Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
I searched some memory addresses just for fun:
X-coordinate: 00FFD200
Y-coordinate: 00FFD202
X-sub-pixel: 00FF972E
Y-sub-pixel: 00FF9732
Also, here is the maximum running speed in pixels/frame for the different shoes:
Cloth boots: 1
Leather boots: 1.25
Ladder boots: 1.25
Marine boots: 1.5
Ceramic boots: 1.75
Pygmy boots: 1.75
Legend boots: 2
Hopefully someone finds this information useful someday.
I searched some memory addresses just for fun:
X-coordinate: 00FFD200
Y-coordinate: 00FFD202
X-sub-pixel: 00FF972E
Y-sub-pixel: 00FF9732
Also, here is the maximum running speed in pixels/frame for the different shoes:
Cloth boots: 1
Leather boots: 1.25
Ladder boots: 1.25
Marine boots: 1.5
Ceramic boots: 1.75
Pygmy boots: 1.75
Legend boots: 2
Hopefully someone finds this information useful someday.
Any known big improvements to the run Aqfaq? Any plans on ever redoing it? Any guesses on how much time could be shaved off?
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Thank you for asking, Fabian.
Fabian wrote:
Any known big improvements to the run Aqfaq?
Nothing big. These are the improvements I'm aware of:
- There may be a small mistake in the first boss fight.
- Jumping up the stairs in the tower is not quite optimal in my movie.
- In my movie, I jump over the enemies in the desert, but since the player is flashing, it is possible to walk through them by pressing D-pad down. For some reason it saves a few frames.
- It saves some time to use the damage boost trick with a skeleton to get inside the blocks in the cave that leads to the ice world.
- The hallways in the final level could possibly be improved by a few whole seconds with better luck manipulation, magic usage and laser dodging.
However, all of these improvements change the future randomness, which might produce other improvements or loss of time.
Any plans on ever redoing it?
I'm probably not redoing the run myself at any point. It is always good if the movie history has many different authors, because people think differently and find different tricks.
Any guesses on how much time could be shaved off?
It is hard to tell. I guess it could be anything from 5 seconds to 15 seconds, but who knows. Any improvement would look awesome in my eyes and it would be very entertaining to follow the progress of a new movie.
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
I went ahead and tried to find how the randomness works. I noticed that jumping sometimes affects the enemy behavior. I would not have understood it without watching RAM. Eventually, I found some really useful RAM addresses for enemy manipulation. I'll post them here, when I've studied them a bit further.
I tested recording from the beginning and saved 25 frames in the first few screens. But I also lost 26 frames, because I wanted to collect some gold. Hopefully these frames will be gained back later.
Together with sub-pixel optimization and better enemy manipulation, I was able to reach the first boss 20 frames faster than before. (It would be 46 frames, if I hadn't collected the extra money.) With less than a second saved in the first four minutes, the movie will not look much different, so I can't recommend watching it, but I'll post it here as a backup: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/858068076/wonderboyinmonsterworld-wip-backup.gmv
I'm not working on this actively, but I might continue recording it from time to time. The project has a high probability of not being completed, though, because running into any difficult problems might take my motivation away from it. The beginning was easy and fun to do anyway.
Well, I, for one, think it is cool that you keep coming back to the game (even if it takes the better part of a year ;) )
Although I do hope a run gets made eventually, I cannot say DO IT AND DO IT NOW, for I would not be able to do it myself :)
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Hey Aqfaq, have you ever thought about improving this one? I did some research and uncovered a few strategies that could possibly save significant time:
* Buy a Small Spear in Alsedo (80 GP) to double attack power for battles up to Gragg and Glagg.
* There's a hidden coin drop located to the left of the ladder, in the transitional screen, just before you descend into the Purapril Sewers. It can net you up to 50 extra GP, early on.
* Purchase the Ladder Boots upon entering Purapril. This can shorten some of the climbs during the Jungle Temple.
* Speaking of, skip the extra Heart piece in the Jungle Temple -- instead, go for the one in Alsedo Ocean along the way to obtaining the Pygmy Armor: http://www.gamefaqs.com/genesis/586607-wonder-boy-in-monster-world/faqs/52545 It looks to save time over the detour you take in the Temple.
* Look into collecting money to buy early Ceramic Boots. Especially in Alsedo Ocean, there's a few hidden chests that net almost 1,000 GP, each. Combined with manipulating money drops, you might be able to save enough without sacrificing time.
Finally, is there any way to obtain those Legend Boots? Unfortunately, it doesn't seem possible to catch up with the pulley after opening the chest.
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Hey Aqfaq, have you ever thought about improving this one?
I don't think I have the time/motivation to do it.
Buy a Small Spear in Alsedo (80 GP) to double attack power for battles up to Gragg and Glagg.
This is a great idea. For some reason I don't remember ever thinking about this possibility. Actually, I have probably neglected shopping in other places too, so buying stuff is definitely something that should be tested thoroughly.
hidden coin drop located to the left of the ladder, in the transitional screen
Yes, this will be useful if you can improve the route by buying more stuff.
Purchase the Ladder Boots upon entering Purapril. This can shorten some of the climbs during the Jungle Temple.
I believe this will not work. You also need to buy the health potion from the same shop, so money will be an issue. There is very little climbing in the temple, but collecting money for the boots will waste a lot of time. Anyway, it should be tested thoroughly.
skip the extra Heart piece in the Jungle Temple
I can't remember whether I tested it or not. Definitely worth a try.
Look into collecting money to buy early Ceramic Boots.
This is a good idea. The funny thing is that even though the route would look very different, it might end up saving only a few frames.
Finally, is there any way to obtain those Legend Boots?
I believe not. Maybe I have not tried enough?
By the way, here is the nicest trick I know that is not used in the current run. It should save a couple of seconds:
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Pretty slick trick! I wonder, could that also be used in the Jungle Temple?
I know the blocks begin to disappear as soon as Shion lands on them. However, if you can set those blocks up similar to how you had them in the Sewers, perhaps it could also work there?
Your TAS is high quality, btw. I tried to match your time in the beginning, but ended up getting stumped:p You definitely know the ins and outs of this game.
edit: Maybe here, too?
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Nice ideas again!
The first case will probably fail, because faster boots are required to run and slide deep into the 1-block hole. After Shion has slided into the hole, the enemy just gives the final push.
I believe the second case won't work, because pygmy Shion is only 1-block tall. When the trick is performed, it is the upper torso that gets stuck into the blocks.
There exists a 1-block hole near the left side of the pyramid. It would be a big shortcut, if there was a way to get enough speed for the slide:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/genesis/586607-wonder-boy-in-monster-world/faqs/52554
Random hint: If you can think of using the quake spell in some interesting locations, try it! I have tested using it in some places, but I may have missed other opportunities. For example, if you use it in an elevator just when the elevator starts moving downwards, the elevator will leave Shion hanging in the air.
I guess the same goes for "pause". I often forget to test the effects of pausing the game.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Aqfaq wrote:
There exists a 1-block hole near the left side of the pyramid. It would be a big shortcut, if there was a way to get enough speed for the slide:
Are you talking about that 1-block gap in the floor next to the leftmost blue door #9? Is it just a matter of running and and ducking quick enough to "trap" Shion underneath the blocks?
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Are you talking about that 1-block gap in the floor next to the leftmost blue door #9?
Yes.
Is it just a matter of running and ducking quick enough to "trap" Shion underneath the blocks?
Yes, but I'm not sure whether you need to also take damage from an enemy or not. I also can't remember whether I tested sliding into the hole with Legendary Boots.
I have tested this, and it will save about 2,000 frames, can it be hex edited in? simply go for the pygmy armor earlier, after getting return
ars4326 wrote:
* Look into collecting money to buy early Ceramic Boots. Especially in Alsedo Ocean, there's a few hidden chests that net almost 1,000 GP, each. Combined with manipulating money drops, you might be able to save enough without sacrificing time.
also don't forget the big fish gives big money bags, but has high hp. bags give a max of about 2000 gold, so you only need 2 to reach the 3780 needed
the marine boots used to complete the ice castle have a speed of 384 sub pixels, the ceramics are 448, but with all the ice I don't think it will save time, but should be tested
some frames may also have been lost with unnecessary jumping
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
2,000 frames already? That's encouraging!
So the ceramic boots are roughly 18% faster than the marine's... If combined with the money grabs in Alsedo Ocean, that would at least save the 7 seconds or so that it takes to buy them, after defeating Ice Bomber (in addition to the possible small savings made inside the Ice Palace). I still also think time would be saved from buying the Small Spear early on (2x attack power).
You know, I could definitely see a new run breaking sub-40 :)
edit: After re-watching again, here are estimates of where time could be saved with the Small Spear:
1) Purapril Sewers Guardian: 1.75 sec.
2) Tribal Warriors (Lilypad Jungle): 2 sec.
3) Gragg & Glagg: 16 sec. (Additionally, 1 Firestorm could be saved en-route to the boss, inflicting faster damage)
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
AndyD wrote:
can it be hex edited in?
Unfortunately, no. If I recall correctly, both the time and player position can affect monster movement patterns. Anyway, the run is so old that it would be much better to redo it from the beginning.
So I think I can say I have pretty much lost interest in this game. The length and rng is really punishing time wise. Make a small adjustment and it will require adjusting down the line in many cases.
If someone really wants to pick this up I would be willing to work with them if some time passes. But for now no longer.
Anywho, here are some things I found.
- Japanese version is faster. If you die you respawn at inn, unlike in the English version.
-Japanese version gives you more leeway with Elixirs. This means in the desert you can survive with one less heart than the English version. Make sure to hold down when taking constant damage like in deserts to avoid any knockback.
-Because of the above it MIGHT be faster to completely skip the underwater temple.
- There is a clip I found in falling blocks, I will put it in userfiles. It seems useless in the position I found it, but it might be useful elsewhere. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/62185639693467947https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXV_Jjhx06A&feature=youtu.be
-Getting stuck under the breakable blocks and then getting pushed is faster in some cases, but you will lose health flexibility. A user submitted an example video on SRC in their guide section. https://www.speedrun.com/wonder_boy_in_monster_world/guides
-The quick jump up before Maou is quick and dirty and does not screw anything up for whatever reason as per Aqfaq's note. But I do not want to submit a video that only has that as an improvement since that would be lazy and there are plenty of other improvements possible.
