
My input I sent him: User movie #23907231870943389
