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Former player
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 146
Location: Dirty South, USA.
From M2K2 forums: http://www.metroid2002.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2197
LeCoureur103 wrote:
I can tell you just about anything you need to know, secret world-wise. First, no, there are no metroids in secret worlds. Second, I have tinkered with the counter and Queen quite a bit, and I'm quite certain that the counter must move downwards 46 individual times for the Queen to appear. You can make the counter read 1 without having killed 46 metroids, but the Queen still won't appear. You can reach the ship at the end of the game (an entirely separate room than the one you start in, by the way), but you won't activate the ending unless the counter has moved 47 times. It's very possible to abuse the counter so that it reads 0 without actually having killed 47 metroids, but the ending still won't play if you do this. The baby egg will hatch no matter what, it's very easy to reach with secret worlds. The baby works like normal, but he won't cause the ending to start if you take him to the ship. Also, a limitation of his is that he disappears if the screen scrolls over to a new room. This is why the "baby tunnel" and the outside of the planet is all one continuous room. Using lots of different secret world warping, you could probably cut off about 10 minutes from your ending time. Any more questions?
So basically you have to kill all of the metroids to get the Queen battle, and then beat the Queen to be able to trigger the ending.
If for honesty, you want apologies, I don't sympathize.
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 149
I don't know about the select glitch. I mean, yeah I want to see Samus opening extradimensional gateways to go wherever she wants, but I don't like runs that cut out the majority of the gameplay. i.e. Rygar, Link to the Past, and Circle of the Moon. EDIT: made the above comment somehow without reading Zoizite's. If you still kill forty-some Metroids, then there's still enough action even if you use the select glitch.
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
Ferret Warlord wrote:
feitclub wrote:
Irregardless of how few missles you might need to kill the queen,
I hate to sound like a grammar cop, but I am now obligated to not like you unless you give me ten dollars and promise on pain of death to never say that again. Yeah, it's a minor pet peeve of mine.
Grammar cop? I say False Arrest!
teh dictionary wrote:
adv : regardless; a combination of irrespective and regardless sometimes used humorously
It is non-standard, yes, but it is a real word. Misunderestimate or stratergy it is not.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Former player
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 146
Location: Dirty South, USA.
I don't think I'm going to take up this run right now. I seriously need a break from Metroid.
If for honesty, you want apologies, I don't sympathize.
Skilled player (1404)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
I'm going to state how I think the select glitch works. This is all based on casual observation, so no formal testing has been done on this. Anywho. We're all familiar with what happens when the screen buffer is poorly implemented and is the same size as your screen. The tiles behind you end up getting placed in front of you. Usually this isn't visible as the buffer is often larger than the screen, but it can be seen in some games. This is basically standard practice. It's very, very safe to assume the same thing is going on in this game, but you can't see it as it takes place off screen (like it should). As you're moving along, the game will drop the parts that are left over, load what should be there, and "place" it. I mentioned before that switching weapons holds the game up; my guess is that if you press select at the exact moment the game is supposed to change what's ahead of you, the pause causes the programming to miss the "drop and load" part and skip straight to the "place" step. Voila. What was behind you is now ahead of you, including empty spaces. if you can place an empty space on the edge of a room, secret worlds pop up. How does this account for some secret worlds, like the one underneath Samus's ship? After all, there are no pits in that room. Here's my answer: I don't know for certain. My guess is that it may have something to do with the presumably intangible blocks beyond the left side of the room, since I've only mangaged to access it while approaching the ship from the left. Confuzled yet? Edit: Okay, not only am I now conviced of the "placement" thing, but after breaking into a secret world to the left of the ship, my suspicions have been confirmed: the secret world under the ship is the result of some junk tiles outside of the room that can't ordinarily be seen. It would also seem to only work if the screen is moving faster than two pixels per frame, aka turning around or falling. Bit of a shame, really, as this limits its usefulness.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Skilled player (1404)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
Okay, select glitch shortcut! This picture was taken in the shaft with the spider ball. Where'd the floor go? Well, using the properties stated above, I used the select glitch to move parts of the shaft above me to remove the bottom. It took four changes (two apiece), and has given me direct access to the spider ball without having to muck about in that maze. You'll still have to use the maze to come back out, though. You'll notice the ball looks different than it should; yes, I used a Game Shark code to give me stuff to make it easier to explore secret worlds.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Former player
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 146
Location: Dirty South, USA.
Very nice discovery! With careful manipulation, you should be able to carve out the scenery to benefit you as you go.
If for honesty, you want apologies, I don't sympathize.
Skilled player (1404)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
Not to bring up a dead topic or anything, but I have just updated the demo run (you MUST have opposing directions enabled; I had some fun with Samus while falling :>). It employs greater precision, the select trick, and a new jumping glitch (if you jump the same frame you stop moving, you'll end up a few pixels in the air at the start). The height of your jump seems to be somewhat random depending on the starting frame, so I had to find which position gives me the best results. The metroid battle was also improved a bit as I started moving back a lot sooner. In all it's about one second faster than my previous run. I might have kept going if I hadn't hit a little snag... Plus I discovered a nifty little feature in VBA: a map viewer. It reads the buffers, approximating what the game sees as the map. It's quite telling about how the game works, and is handy for identifying potential select glitch locations. :P It's takes a little getting used to reading it, though... New information about the select glitch: it will only work if you change your weapon on every fourth frame of emulation (so frame 204 would work, but not frame 206) and in the right position (about half way through a block, it would seem). So you have to be on the right frame, at the right postion, with the screen moving faster than two pixels/frame to get it to work. Note the frame counter is one frame behind when recording, so the previous two examples became 203 and 205.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
Whoa, what the heck happened after the Metroid battle? Caught in some sort of endless loop? Otherwise, your method looks good, I loved how you fell down the shaft with Samus facing the screen.
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Aw, your link doesn't work. When will it work again?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 11/11/2004
Posts: 400
Location: ::1
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Aw, your link doesn't work. When will it work again?
Works fine for me. >_>
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646
It doesn't work for me. EDIT: I tried again and it worked. My connection was probably acting screwy.
I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.
Skilled player (1404)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
Sorry for any problems. Filespace tends to be fritzy.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Okay, I think it worked. Hmm, I noticed you used the "fast" link. Does it work better if you use the regular www link?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 4/19/2005
Posts: 31
http://m2sw.zophar.net/m2dw.html This mod would definately make getting around the secret worlds and cutting corners very easy
Skilled player (1404)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
CtrlAltDestroy mentioned on the IRC that he's thinking about starting a select glitchless run. This got me back into investigating the glitch, and have made a few more discoveries. I was wrong about the "screen moving faster than two pixels per frame" bit; you can get it to work at virtually any scrolling speed. What matters is the frame you start pressing select on. If you start pressing select every other frame (or wait three frames before pressing again; the effect is the same) on the following frames, you are garaunteed to get it working as you move along. Downward: frame 4n Leftward: frame 4n+1 Rightward: frame 4n+2 Upward: frame 4n+3 Where n is any integer. Proper accomidations are made for recording a movie, of course, in which case you subract 1 from those values. It should be mentioned that these numbers ended up being offset several times by a few frames while I was testing. I'm not certain why, but lag may be the culprit. When I found this out, testing the secret worlds became so much easier. I was now granted to a greater number of glitched exits than ever before, and with greater control. And I'm now convinced that the best glitched route may be nigh impossible to map out. <@_@> You see, there are thousands of paths all over the place that would take you virtually anywhere on SR-388 from virtually any other place. It could be very difficult trying to decide where to go, and from where. But maybe I'm just over-reacting here. It could be unbelievably simple. However, I'm still rather giddy to see a glitched run. Taking out a few normal 'troids soon after the springball is something I'd really enjoy.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Skilled player (1404)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
Sorry for the double post, but I slammed this demo together showing off the select glitch's potential to completely wreck the game. It's obviously unoptimized, but it does a good job showing what the beginning of the route is like (it may change though, considering the nature of the warps). In four minutes I nail two metroids, grab the spider ball, bombs, and ice beam, and snag a missile pack. It ends soon after the bombs. And don't worry about those three metroids I missed: they can be taken care of later. This has me excited. Shame I can't tackle this for some great deal of time. :( Anyone think they're up to it? Edit: I updated the movie; I cleaned up some stuff and delved into the Chozo Maze at the end to tackle two more metroids. A small detour could be taken to grab the Varia, but I'm assuming it's a frivolity at this point (still needs testing, though).
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Joined: 4/19/2005
Posts: 31
Cant get your link to work Ferret. Also, has anyone tested the patch i suggested (Even though you wouldnt use it for the final run, it'd be very handy for route planning). Of course there would be routes you cant take with the select glitch that this patch would allow because you would get stuck in walls.
Skilled player (1404)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
Yeah, Filespace is acting up again. Not like it would matter as I accidentally gave it a "vmb" extension when it should be "vbm". I haven't used that patch myself, and personally I think I might pass. It's a good idea, but I think it'd be useless for route planning. Planning a route would involve determing what is possible within the game's programming, and if you used this to plan a path, you may end up with certain impossibilities. However, it WOULD be quite handy for mapping out the secret worlds, which would help out quite a bit, so it may have some use yet... Edit: Fix't the link.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Joined: 4/19/2005
Posts: 31
Cheers, watching it now
Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 40
Location: Oakdale, CT
Would be interesting to see a 100% run of this game. (As we now have 100% runs of virtually every iteration of Metroid).
JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
jdurg wrote:
Would be interesting to see a 100% run of this game. (As we now have 100% runs of virtually every iteration of Metroid).
We do?
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
SXL
Joined: 2/7/2005
Posts: 571
"YAMTAS : Yet Another Mario/Megaman/Metroid Tool Assisted Speedrun" :D soon, every game of those series will be done, and people will start to remember there are other classics too ;)
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (968)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden
>We do? No. We have exactly 1 (one) metroid movie with 100% items, out of several Metroid titles available.
Joined: 2/19/2006
Posts: 40
Location: Oakdale, CT
JXQ wrote:
jdurg wrote:
Would be interesting to see a 100% run of this game. (As we now have 100% runs of virtually every iteration of Metroid).
We do?
If you dig around the forums here and pick up the 'WIP's'. ;)
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