I found an improvement on the recently updated Level 13 Non-Invincibility video. This new trick will cut off 11-12 time units, (94 frames, which is over 1.5 seconds saved) and show "1:37" on-screen. Here's a sneak preview!
Link to video
Here's the new miraculous Level 13 video. Every room was executed perfectly, and only 1 unlucky extra lag frame found in the room with the 2 chompers at the end of the long hallway. Fortunately, several lag frames were eliminated since the previous video, for a total of 96 frames saved. But since the game cannot see lag frame savings, there weren't enough game play savings to get that 12th time unit knocked off. So 685 is officially the best time unit count for this level, with password "MRK6+B9" confirming. Clock displays "1:37" for the first time ever!
96 frames of savings brings my Gate Thief #1 - 20 Levels Speedrun projection down to 83,970 frames = 23:17.198955.
For this Level 13 video, 5901 console frames = 98.18829 seconds. On the game clock, 685 time units = 96.70588 seconds, safely clear of the "1:37" mark displayed on-screen.
Gate Thief #1 - Level 13 - Non-Invincibility - "1:37"
Link to video
5901 console frames = 98.18829 seconds real-time.
685 time units = 96.70588 seconds game-time.
BOO-YAAA!!!
Here's a nice little surprise. I noticed a glaring inaccuracy in the level 12 route, and added a running jump after the Big Fall. This new recording is a 17 frame improvement, which brings the "20 levels" estimate down to 83,953 frames = 23:16.9160895.
You will notice that while the Select Menu is open, the game clock shows 119:31, which means the level timer is at "0:29." Unfortunately, the game does add an extra frame or 2 of game play between the closing of the Select Menu, and the popping up of the password box. So we would have had to find another frame or two of savings to secure the "0:29" on the password box. But there is no more time to be saved! This is the perfect route, and perfectly executed, so we are stuck with the "0:30" and 210 time units password.
Gate Thief #1 - Level 12 - 0:30 - 210 time units.
Link to video
1878 console frames = 31.248536838 seconds real time.
210 time units = 29.647 seconds game time.
Another big surprise today! After dozens of successful recordings of Level 20, I deemed 1690 frames to be the perfect estimate. With the TAS jumping improvement now, 1686. But there's this one pesky extra frame that loves to pop up at some random place throughout the level, for no reason at all, and really no way to prevent it. So 1686 almost never happens.
Well, something crazy happened. A beyond perfect run with 1685 happened today. The perfect run, with perfect TAS jumps, no pesky lag frame, and somehow, another frame saved.
So I think this is the fastest Level 20 will ever be beat. 1685 frames = 28.037158984 seconds. Theoretically, the normal Prince Sprite should be able to finish exactly the same time. But of course there are no practical ways to unlock Kill Button while retaining the original unmodified Sprite. So it's only a theory. Of course, an unofficial cheat video with Debug Mode might save one more frame, assuming Gate Thief generated some extra lag that would not happen to Normal Prince. But this is a very light level, so perhaps no extra lag anyway.
Of course the game clock does not function on level 20. You can manipulate the "Best Time" by jumping into the Princess's bedroom as quickly as possible after leaving Jaffar's arena, as the internal level timer will begin counting when you return to the hallway. Using the technique seen in this video, jumping forwards towards Jaffar during the arena battle should put you close enough to the bedroom for a quick jump to the finish line in less than 1 game clock second, which would show "0:00" on the "Best Times" table for Level 20 later. (Of course you have to keep the Select Menu open while the End Music plays, in order to keep the level timer below 1 second.)
The additional 5 frames saved here (from the previous estimate of 1690 frames) reduces my "20 Levels" estimate for Gate Thief #1 down to 83,948 frames = 23:16.83289.
Gate Thief #1 - Level 20 - 28.037 seconds.
Link to video
1685 console frames = 28.037158984 seconds real time.
no game clock on level 20.
Here's an improvement for Level 17. The Prince can pass each log trap with only 2 crouches, so this saved a time unit. Also, the Monster lags more with this Sprite Set, so there is no need for Game Clock manipulation with the Select Menu while the Monster is coming down the stairs. Here, he will attack immediately, because he reaches the bottom of the stairs after the music has advanced past the intro.
This is 1875 console frames, an improvement of 54 frames over my previous time.
07.31521017688 - 38.5138292245 = 31.1986190476193 = 1875 frames.
This improves the "all 20 levels" speedrun projection to 83,894 frames = 23:15.93437, and essentially makes up for my decision to do the safer 2-jump Fire Room in Level 11.
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 17 -- "0:30" -- 210 time units.
Link to video
1875 console frames = 31.198619 seconds.
210 time units = 29.647 game clock seconds.
WooHoo!!! This is a great victory. Massive improvements to Level 16 for the Gate Thief #1 sprite set. Better jumps at the beginning of the level, inclusion of the better Warp Bottle Grab, and perfect Boss Room Select Menu.
This is an improvement of 89 frames, which brings my "all 20 levels" projection down to 83,805 frames = 23:14.453477.
This video shows a total of 4,021 console frames, from first frame of level until first frame of select menu at end of level; this equals 66.9064785 seconds. The game clock was improved by 6 time units, now at 459 time units, which equals 64.8 seconds on the game clock. This time unit displays "1:04" on the clock, whereas the next unit, 460, will display "1:05."
I finally figured out how Challenger did the fast grab at the Warp Bottle. From the running jump, simply press Crouch + Special (R + A) as soon as the Prince touches the ground.
In the Boss Room, you will hear the sound of menu navigation while Select Menu is pulled up. This is when I press and hold Left on the D-Pad. After I exit the Select Menu, the game will continue to be paused if any other buttons are still being held. This allows for a much more responsive "un-pause" for a human, when you release the D-Pad after the Boss Music finishes.
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 16 -- "1:04" -- 459 time units.
Link to video
4021 console frames = 66.9064785 seconds in real time.
459 time units = 64.8 seconds on the game clock.
During speedrun practicing today, I accidentally beat my records on levels 8 and 18 by one time unit each. So I may try to record new videos for those, in 1080p 60 fps, since I believe each of those has previously been recorded in the less ideal 720p 30 fps format.
Also, while playing today, I used the GT1 alternate setup that does not create low garbage on the Best Times board, so I was able to show the lowest possible time for every level, with Gate Thief #1.
I made 2 pictures. The first picture shows all the lowest times with Non-Invincibility Routes. And the second picture shows improved times for levels 3 and 14, where Invincibility can be used to improve the time.
Worth noting, the records for levels 1 and 16 are at the maximum number of time units for that displayed second. Any worse, and the next second would be displayed.
Here's a list of the displayed times for Challenger's TAS, and how many "displayed game clock seconds" slower it is than the Gate Thief #1 displayed times.
01 -- 0:23 -- 001 second slower than Gate Thief #1.
02 -- 1:15 -- 008 seconds slower.
03 -- 1:32 -- 005 time units slower (same displayed time).
-------------– 002 seconds slower than INV.
04 -- 1:01 -- 009 seconds slower.
05 -- 1:35 -- 043 seconds slower.
06 -- 1:14 -- 029 seconds slower.
07 -- 1:29 -- 039 seconds slower.
08 -- 1:41 -- 027 seconds slower.
09 -- 1:00 -- 014 seconds slower.
10 -- 1:36 -- 014 seconds slower.
11 -- 1:05 -- 009 seconds slower.
12 -- 0:51 -- 021 seconds slower.
13 -- 2:54 -- 077 seconds slower.
14 -- 1:37 -- 040 seconds slower.
-------------– 041 seconds slower than INV.
15 -- 2:13 -- 102 seconds slower.
16 -- 1:27 -- 023 seconds slower.
17 -- 0:34 -- 004 seconds slower.
18 -- 3:07 -- 066 seconds slower.
19 -- 3:01 -- 106 seconds slower.
(real time)
20 -- 54.39375 -- 26.35659 seconds slower.
There are a few instances where Gate Thief #2 has even better times. It is possible to create a hybrid board with the best times from both Gate Thieves, because the setup for Gate Thief #2 does not create garbage or any overwrite on the Best Times board. So after I fill it with GT#1 records, I can reset to clear the sprite set (but retain the Best Times), and then do the GT#2 setup, and continue playing to update more records. So I may try to do that tomorrow, and post a picture of a hybrid board with all absolute best times.
For reference, here at the levels, and display times, for Gate Thief #2, where faster:
04 -- 0:49 -- 01 second faster than GT#1.
08 -- 1:11 -- 03 seconds faster than GT#1.
11 -- 0:55 -- 01 second faster than GT#1.
For GT#2, level 4 is an Invincibility Route. Non-Invincibility would be slower than GT#1. Also, this time unit for level 4 is 1 unit away from 0:48. I will do some more runs to see if it is possible, but it looks doubtful.
I reduced the size of the pictures to 800 wide, so they shouldn't be too big for the forum's mobile format.
Non-Invincibility:
Invincibility:
The optimal route for "all 20 levels" speedrun would create a slightly different Best Times board. Level 1 will display "0:23," because it will be identical to the TAS route, prior to unlocking Gate Thief & Kill Button. Levels 3 & 14 will reflect the non-invincibility times, shown above. And Level 20 will show "0:01," because too much time is wasted by repositioning the Prince to achieve the "0:00" time on the board.
I found about a 20 frame improvement for Level 12 today, with Gate Thief #1. The result brings the displayed clear time down to 0:29 on the game clock. I'm going to try to record a better video of it today.
Anyway, here's the hybrid best times board I promised. This picture includes the best possible displayed time for every level. After acquiring Gate Thief #1, and doing all of his best records, I reset the console, which clears the sprite corruption while preserving the current records on the board. Then I acquired Gate Thief #2, which does not cause any garbage or overwriting to occur on the best times board. Then I did GT#2's best levels (Levels 4, 8, and 11). I found it more convenient today to get the "0:22" on Level 1 with the normal Prince Sprite, although GT1 & GT2 are both perfectly capable of matching it.
I take great pleasure in knowing I'm the first person who's ever seen these particular numbers on this screen. Now you all can join me in enjoying this pretty picture!
Of course, these records are all confined to the rules of only using warp glitches, but not Game Genie Codes or Debug Code. Interestingly, there is a Game Genie Code for "No Gates." It does not help you climb through a gate from below, but it does let you run or jump through any gate at the same ground level as the prince, without any consideration for timing or spacing. It is an interesting exercise for the mind for me to imagine where an improvement might be made to the displayed game clock per level, if someone were to use the Game Genie Code instead of a Gate Thief.
Level 4 would definitely see a huge improvement, by being able to jump through the gate above the entrance room.
Levels 6, 7, and 9 might each allow for a 1 second improvement, but maybe not.
I can imagine level 11 might allow for 1 or 2 seconds, if there was a way to go through the first two gates while avoiding all of the spikes, for a quick turn-around from the upper hallway. I might be interested in exploring this.
Level 13 could definitely see some improvement. Given Gate Thief #1's unique skill set, he destroys all other versions of the Prince on Level 13, but there are also some limitations, most notably the two gates leading into Jaffar's Cage, and the gate leading to the conveyor belts. Definitely several seconds could be saved on this level.
Level 16 could see a small improvement at the gate before the Boss, but it's hard to say if it would be enough to save 1 second.
Level 18 could see a very small improvement, but not enough to save 1 second.
Level 19 could see a big improvement at the final gate, after the fight. This would essentially combine the skill sets of GT1 and the Fat Gate Thief, and may save 2 seconds. The difference between GT1 & Fate Gate Thief is 118 frames in the room after the fight, which is 2 full seconds on the game clock.
To summarize, Levels 4 and 13 would see giant improvements in displayed clock time with the Game Genie Code for "No Gates." Level 19 would see a 2 second improvement, and Level 11 might also see an improvement. Levels 6,7,9,16 might each give up a second. But I think the other levels will not give up any additional time by expanding the Prince's flexibility with gates.
I may be able to test my theory of level 16 directly, by using the Fat Gate Thief. I think he would be completely unencumbered by gates on this level, but I have never tried, since his relevance has been limited to the "Sub-9" speedrun, which begins with the Level 16 Checkpoint Warp. I haven't really bothered to test his full capabilities on Level 16 from the beginning of the level.
Edit: Fat Gate Thief can have a theoretically perfect gate setup on level 16 (comparable to Game Genie Code), for a 40 frame improvement, which is 5 time units. Unfortunately, Gate Thief #1 just crossed the threshold for 1:04, so 7 time units would be required to achieve 1:03, and that's not going to happen. So the Level 16 record is safe.
Edit: Fat Gate Thief can demonstrate the basic idea for Game Genie Code route on Level 11, via the upper hall, and save more than 1 second relative to the best GT routes. It would appear that given how close Gate Thief #2 is to 1:10, GGC will be able to produce 1:09. Very doubtful that another second could be saved on top of that, since there are no codes to avoid spikes and fire. However, there is another Game Genie Code which allows for infinite fall distance. Whereas invincibility mode requires landing near a wall to pop up, the GGC will allow you to land anywhere. So that code could be used to fall all the way down the pit, in the room before the chomper & gate. I may be able to sketch out a rough idea of that timing via emulator; I do not have a Game Genie for my console, where I do my official testing. Suffice it to say, Game Genie falling code could be used for a great improvement on level 11.
Edit: Fat Gate Thief (non-invincibility) is actually 1 time unit faster than GT2 on Level 4 INV. I'm not sure if it's good enough to change the clock. Time to make another video!
wow, it seems I underestimated Fat Gate Thief. Not only did he beat GT2 INV Level 4 by 2 time units to secure a "0:48" on the clock, but he also beat GT1 & GT2 by 3 time units on Level 6 to secure a "0:44" on the clock. On top of that, FGT broke the record on level 16 by 3 time units, although that level's displayed time will remain at "1:04."
After filling out the board with GT1 & GT2 records earlier today, I reset the console, and did the first half of the "Sub-9" route, to acquire Fat Gate Thief. This added high time garbage to levels 4-7, and 16-19. FGT was able to overwrite all of these, contributing better times for 4 and 6, as mentioned. And able to contribute matching times for levels 5, 7, and 16-19.
So here it is! Perhaps the ultimate Best Times board, without using Game Genie Codes. Only warp glitches!
GT2 contributed best times for Level 8 & 11.
FGT contributed best times for Levels 4 & 6.
GT1 contributed for the remainder of the levels, originally; with supplemental rewrites provided by FGT, as mentioned above.
After much difficulty, the game finally gave me a good level 12. I'm still not satisfied with the results. The best recording is at 1857 console frames, and also has the lowest time unit count, at 208, with "0:29" displayed on the clock. However, prior to this lucky recording, my best had been an alternate route, which yielded 1858 frames, and a worse time unit upon the clock, at 209, although still with "0:29" displayed.
The average "208" had been about 10 frames worse, which was the result of lots of lag. It took a long time to optimize things and get rid of the lag.
The problem is, that best "209" had an error, killing the skeleton boss 4 frames late. So theoretically, 1854 might be possible. But I absolutely cannot get anything near it again. So for now, it looks like the "208" @ 1857 is the best I'll be able to capture.
This is a 21 frame improvement over the recent level 12 update, and this will further improve the "all 20 levels" projection to 83,784 frames = 23:14.1040524.
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 12 -- "0:29"
Link to video
1857 console frames = 30.8991123 seconds real time.
208 time units = 29.3647 seconds on the game clock.
I got my Game Genie in the mail today, and tested the "No Gates" code. The last time I messed around with this code was on an emulator over a year ago, probably before I discovered Gate Thief. Now that I'm more well acquainted with these aspects of the game, I can say that using the "No Gates" code with "Normal" Prince Sprite effectively creates a hybrid between GT1 and Fat GT. This means on levels such as 19, where GT1 has the advantage in one area, while Fat GT has the advantage in a different area, using the "No Gates" code can effectively combine the better parts of each route for a superior hybrid route, and gain the time saves from both previous routes.
There are two limitations to the "No Gates" code. The first I've mentioned before: even with the code enabled, you cannot skip a gate by climbing up into it -- the Prince will still stop after the chin-up, and go back down. The second limitation has to do with the Sprite's hit box when standing still near a gate. If you are within a step of the gate, and standing still, you will not be able to start running to run through the gate. If you attempt to start running from that point, you will instead step up to the gate. So, if it is completely closed, from that position, you must do the double-turn trick, which I regularly employ with all Gate Thief sprites. Or you must do a standing-jump to jump through.
A third limitation is sprite-specific. If you are standing still near a gate that is closing but not yet fully closed, you can only run through if you additionally have the Gate Thief #2 or #3 sprites, where the hit box is 1 pixel high, and you will not collide with the gate. "Normal" Prince, and GT1 & Fat Gate Thief have a normal body hit box, and will step up to the gate if it has gone down past the head.
Therefore, for the absolute optimal setup across all levels, you must enable "No Gates" code, and use the GT#2 or #3 sprites. In my opinion, Gate Thief #3 may be the best sprite for this purpose, since it does not wobble around as much, causing fewer distractions to the eye. My setup for acquiring GT3 is somewhat unreliable, so I need to do some further testing. (The setup randomly gives you either GT3, or Static Sword, or Static Prince sprites. Sometimes it can take several attempts and resets before the game finally gives you GT3.)
An interesting note -- there are two places in the game where "No Gates" code is a weakness. The 3-level drop on level 4, where the gate pops you back up cannot be done, because you will not collide with the gate! Instead you will take damage and freeze, as if no gate was there to pop you up! Also, you cannot take advantage of the Invincibility Route on Level 14, because again, there is no gate collision to pop you back up after the big fall!
In both instances, a "No Fall" code would be necessary, but even then, the Prince will stand up slowly, as if rising from a crouch or 1-level fall, rather than immediately popping up from the gate collision.
For some reason, the well published "No Fall" code is not working on my Game Genie, so I'll have to do some more research tomorrow.
In the meantime, I've decided to record a few videos of "No Gates" code levels for fun. I've already recorded a "0:35" video for level 4, which I may post tomorrow.
ok, so I recorded a couple of fun Game Genie Code videos. For some reason, my setup doesn't work with multiple codes. So I did one video with the "No Gates" code, and one video with the "No Fall" code.
First, I did Level 4, with "No Gates" and the Invincibility Glitch from Level 8. If I could use both codes simultaneously, the "No Fall" code would allow for a quick fall in front of the gate where we do the gate drop trick near the end of the level. But without that code being available, the Invincibility Drop in the next room is almost as good. In fact, with "No Gates" active, (and without "No Falls"), the gate drop trick is impossible, since you need to be able to collide with the gate to pop back up. Without the gate collision, you take damage, and waste time being stunned.
This Level 4 with "No Gates" and "Invincibility" was completed in 249 time units, which displays 35 seconds on the game clock. This is a vast improvement on Fat Gate Thief's time, where 48 seconds is displayed.
For the second video, I played Level 11, using the "No Fall" code, which allows the Prince to fall from any height without taking damage or dying. Since the "No Gates" code could not also be used, I got the Gate Thief #2 sprite set, which is almost as fast. Combining these big falls with gate skipping abilities allowed for a pretty big improvement. This run was completed in 340 time units, with 48 seconds being displayed on the clock. Without the "No Falls" code, GT#2 can only manage to see 55 seconds on the clock at best.
Game Genie -- No Gates -- Level 4 -- 0:35
Link to video
"No Gates" code + Invincibility Glitch from Level 8.
249 time units = 35.15294 seconds on the game clock.
Game Genie -- No Fall -- Level 11 -- 0:48
Link to video
"No Fall" code + Gate Thief #2.
340 time units = 48.00000 seconds on the game clock.
Throughout the game, there are several small improvements to be made, but usually not more than a couple of seconds, given the layouts.
A few notables include "No Fall" on Level 12, where 4 seconds is saved; "No Gates" on Level 13, where 3 seconds is saved; and "No Fall" on Levels 14 and 19, where 2 seconds is saved on each.
Additionally, I think "No Fall" may be able to provide some slight improvement on the Level 3 Invincibility Route, but I haven't tested it yet.
On other levels, savings are pretty minimal, if any.
I just finished my first test run for GT#1 - All 20 Levels.
Unfortunately, I had a couple of deaths, so it's not official. But it gave me a good basis for seeing how long everything actually takes.
The synthesized run without death segments was about --
84,580 console frames (+796 over "best" projection).
8138 time units for Levels 01-19 (+48 over best records).
23:27.3489 real time. Safely under my original goal of 23:30.
So this is very encouraging. There were a few silly mistakes besides the deaths. So if I can tighten things up a little bit, and complete a run, I think something close to 23:25 is definitely a reasonable goal.
As I've said, the sum of all the best segments I've shared is 23:14.45, so averaging 0.5 seconds of errors per level will be a tall order, but maybe doable!
I'll be doing runs all week, so hopefully I'll finally get one ready to upload in the near future. I'm recording everything at 1080p @ 60 fps, so it will be possible to confirm console frame totals.
It's been a while since my last update. I've been doing runs, but Levels 11 and 13 have been stumbling blocks. The rest of the levels are getting very clean and sharp though, so I think when I finally do have a successful run, it'll be really low.
For fun, I made a new video today, which should be the lowest possible time for Level 1. Using Kill Button, and Challenger's 2016 TAS route, I got it down to 1,348 console frames = 22.4297271873 seconds in real time. The password shows 159 time units for the game clock, displaying "0:22." My previous record of 160, using the old SprintGod 2009 TAS route, also displayed "0:22" on-screen.
Level 1 - 0:22 - 159 time units - Kill Button.
Link to video
1,348 console frames = 22.4297271873 seconds, real time.
I found a slightly better setup for Gate Thief #1. It saves just over 2 full seconds, compared to the "better" setup. And saves more than 3 seconds compared to my alternate setup I've been using for speedrunning (which got rid of button scrambling and Best Time garbage numbers).
This new setup has the added benefit of also removing button scramble and Best Time garbage, so this is now the ultimate setup, and I will be implementing it in all speedruns hereafter.
I will upload a video shortly. In the meantime, I'll provide the stats here:
This new setup will reduce the "20 levels" projection by 190 frames. Additionally, this different setup seems to cause slightly less lag in level 2. I've calculated that it's approximately 23 frames saved. (A total of 213 frames saved.)
Thus, the new projection for a near-perfect "20 levels" run will be 83,571 console frames = 23:10.55988929525.
With this improvement, I am now supremely confident that I will be able to push very hard for a sub 23:20.
Edit 6/9/20: More slight improvements, and final video recorded. Will share data & video soon.
Edit 6/10/20: well, this is aggravating. The most recent round of improvements saved about 18 frames on the setup, but did not make any improvements on Lag in level 2. Whereas, the previous updated setup was 18 frames slower on the setup, but somehow saved about 18 frames of Lag. So, for now, they are the same. I have one other setup to test, it may save a little time on the setup, and lag. After I run the last round of tests and calculations, I guess I'll just have to see which one is easiest to perform consistently, if they all create roughly the same result. This Lag is so annoying!
UPDATE 6/11/20 --
I've mapped out the best combination, which should save another 30 frames on top of what I said above.
The basic setup remains the same:
- complete level 1, exit level 2, and restart level 1.
- by completing level 1, you have "visited" the room with the guard, which is step 1.
- step 2 is to do a "single-down" glitch at Hole #2.
The entire situation regarding lag on levels 1 & 2 hinges on step 2. The old approach caused button scramble and best time garbage. The newer approach corrected those issues, but still produced a lot of lag on level 2.
I discovered two new approaches, based on SprintGod's TAS, and Challenger's TAS. Using the Challenger TAS variation is preferred on step 3, with the "quad-up" glitch on Hole #2. But it cannot be used in step 2 for the "single-down" glitch, or else the level 2 lag is made worse.
As you will see in my upcoming video, I used Challenger's "tas" route to complete level 1, then the "new" approach based on SprintGod's TAS for the "single-down" glitch, and finally, the Challenger "tas" approach again for the "quad-up" glitch.
Thus, I call it the "Tas-New-Tas" approach, or TNT. I tested several combinations, to see which would maximize time savings and lag savings. I tried TTT, TNN, TNT, TNS, TTN, and TTS; and the winner is TNT by a long shot.
I'm going to take some time to do it properly, and record the best possible video, which will include a full run of Level 2, to document all lag. Once level 3 is begun, setup lag will no longer be an issue, and all subsequent lag will be a natural consequence of the Sprite Set. (Gate Thief #1 does create lag on its own in many situations, including a falling-jump while enemies and gates are moving.)
My target will be 5,210 - 5,214 frames for the setup (to begin level 2 with Gate Thief). Subsequently, another 18 frames of lag is expected to be saved on Level 2.
Overall, I'm hopeful to save 32 frames over the previous projection (83,571), bringing the new total down to 83,539 = 23:10.0274328635.
This is within 2 frames of a sub 23:10. As I have built several frames of level-to-level transition error into this projection, we can now safely confirm that this route could be done in less than 23:10. This leaves a very comfortable 10 second buffer for me to very aggressively pursue a sub 23:20.
It's been a while since I've contemplated all of the details of the projection, so I don't remember how much better a TAS could be. Unless a new trick is found though, I don't think there's enough room to allow a sub-23. Maybe pretty close to 23, but I don't think there's 10 seconds to save on performance.
maybe something like this:
23:03 -- TAS potential.
23:10 -- Human potential.
23:20 -- realistic human goal.
edit 6/14/20: regarding the "tas-new-tas" discussion above, the meaning behind all this is that these routes produce different spacing for the prince to approach the hole. the "tas" spacing allows the prince to do a clean ledge grab after the u-turn without making a wall collision sound. whereas, the "new" spacing doesn't go as far towards the hole. this spacing results in a different effect in the glitch, reducing lag; but it also causes a different sound, as the prince collides with the wall as he is falling down hole #2.
Since my last update, I devised a new route for the "new" portion (step 2, Single-Down Glitch); it is a variation of the Challenger TAS setup; instead of hitting the jump button at the edge to fall with a certain spacing, I do a full run off the ledge, to be a little further away, then turn and jump. This produces the exact same spacing as the "new" route, and is much simpler to perform.
So in practice now, all 3 passes of level 1 will look almost exactly the same, except on the 2nd pass (Single-Down), the Prince will not take the extra step off the ledge from the late jump button press.
I intend to record an official video of this tomorrow morning, now that everything is straight in my mind. I'll hopefully upload and share the video before work tomorrow night.
I recorded an interesting deviation from normal game play. Somehow the game decided to go full brightness 6 frames early on the Princess cut-scene, allowing an earlier pixelation pattern to be locked onscreen during fade-out. I have occasionally observed the game misbehaving by doing something early, so I am not convinced that this can be repeated with any consistency. If it could, I'm sure Challenger would have done so in his TAS. All of his cut-scenes throughout the 2016 TAS show a later pixelation pattern being locked onscreen during the fade-outs.
The end result is that this level-to-level transition took 6 frames less time than usual. So it would technically be an improvement if someone managed to do it during a speedrun or TAS. This leads to some questions about the game that I'm unable to test, since I'm unfamiliar with TAS tools.
The normal behavior is as follows:
3 frames front left column is white.
3 frames front right column is white.
3 frames front left column is white again.
3 frames back left column is white.
3 frames brightest setting, earliest input locks back left column on white.
first level of dimming on next frame (16th frame in animation sequence.)
This special instance I recorded shows the following:
First frame of animation sequence is drawn 1 frame earlier than usual.
3 frames front left column is white.
3 frames front right column is white.
1 frame front left column is white again.
3 frames brightest setting, earliest input locks front left column on white.
first level of dimming on next frame (11th frame in animation sequence.)
Animation sequence began 1 frame early, + brightest level starts 5 frames earlier in sequence = net 6 frames faster.
Ok! Finally recorded a great video sufficient for updating the projection.
"Sum of best" is about 12 frames better, but it's a lot of crazy stuff, so this video's official time will mark the new projection, regardless of possible minimal savings here and there. The main reason for letting it slide is that I took advantage of a serious attack on the level 2 door to exit early, before returning to level 1 to continue the setup. This buffer attack saved dozens of frames, and I can only do it about 50% of the time. It's hard anticipating the perfect frame to push select, while the screen is still black!
Anyway, the new projection for the "setup" is 5184 console frames from start of speedrun until start of level 2 with the Gate Thief Sprite activated.
The video I recorded also shows an immediate run of Level 2, sufficient to document all lag. Even though I had several mistakes on level 2, the time lost for each mistake is known, and can be removed from the calculation of lag.
Overall, over 200 frames have been saved on the setup, and over 50 frames of lag saved by creating an alternate approach to the glitches.
A calculated best level 2 from start until select menu is activated during "end of level music" is about 4,232 console frames, which includes the improved lag resulting from the setup.
Anyway, the updated projection for "all 20 levels" is 83,524 console frames = 23:09.777843911123, safely under the 23:10 mark.
I am running late for work right now, so I will upload and share the new setup video tonight!
This was a tough run! But having knocked 3 seconds off the projection, well worth the trouble!
Details in previous post, and youtube description.
NEW BEST SETUP FOR GATE THIEF #1:
edit: updated youtube link. had to reupload because of corrupt processing.
Link to video
a few posts ago, you can see the video I made on just level 1, with regular Prince beating the level in 0:22 with Kill Button (159 time units). As I noted in the youtube description, I realized that killing the guard created a lot of lag in the final room, as the exit door is opening.
I solved that lag issue with a very fun alternate approach to the guard room. New video tonight!
woohoo! Got it recorded. So this is the very fastest way to beat level 1, with Kill Button activated. By killing the guard while he is in his attack animation, his "death" is delayed, and somehow this prevents all of the grievous lag in the last room (some 28-29 lag frames).
With no lag in the final room, the new record here is 1,320 console frames exactly, counting from the time the TV finishes drawing the first frame of level 1, until the time the TV finishes drawing the first frame of the Select Menu being visible during the "End of Level" music.
Level 1 -- 1,320 console frame -- 159 time units -- 0:22.
Link to video
1,320 console frames = 21.9638278 seconds.
A couple of follow-ups.
In page 4 of this thread, xxNKxx linked to a TAS he made, where he did an un-prepped Hole #1 glitch to freeze the game and reset with Kill Button activated. He then proceeded to beat level 1 after the reset in about 1352 frames (first frame level 1 til first frame select menu). As I mentioned in the previous post, I've fixed the lag issue, and brought this version of level 1 down to 1320 frames.
Next, I've used the "Single Down" glitch from the new GT1 Setup to improve xxNKxx's total "kill button setup" (his included a reset) by about 5 seconds.
I'll make another video soon, to demonstrate the alternate "Single Down" route, which activates Kill Button with no Warping, no Freezing or resetting, and no Sprite Manipulation, so it is a better way to set up this idea xxNKxx had for a TAS with normal game play and no sprite manipulation, but with the added time save of Kill Button. -- I think the Moderators originally disqualified xxNKxx's TAS because of the freeze & reset, since there are better ways of implementing glitches. But for this exact TAS idea, my improvements form the basis for a legitimate run, if anyone would be interested in pursuing an alternate category (legal kill button, full game.)
Since I've saved about 5 seconds here (including no button scramble), xxNKxx's theoretical TAS projection would be down around 31:26.5, and there's probably more savings there, because I don't think he implemented everything from the Challenger TAS.
---------------------------
And don't worry! I'm not being distracted from my other endeavor, which is to regularly continue attempting a complete Gate Thief #1 run of all 20 levels in about 23:20. One of these days I'll get it done.
Unlike normal speedrunners, I see no benefit in submitting a bad run, and slowly improving it. In my opinion, each and every level in its own right is easy enough to deserve an error-free run. So I'm not going to complete a run with any major mistakes.
I forgot to account for lag in level 2. So the video I made today is only about 2 seconds faster than xxNKxx's tas thru the end of level 2. Some of this was my inaccuracies as well, so maybe there's a half second or whole second of improvements to be made. But anyway, the point is demonstrated with this video that you can quickly activate Kill Button without freeze, warp, or sprite manipulation.
From the beginning of the run until the end of level 2, this setup is a little over 2 seconds faster than xxNKxx's tas, so 124 console frames improved, despite lots of lag, and inaccurate play. However, from level 3 onward, this setup will have no negative effects for TAS potential, or speedrunning potential.
Also, you can see at the end of the video, my usual select menu navigation shows that this Single-Down Glitch does not scramble the buttons, and the Best Time garbage is all high enough to be overwritten with normal personal records. So overall, a very attractive setup for speedrunning!
EDIT: I'm going to redo this video later, because I used the slower "Single-Down" approach, as this was necessary to minimize lag for Gate Thief #1. However, I've since tested and found that the faster "Single-Down" approach offers basically the exact same amount of lag for the "Normal" Prince, and therefore, the slower approach is completely unnecessary. It appears that 16-20 frames can be saved by this alternate approach, and I should be able to save another 8-16 frames with better play on Level 2. This would account for more than 0.5 seconds saved. So I will work on it, and update you later.
Link to video
I've got a good working projection for this "Legal Kill Button" setup. I've cleaned up Level 2, and implemented the faster Single-Down segment. Sum of best segments is down to 02:04.884, which is a 187 frame improvement over the xxNKxx TAS (3.11154 seconds faster).
We're looking at about 8 frames saved with the better approach to the Single-Down glitch; and 40 frames saved with better play on Level 2; otherwise, there's probably another 16 frames to be saved with perfect play and menu execution throughout. It seems doubtful that I'll be able to record a run that reaches 3 full seconds better than xxNKxx's TAS, but I can probably get reasonably close. After all, this is just a demonstration of the route, so I don't need to kill myself trying for perfection. lol!
EDIT: To clarify, of course it would be faster to do the Warp 8 without freeze; the purpose of my method is to avoid Sprite Manipulation. A clean Warp 8, Exit, and Begin Level One with Kill Button would cause the entire speedrun to use the Prince with the corrupted sprite animation. My method is the fastest possible way to legally enable Kill Button while preserving all original animation.
I recorded a perfect run on Level 10 today for Gate Thief #1. This improved the game clock to 580 units; and the official console frame count to 4,801.
More details in the youtube description.
Link to video
I've been very busy lately, and not much time for working on my "all 20 levels" speedrun. But as I've had a little time here and there, I've been continuing to play individual levels, to make sure I don't get rusty, and I've had a few chances to update individual level videos when the route has been improved, and the video is in need of upgrading to 1080p 60 fps.
Since my last post here, when I shared the new Level 10 video, I've recorded new videos for levels 7, 8, 18, with recordings improving the frame count by 33, 23, and 24 frames respectively. So 80 frames saved is more than a second taken off the projection, which currently sits at 83,431 frames = 23:08.2303924.
With the way I've been playing, it seems I'm only losing about 6-8 seconds over the course of an entire 20 level run, when no major mistakes occur. So it would seem that something below 23:20 is very likely, whenever I finally do it.
In the meantime, the new videos for levels 7, 8, and 18 are linked below. I will make a couple of quick notes here:
For level 7, the main improvement was hitting the kill button immediate upon entry into the room with the Ghost. This cuts down on lag in the room, the same way I reduced lag by quickly killing the first guard at the beginning of the level.
For level 8, a different approach to the mid gate allowed for a quicker jump down the hole. You will notice while the Select Menu was up for the End of Level Music, the clock said 118:47 (-1:13). But the password box showed 1:14. This is because I was just 1 time unit short of getting a 1:13 displayed time. I'm not sure if I have the ability to save one more time unit. The only other save I can imagine is a quicker jump through the last gate, after waiting for it to open. Of course, if I jump too soon, I collide with the gate, so it's very risky. I don't know how much more time I can save there, but I can confirm that this time I was 1 animation frame faster than in the previous video, so that accounted for some of the improvement.
For Level 18, real time can be lost if you pause for too long during the Boss Music, and game time can be lost if you don't pause for long enough. It's all about feel, and I'm definitely getting good at it. But there's still a little bit of real time that could be saved over this recording, if I had unpaused just 1 animation frame sooner. Nevertheless, only about 1 in 10 best attempts gets below 863, so I think this excellent recording will be a good enough example for the route potential.
Edit: since this is the last post of Page 10, I'll stick the updated Level 15 video here as well. 96 frames saved optimizing select menu at boss, and 8 frames saved through improved execution of jumps. However, the game clock did not change, which is odd. 8 frames should be enough to change the password. so perhaps there was a mistake I didn't notice. But either way, saving 104 frames improves the "all 20 levels" projection significantly. Taking all 4 of these levels into account, the new projection is 23 minutes, and 6.4999 seconds. This means 23:15 may be within my grasp when I finally complete a full speedrun.
Edit: I'll add the updated Level 9 video here as well, since this post was made just a few days ago. Saved 39 frames over previous recording, which updates "All 20 Levels" projection to 83,288 console frames = 23:05.850977726996. The new Level 9 video is 3110 console frames = 51.7481094603179 seconds. I think I messed up the final jump, so there may be a possibility of saving a few more frames, if I try again. We'll see. Also of note, 2 time units were saved, enough to change the displayed game clock time to "45" seconds!
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 7 -- 0:50 -- 354 time units.
Link to video
3,026 console frames = 50.35041132698455889 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 8 -- 1:14 -- 523 time units.
Link to video
4,398 console frames = 73.179480838 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 18 -- 2:01 -- 862 time units.
Link to video
7,373 console frames = 122.681289726985 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 15 -- 0:31 -- 222 time units.
Link to video
2,514 console frames = 41.831108419 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 9 -- 0:45 -- 321 time units.
Link to video
3110 console frames = 51.7481094603179 seconds.
--
Happy Holidays, everyone! Whenever Christmas approaches, I think about Prince of Persia, since I first started digging into these glitches during the Christmas holiday in late 2018.
Invincibility:
The optimal route for "all 20 levels" speedrun would create a slightly different Best Times board. Level 1 will display "0:23," because it will be identical to the TAS route, prior to unlocking Gate Thief & Kill Button. Levels 3 & 14 will reflect the non-invincibility times, shown above. And Level 20 will show "0:01," because too much time is wasted by repositioning the Prince to achieve the "0:00" time on the board.
I take great pleasure in knowing I'm the first person who's ever seen these particular numbers on this screen. Now you all can join me in enjoying this pretty picture!
Of course, these records are all confined to the rules of only using warp glitches, but not Game Genie Codes or Debug Code. Interestingly, there is a Game Genie Code for "No Gates." It does not help you climb through a gate from below, but it does let you run or jump through any gate at the same ground level as the prince, without any consideration for timing or spacing. It is an interesting exercise for the mind for me to imagine where an improvement might be made to the displayed game clock per level, if someone were to use the Game Genie Code instead of a Gate Thief.
Level 4 would definitely see a huge improvement, by being able to jump through the gate above the entrance room.
Levels 6, 7, and 9 might each allow for a 1 second improvement, but maybe not.
I can imagine level 11 might allow for 1 or 2 seconds, if there was a way to go through the first two gates while avoiding all of the spikes, for a quick turn-around from the upper hallway. I might be interested in exploring this.
Level 13 could definitely see some improvement. Given Gate Thief #1's unique skill set, he destroys all other versions of the Prince on Level 13, but there are also some limitations, most notably the two gates leading into Jaffar's Cage, and the gate leading to the conveyor belts. Definitely several seconds could be saved on this level.
Level 16 could see a small improvement at the gate before the Boss, but it's hard to say if it would be enough to save 1 second.
Level 18 could see a very small improvement, but not enough to save 1 second.
Level 19 could see a big improvement at the final gate, after the fight. This would essentially combine the skill sets of GT1 and the Fat Gate Thief, and may save 2 seconds. The difference between GT1 & Fate Gate Thief is 118 frames in the room after the fight, which is 2 full seconds on the game clock.
To summarize, Levels 4 and 13 would see giant improvements in displayed clock time with the Game Genie Code for "No Gates." Level 19 would see a 2 second improvement, and Level 11 might also see an improvement. Levels 6,7,9,16 might each give up a second. But I think the other levels will not give up any additional time by expanding the Prince's flexibility with gates.
I may be able to test my theory of level 16 directly, by using the Fat Gate Thief. I think he would be completely unencumbered by gates on this level, but I have never tried, since his relevance has been limited to the "Sub-9" speedrun, which begins with the Level 16 Checkpoint Warp. I haven't really bothered to test his full capabilities on Level 16 from the beginning of the level.
Edit: Fat Gate Thief can have a theoretically perfect gate setup on level 16 (comparable to Game Genie Code), for a 40 frame improvement, which is 5 time units. Unfortunately, Gate Thief #1 just crossed the threshold for 1:04, so 7 time units would be required to achieve 1:03, and that's not going to happen. So the Level 16 record is safe.
Edit: Fat Gate Thief can demonstrate the basic idea for Game Genie Code route on Level 11, via the upper hall, and save more than 1 second relative to the best GT routes. It would appear that given how close Gate Thief #2 is to 1:10, GGC will be able to produce 1:09. Very doubtful that another second could be saved on top of that, since there are no codes to avoid spikes and fire. However, there is another Game Genie Code which allows for infinite fall distance. Whereas invincibility mode requires landing near a wall to pop up, the GGC will allow you to land anywhere. So that code could be used to fall all the way down the pit, in the room before the chomper & gate. I may be able to sketch out a rough idea of that timing via emulator; I do not have a Game Genie for my console, where I do my official testing. Suffice it to say, Game Genie falling code could be used for a great improvement on level 11.
Edit: Fat Gate Thief (non-invincibility) is actually 1 time unit faster than GT2 on Level 4 INV. I'm not sure if it's good enough to change the clock. Time to make another video!
