Topic by Alter

Posted: 3/7/2007 7:03 PM

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Alter

Former player

Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116

Truncated, thanks for the answer. I have done some testing on the Omegas today. The fastest way to kill them is NOT to shoot them from behind, because you can only hit them every 35-45 frames (the exact figure seems to change), but in the face. Here`s some tests I did, the last one being the fastest. The key technique is sto force the Omega where you want to have it by using the Screen (they scroll with it) and the Screw Attack (if you don`t have it it`s going to be harder, but still the fastest I guess...) Videos on the tests: Hitting the omega from behind, not the fastest but the least missiles used. Good luck getting that Omega to turn it`s back on you though :/ http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4287/omega%20test.vbm Trying to get behind it again, no luck. Then killing it`s face. Note how much faster you can hit it from the front, but it`s moving away pretty fast. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4288/omega%20test%202.vbm Moving the Omega by scrolling: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4289/omega%20test%203.vbm The fastest method. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4290/omega%20test%205.vbm Well, for an any% run you`d probably still have to use technique 1, which is a pita to get to sometimes :/ Some general progress on my run: This is me getting the Screw Attaack after a imho pretty cool Metroid battle. Also notice how incredibly fast it looks when corners are cut correctly out of the Morphball. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4291/042%20teh%20screwattack.vbm

Posted: 3/8/2007 5:49 PM

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Cardboard

Skilled player (1670)

Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden

Okay here are my first 19600 frames, and Alter, you might find the way the last Metroid battle ends (Frames 19150-isch) VERY interesting, I'm afraid :/ http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4318/SamusIsHawt.vbm Unless you stumbled upon this yourself and already started to use it, of course. Believe me eventhough this is a great time saver (About 55 frames per Metroid), I think it will be hard to manipulate every Metroid into dying like this, like the ones in the sand seas etc, so don't even bother redoing due to this, I mean, it's too hard to get this shit right, so I don't think anyone would blame you.

Warp wrote:

Posted: 3/8/2007 6:39 PM

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Alter

Former player

Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116

I guess you upped the wrong video, because the Metroid battle lasts longer than that, nothing special ^^ General: Good going! A little faster than me, mainly your Metroid battle was better.

Posted: 3/8/2007 6:44 PM

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Cardboard

Skilled player (1670)

Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden

No, it was the right movie, but the point is not the battle itselt, it's how it ends. No explosion sequence /o\ The metroid dies without dying. Also, this is just my test version, so this won't be my submitted version in the end. By the way, have you used the Spider Throw at some point yet?

Warp wrote:

Posted: 3/8/2007 8:58 PM

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Alter

Former player

Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116

Ah, I see. I got that once, but randomly. And yes, that would be hell to do for every fight. Spider Throw? What exactly do you mean by that?

Posted: 3/8/2007 9:12 PM

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Cardboard

Skilled player (1670)

Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden

Check out frame 19425 - 19470. Pressing down to become a spider ball as Samus lands (As a ball) throws her away in the direction you're moving. Not useable on flat surfaces, but can be used on areas like the one I used it on in my WIP.

Warp wrote:

Posted: 3/8/2007 10:33 PM

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Alter

Former player

Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116

Nice move, didn`t know that one yet. I`ll see if I can use it somewhere. Edit: It seems the Spider Throw can be used all the time, as long as you fall from high enough (if you would be bouncing, it works). Check this out: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4325/spider%20throw%20flat.vbm I`m not sure if that move is really useful once you have Varia though... well, testing more ^^ Edit 2: Seems to be working only from right to left :( One small time saver you forgot: At around 18000 you could have jumped up instead of spidering. Apart from that your movie looks pretty much optimal ^^

Posted: 3/8/2007 11:02 PM

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Cardboard

Skilled player (1670)

Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden

Haha, slick. I doubt I'll get the Spring Ball though, so I won't be able to do that. Basically I found this useful if the area looked like... uh... "Fall land on ledge fall some more climb up on another ledge"-style, since you would bounce from ledge A to B without landing in between. Would a jump at 18000 really be enough? Because I never tried that, heh. I'll try it the next time though, thanks. Well this is just my test run, I know a lot of things that can be improved up until this point, mostly jumps and... eh... the Metroid battles. I don't really try to optimize too much, I just try to get through to get something to compare to when doing the real run later.

Warp wrote:

Posted: 3/8/2007 11:19 PM

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Alter

Former player

Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116

Yeah, it looks pretty funny. Let`s see if we can put it to good use somewhere. At 18000 you can jump the last part, you know, spider a little, unmorph, jump. No biggy. Looking forward to your test run (which looks pretty optinized to me ^^*)!

Posted: 3/8/2007 11:26 PM

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Cardboard

Skilled player (1670)

Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden

Haha right. Silly me, haha. Well I'm not exactly rushing with this one, but I'm getting on, slowly, but I'm on my way at least. I just cleared area 2, so it's time for the second earth quake now.

Warp wrote:

Posted: 3/8/2007 11:42 PM

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Alter

Former player

Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116

OMG shocking plot twist! Watch this: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4327/spider%20throw%20flat%203%20compare.vbm That`s about 500 frames to cross the room. And now watch THIS: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/4328/spider%20throw%20flat%203%20omg.vbm

Posted: 3/9/2007 1:57 AM

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jimsfriend

Former player

Joined: 1/17/2006
Posts: 775
Location: Deign

This page at m2k2 has a lot of tricks for this game that could be useful (including the spider ball throw). Just click the links on the red menu on the left and there are videos included.

Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign aqfaq Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign Deign

Posted: 3/9/2007 2:17 AM

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mmbossman

Experienced player (822)

Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong

Alter wrote:

Wow, that is really impressive, I can't wait for a full version. All the new tricks should make this really interesting to watch

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Posted: 3/9/2007 4:29 AM

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OgreSlayeR

Former player

Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 524
Location: USA

Looking forward to this, but I have one question. Can't you use SGB or something for this game? Black and White is FTL...

Working on: Command and Conquer PSX Nod Campaign

Posted: 3/9/2007 4:34 AM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (123)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

This game was made before SGB. SGB itself had preset color for Metroid 2. So pretty much we're stuck with black/white.

Posted: 3/9/2007 8:15 AM

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Alter

Former player

Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116

There`s a color hack, but when running a video for the original with the hack it desyncs rather fast...

Posted: 3/9/2007 8:31 AM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

I'm having an impression that after all these amazing "discoveries", Alter would have to restart his run once again, since it seems that it can be done another minute (or so) faster. :D Though I must say that the 100% run is getting more and more impressive with each new vbm! Wouldn't ever have imagined that from Metroid II, to be honest, so needless to say that I'm pleasantly surprised. Also, nice WIP, Cardboard. I'll discuss all the possible improvements once you're done with the test run.

Warp wrote:

Posted: 3/9/2007 8:39 AM

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Alter

Former player

Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116

Yes, I am almost finished already (break and nothing to do ^^), so I will just not include the Spider Throw for now. I guess it can save about a minute, but the 100% will be fast as it is already. Then, when we have an actual TAS benchmark, I will redo the whole thing, because I am sure many more oppertunities for improvement will come up as they always do.

Posted: 3/9/2007 5:17 PM

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Cardboard

Skilled player (1670)

Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden

Are you seriously almost done? Wow I'm damn excited to see your run :) Remember to quit your movie while Samus is falling into her ship to end input as early as possible (Maybe by throwing her off the ledge with a Spider Throw? Unless you pass on that entirely), unless you have to do extra input after the landing on the ship, of course :/

Warp wrote:

Posted: 3/9/2007 6:01 PM

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mmbossman

Experienced player (822)

Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong

I played this game A TON as a kid, so if memory serves me you need to press down to get her to enter the ship (as you do in real play when you want to enter her ship to recharge and save).

Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page

Posted: 3/9/2007 6:38 PM

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Boco

Former player

Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination

The pressing down thing is in Super Metroid.. in this game, the ship is just a foreground object and the missile and health restore are the same items that do that in-game but on either end of the ship one inside. I think the end game works by picking up an end-game object that's just inside the ship (it's a different ship than the starting one), so you'd only need to fall in, but I might be wrong.

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Posted: 3/9/2007 10:51 PM

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Cardboard

Skilled player (1670)

Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden

Alter I suppose you already figured this out but the Spider Throw must not be activated when Samus lands, just, sometime during a bounce has effect enough. Not that it really matters since it cuts off both speed and height but... well. Good stuff to know.

Warp wrote:

Posted: 3/10/2007 6:07 AM

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Titus_Kwok

Joined: 4/30/2006
Posts: 480
Location: the secret cow level

yeah, you only need to fall into the ship to end the game... back when I used to play this, I would always try to fall straight into the ship. I wish I could remember more about this game... my fastest time on console was 1:14.

Posted: 3/10/2007 6:24 AM

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Alter

Former player

Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116

Cardboard wrote:

Yes, I did. Are you sure it subtracts from speed? I think it is even faster than running, definitely faster than jumping of course (for horizontal movement). I think it can be used in quite some situations, but further testing is needed...

Posted: 3/11/2007 6:03 PM

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Cardboard

Skilled player (1670)

Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden

I just made it through the acid dive, I won't post any more WIPs or anything until the test version is done, but I thought I was gonna inform you guys about my progress. This far, I've picked up 4 Missile Tanks, 2 E-tanks, Bomb, Spider Ball, Space Jump and Varia. I expect to pick up a few more Missile Tanks, maybe one more E-tank, and of course the Ice Beam. The thing is that only one more Missile Tank comes more or less free, so that would be the only one I pick up, and then I'd have to critical strike the 3 Omegas, unless I can restore missiles between them. I'd be forced to bomb the Queen a handful of times, since I'll lose 40 (?) missiles by killing the Metroid Infants. Well, I'm moving on at least. Edit: It's not that I found some badass style that I want to hide from you Alter, it's more that I just don't want people to go all "This and this and this and this can be improved" over 3, 4 new WIPs. If you want to see my work, let me know and I'll PM you a link.

Warp wrote: