(Link to video)
Submission Text Full Submission Page Publication Page
due to the recent submission of Donkey Kong Jr on A7800, I figured I would look to see if any other version of this game could be TASed. the one I could probably do easily is the Coleco vision one. I could not find the Adams computer version which apparently contains an extra level, and I'm not sure if bizhawk emulates it. so for now I did the original version.
Now for whatever reason, this version of the game has out of order levels. on a first playthrough, you play levels 1 and 4 from the NES versions, but once you beat level 4, you then play level 1, 2, then 4. It's unclear why this is the case, so I just decided to play two loops just to play the 2nd level.
I was able to determine that jumping is faster than normal walking, and I was also able to determine that RNG can be manipulated by pressing the jump button while climbing on vines. Some RNG behavior however I was unable to change, I don't mind if someone else wants to look into it.
CasualPokePlayer: Claiming for judging.
CasualPokePlayer: Replaced file with improved file, and trimmed input to the last unique level.
CasualPokePlayer: Execution seems sound, nothing obviously improvable.
Now this game is an has an interesting question on where its end is. The game's "loop" doesn't follow the NES versions as the submission text notes. Originally this submission did "two loops," however these "loops" were not actually using proper loop point. The actual loop the game goes through is level 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 3 -> 2 -> 1 -> 3 -> 2. This order can be found at offset 0x4FB of the ROM (and changing the data there will cause the loop to change).
It gets even more interesting! After a loop completion, the difficulty will increase by 1. This difficulty is capped to 5. Note the game gives the option of 1 to 4 for the starting difficulty here. This submission picks 4, so it would only need to complete the loop once before the hardest difficulty is unlocked (and obviously, it would need to complete the loop again for "completing" the game with the hardest difficulty).
Of course, as one can see, there's only 3 unique levels within this loop, all of which are completed after the 4th round (with the first level getting a repeat). Per our rules, an endless game such as this may end once all unique content is completed, which this submission satifies. Also per our rules, a future submission may be able obsolete this by simply completing the loop twice, as to reach a point where the game's difficulty cap is hit.
With that said, accepting.
despoa: Processing...

Show more

Hide
Posted: 6/27/2022 4:06 PM
(Edited: 8/2/2022 2:37 AM)
Quote
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15629
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #7562: EZGames69's Coleco Donkey Kong Jr. in 01:37.02
Posted: 7/5/2022 6:21 AM
(Edited: 8/2/2022 2:37 AM)
Quote
CasualPokePlayer
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (732)
Joined: 2/26/2020
Posts: 791
Location: California
Arcade TAS of 2023 TASer of 2021 Gameboy TASer of 2021 Rookie of 2020 Gameboy TASer of 2020 Lucky TAS of 2020
On the second level, you seem to wait for the enemy to pass before trying to put the final key in its lock. At a glance this makes sense, although raises some questions of RNG manip / overall planning. However, those questions are a bit moot here, as I tried to rush the key in the hole instead of waiting for the enemey, and that seems to work? This itself saves nearly a second, so I'm not sure why this wait is done? Is this some sort of RNG manipulation (saving enough time to justify the initial nearly 1 second timeloss)? Or was this just a mistake? The former seems a bit unlikely here, as the TAS seems to remain "synced" until the final level anyway?
Posted: 7/5/2022 12:42 PM
(Edited: 8/2/2022 2:37 AM)
Quote
EZGames69
He/They
Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (4469)
Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2765
DS TAS of 2023 SNES TASer of 2022 SNES TASer of 2021 SNES TAS of 2021 Exotic platforms TAS of 2021 TASer of 2020 SNES TASer of 2020 Sega TASer of 2020 TASer of 2019 Sega TASer of 2019 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018
What does the time save look like?
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Posted: 7/5/2022 6:03 PM
(Edited: 8/2/2022 2:37 AM)
Quote
CasualPokePlayer
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (732)
Joined: 2/26/2020
Posts: 791
Location: California
Arcade TAS of 2023 TASer of 2021 Gameboy TASer of 2021 Rookie of 2020 Gameboy TASer of 2020 Lucky TAS of 2020
EZGames69 wrote:
What does the time save look like?
As I stated, nearly 1 second (it's 57 frames). Although how much would be lost/gained due to different rng in the last level I can't tell without tasing that myself.
Posted: 7/6/2022 6:33 PM
(Edited: 8/2/2022 2:37 AM)
Quote
slamo
Reviewer, Expert player (2438)
Joined: 5/21/2013
Posts: 414
DS TAS of 2022 Computer TASer of 2016 Computer TAS of 2016 Computer TASer of 2013 Computer TAS of 2013
I talked with EZGames a bit about this but I'll also put it here: The order of the levels is just bizarre in this game. In the longplay, the level order goes 1 - 2 - 1 - 3 - 2 - 1 - 3 - 2 - 1 - 2 - 1, which has no pattern at all. I'm not sure what would be considered a "loop".
Posted: 7/7/2022 5:36 AM
(Edited: 8/2/2022 2:37 AM)
Quote
CasualPokePlayer
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (732)
Joined: 2/26/2020
Posts: 791
Location: California
Arcade TAS of 2023 TASer of 2021 Gameboy TASer of 2021 Rookie of 2020 Gameboy TASer of 2020 Lucky TAS of 2020
Looking at the code, seems that it uses a 8 round loop, going 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 3 -> 2 -> 1 -> 3 -> 2. The lookup table used for this loop can be found in the ROM file at offset 0x4FB (and changing it will subsequently change level order).
Posted: 7/7/2022 6:25 AM
(Edited: 8/2/2022 2:37 AM)
Quote
Fortranm
He/Him
Editor, Experienced player (879)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1122
The situation is similar in Donkey Kong on Coleco and [3886] Coleco Donkey Kong by Fortranm in 00:44.19 just completes each unique level once. I think it might make more sense for this movie to just end after 1 -> 2 -> 1 -> 3 since completing the level with cage and keys doesn't seem to give much of a cutscene in this version.
Posted: 7/7/2022 7:28 AM
(Edited: 8/2/2022 2:37 AM)
Quote
CasualPokePlayer
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (732)
Joined: 2/26/2020
Posts: 791
Location: California
Arcade TAS of 2023 TASer of 2021 Gameboy TASer of 2021 Rookie of 2020 Gameboy TASer of 2020 Lucky TAS of 2020
Doing some more research into this game, there seems to be some extra code ran in case a loop occurs, here's the subroutine responsible for that 
Language: asm
8503: DD 7E 06     LD A, (IX+06h)             AF:0054 BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485784 cnP-H-Zse
8506: DD BE 02     CP (IX+02h)                AF:0154 BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485803 cnP-H-Zse
8509: C8           RET Z                      AF:019B BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485822 CNp3H-zSe
850A: 3A 8E 72     LD A, (728Eh)              AF:019B BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485827 CNp3H-zSe
850D: FE 02        CP 02h                     AF:019B BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485840 CNp3H-zSe
850F: 28 26        JR Z, +26h                 AF:0193 BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485847 CNp-H-zSe
8511: DD 7E 02     LD A, (IX+02h)             AF:0193 BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485854 CNp-H-zSe
8514: DD 77 06     LD (IX+06h), A             AF:0993 BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485873 CNp-H-zSe
8517: 3D           DEC A                      AF:0993 BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485892 CNp-H-zSe
8518: 28 1D        JR Z, +1Dh                 AF:080B BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485896 CNp3h-zse
851A: 3A 84 72     LD A, (7284h)              AF:080B BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485903 CNp3h-zse
851D: 06 03        LD B, 03h                  AF:040B BC:0000 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485916 CNp3h-zse
851F: FE 01        CP 01h                     AF:040B BC:0300 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485923 CNp3h-zse
8521: 28 08        JR Z, +08h                 AF:0402 BC:0300 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485930 cNp-h-zse
8523: 06 04        LD B, 04h                  AF:0402 BC:0300 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485937 cNp-h-zse
8525: FE 04        CP 04h                     AF:0402 BC:0400 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485944 cNp-h-zse
8527: 38 02        JR C, +02h                 AF:0442 BC:0400 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485951 cNp-h-Zse
8529: 06 05        LD B, 05h                  AF:0442 BC:0400 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485958 cNp-h-Zse
852B: DD 7E 03     LD A, (IX+03h)             AF:0442 BC:0500 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485965 cNp-h-Zse
852E: B8           CP B                       AF:0442 BC:0500 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485984 cNp-h-Zse
852F: 30 06        JR NC, +06h                AF:0493 BC:0500 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485988 CNp-H-zSe
8531: DD 34 03     INC (IX+03h)               AF:0493 BC:0500 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124485995 CNp-H-zSe
8534: DD 34 04     INC (IX+04h)               AF:0401 BC:0500 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124486018 Cnp-h-zse
8537: AF           XOR A                      AF:0401 BC:0500 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124486041 Cnp-h-zse
8538: C9           RET                        AF:0044 BC:0500 DE:0003 HL:72E6 IX:7291 IY:729E SP:73BA Cy:124486045 cnP-h-Zse
Most of this is fluff, the main prize is at the end where some counters are maybe incremented. 0x7293 contains the difficulty counter (this can be seen easily as you are given the choice of starting at 1 to 4 for difficulty before the game begins). Another prize is the final check for aborting doing these increments: the difficulty increase is aborted if the difficulty counter is >= 5, thereby capping the difficulty to 5. I suppose this means that a single "loop" in terms of game logic is 8 rounds. Assuming the TAS starts on difficulty 4, it would need to do a second loop for the "hardest" difficulty, after which the game will forever loop with the same difficulty. I suppose given this, there are three options a TAS could go for: 1. Do all unique levels (so 4 rounds). 2. Do 1 full loop (so 8 rounds). 3. Play until difficulty stops increasing (so 16 rounds). 1 is enough for publication here, 3 would obsolete, not sure about 2 (this is an odd case not clearly defined by the rules). This current submission doesn't fit these however as it opts to do a "second loop" and doing a 5th round as a result (in reality, this is a partial loop of course). So it could be trimmed to the 4th round, or opt to do the 2nd/3rd options here.
Posted: 7/7/2022 2:56 PM
(Edited: 8/2/2022 2:37 AM)
Quote
EZGames69
He/They
Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (4469)
Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2765
DS TAS of 2023 SNES TASer of 2022 SNES TASer of 2021 SNES TAS of 2021 Exotic platforms TAS of 2021 TASer of 2020 SNES TASer of 2020 Sega TASer of 2020 TASer of 2019 Sega TASer of 2019 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018
I think for this submission I would be more willing to do the 1st option since that’s the closest option my submission was going for. And since the improvements that were mentioned above desync in the final level that would be trimmed off, that would make things easier for us. I will be fixing the movie file when I have the chance but I’m currently on the road, so it might be a few days, unless I find time today to use my computer.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Posted: 7/10/2022 11:41 PM
(Edited: 8/2/2022 2:37 AM)
Quote
EZGames69
He/They
Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (4469)
Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2765
DS TAS of 2023 SNES TASer of 2022 SNES TASer of 2021 SNES TAS of 2021 Exotic platforms TAS of 2021 TASer of 2020 SNES TASer of 2020 Sega TASer of 2020 TASer of 2019 Sega TASer of 2019 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018
I have improved the movie by doing the time save pointed out by CasualPokePlayer, and even though it's likely the final level will be removed, I did manage to get more favorable rng out of this new attempt. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/637930932401236014
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Posted: 8/2/2022 2:37 AM
Post subject: Movie published
Quote
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15629
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4788] Coleco Donkey Kong Jr. by EZGames69 in 01:37.02