This submission improves ShesChardcore's run, achieving the best ending faster.

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: BizHawk 2.8.0
  • best ending
Note: this game depends on an uninitialized RAM state, and the optimal TAS solution varies for different platforms (GB/GBC/GBA). I will describe the details later. I chose GBA-mode for console verification purpose. Thanks to ViGadeomes for resyncing the original GB-mode movie.

Comments

To achieve the best ending, you have to earn $5,963,776. For this purpose, it will be fastest to get a jackpot (about $5,000,000) of $5 slot machine twice. (It is a little slower to use a jackpot (about $1,000,000) of $1 slot machine)
The RNG of this game is frame-dependant, and it converts frame counter into random number. The reel value of a slot machine is determined by the timing which you operate (insert coin and pull the arm) the slot machine. In conclusion, you can get black seven if you operate when the frame counter is 0x0A, 0x4B, 0x6A, or 0xA8. This follows from the tables below:
The route of cursor movement is important, because the screen starts to scroll after you move cursor to the same direction for a while. In this run, I did the first slot machine operation just in time.
I put some useful memory (logical) addresses:
addressdescription
$C0C0frame counter
$C0C4-$C0C7random number buffer
$C0C8-$C0CBreel values of slot machine
$C0D7whether the condition of the best ending is fulfilled
$C0D8money ($25600 units)
$C0D9money ($100 units)
$C0DAmoney ($10 units)
$C0DBmoney ($5 units)
$C0DCmoney ($1 units)
$C0DEmoney (u24le)
$C0F5screen scroll x
$C0F6screen scroll y
$C0F9cursor x
$C0FAcursor y
The frame counter ($C0C0) is not initialized on a boot, and its initial value varies for different platforms (GB/GBC/GBA). So, the optimal TAS solution also varies for different platforms (GBC/GBA movies are thanks to ViGadeomes):

Other Comments

The number 5963776 is 0x5B0000 in hex. But I'm not sure where the number comes from. "5963" seems to be the pun on a Japanese word "ご苦労さん", but it might be just an accidental coincidence. ("ご苦労さん" means "Thanks for your hard work" with a bit of sarcasm)

feos: Claiming for judging.
feos: Replacing with a GBA mode resync, for console verification, and adding ViGadeomes to authors, per agreement.
feos: The fact that optimal memory values depend on uninitialized RAM is not a problem as long as you don't edit the initial startup state arbitrarily. Even though console startup states are not fully deterministic, they are not completely random and depend on certain hardware world factors.
When it comes to emulation, we can simulate some real-world hardware factors, but in TASing we can't afford non-determinism. So most emulators enforce a startup state that makes overwhelming majority of games work correctly, even if there's no real-world precedent for that exact state. There are emulators that can be configured to replicate actual device startup states more precisely than usual, and it's mostly fine to use those explicit options. Because even if they are not absolutely accurate, they are very compatible, and on top of that, they guarantee even chances for a speed competition.
Even then, the core used in all 3 movies does not provide options for tweaking the startup state, and using emulator defaults in that regard is 100% legitimate for all our needs.
Accepting as an improvement over [4960] GB Caesars Palace "best ending" by ShesChardcore in 00:54.42 in both gameplay time and the ending.
feos: Restored judgment text that got lost to concurrent editing.

despoa: Processing...
feos: Added original movie's rerecord count.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15581
Location: 127.0.0.1
LoganTheTASer
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 7/3/2022
Posts: 463
Location: Berkshire, UK
nice research. yes vote. when this gets published chard will have her first obsoleted movie
YouTube: @LoganL2008 Discord: sneakers_o_toole Watch my TASes here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmcAd4CTuEymf4qWKIE0Pv_NlA031cYR1&si=m1hP9qz9c8Ip35Ur
ShesChardcore
She/Her
Skilled player (1592)
Joined: 2/23/2022
Posts: 132
Location: MN
Thank you for doing this, TaoTao. We (the RTA runners of Caesars Palace) never knew anything higher than the sportscar existed on GB so we just considered it the best ending. After I made the TAS it was brought up that there was a run on Nico (yours) showing what the best ending truly was. No such extra ending exists in the NES version so it blew our minds, haha. This is fitting for my first obsoleted run: The run that wasn't worthy enough to begin with.
Post subject: Little question.
ViGadeomes
He/Him
Judge, Active player (311)
Joined: 10/16/2017
Posts: 461
Location: France
TaoTao wrote:
For this purpose, it will be fastest to get a jackpot (about $5,000,000) of $5 slot machine twice. (It is a little slower to use a jackpot (about $1,000,000) of $1 slot machine)
Hello TaoTao, this is a very nice improvement to begin with ! Could you elaborate a little more on this point ? I can't link the reel value to the jackpot on the $1 slot machine. I was able to get a different & better starting value for the frame counter by using the GBC mode and been able to save some frames & would like to test the $1 slot machine route just to be sure. Then I'll post my Review ! Thanks in advance.
Experienced player (941)
Joined: 9/18/2008
Posts: 153
Location: Japan
ViGadeomes wrote:
Hello TaoTao, this is a very nice improvement to begin with ! Could you elaborate a little more on this point ? I can't link the reel value to the jackpot on the $1 slot machine. I was able to get a different & better starting value for the frame counter by using the GBC mode and been able to save some frames & would like to test the $1 slot machine route just to be sure. Then I'll post my Review ! Thanks in advance.
Hello ViGadeomes, thank you for your review. I uploaded a movie which gets a jackpot on the $1 slot machine. Please play it watching WRAM address $C0 (frame counter. CPU logical address is $C0C0). As you see, you have to wait until the frame counter reaches 0x6A anyway, at least on GB mode. (Actually, you have to press button when the frame counter is 0x69) And, my movie also starts to operate the $5 slot machine when the frame counter reaches 0x6A. Moreover, in my movie, the first operation of the second jackpot starts without waiting frames. Therefore, I think you cannot save any frame using the $1 slot machine. But I'm not an expert of GB/GBC hardware, so I'll wait your review.
ViGadeomes
He/Him
Judge, Active player (311)
Joined: 10/16/2017
Posts: 461
Location: France
TaoTao wrote:
Hello ViGadeomes, thank you for your review. I uploaded a movie which gets a jackpot on the $1 slot machine. Please play it watching WRAM address $C0 (frame counter. CPU logical address is $C0C0). As you see, you have to wait until the frame counter reaches 0x6A anyway, at least on GB mode. (Actually, you have to press button when the frame counter is 0x69) And, my movie also starts to operate the $5 slot machine when the frame counter reaches 0x6A. Moreover, in my movie, the first operation of the second jackpot starts without waiting frames. Therefore, I think you cannot save any frame using the $1 slot machine. But I'm not an expert of GB/GBC hardware, so I'll wait your review.
Thank you very much !
ViGadeomes
He/Him
Judge, Active player (311)
Joined: 10/16/2017
Posts: 461
Location: France
The improvement is big compared to the previous run thanks to the new strat and I wasn't able to improve the run in its current form. It makes it a solid 1679 frames improvement compared to the previous TAS (as a note the previous run doesn't press the last input to get to the "Leaving Las Vegas" screen while this one does). The very detailed explanation of how the RNG works makes it very eazy to verify which is appreciated ! I first tried to convert the movie in GBA mode to make the run console verified one day. Sadly, the TAS was desyncing due to the initial frame counter value beeing different because of the uninitialized RAM (00 in GB mode, 50 in GBA mode & 7F in GBC mode). The GBC mode was the best initial value which saved 31 frames gameplay-wise (not counting BIOS time differences) thanks to the different RNG. I also tried the $1 slot route on the 3 modes thanks to the extra informations TaoTao gave me but it wasn't worth it.
Experienced player (941)
Joined: 9/18/2008
Posts: 153
Location: Japan
ViGadeomes wrote:
The improvement is big compared to the previous run thanks to the new strat and I wasn't able to improve the run in its current form. It makes it a solid 1679 frames improvement compared to the previous TAS (as a note the previous run doesn't press the last input to get to the "Leaving Las Vegas" screen while this one does). The very detailed explanation of how the RNG works makes it very eazy to verify which is appreciated ! I first tried to convert the movie in GBA mode to make the run console verified one day. Sadly, the TAS was desyncing due to the initial frame counter value beeing different because of the uninitialized RAM (00 in GB mode, 50 in GBA mode & 7F in GBC mode). The GBC mode was the best initial value which saved 31 frames gameplay-wise (not counting BIOS time differences) thanks to the different RNG. I also tried the $1 slot route on the 3 modes thanks to the extra informations TaoTao gave me but it wasn't worth it.
Thank you, ViGadeomes! I didn't notice that the frame counter depends on the uninitialized RAM. Nice review. I confirmed that ViGadeomes' GBC-mode movie is faster than my GB-mode movie by 31 frames gameplay-wise. But, I'm not sure whether I should replace my movie with the GBC-mode one. Are the uninitialized RAM states are the same as on real consoles? If not, it will be an issue of emulator implementations. Personally, I want to submit my movie in GB mode, because I think this game would be mainly targeted to GB platform. (This game was released in 1991) For the movie endpoint, I decided to get to the "Leaving Las Vegas" screen. Because, unlike the NES version, the game doesn't automatically proceed to it. I think I have to show all the ending contents in my movie (even if most of them are shown only for a few frames). Any thoughts?
ViGadeomes
He/Him
Judge, Active player (311)
Joined: 10/16/2017
Posts: 461
Location: France
TaoTao wrote:
But, I'm not sure whether I should replace my movie with the GBC-mode one. Are the uninitialized RAM states are the same as on real consoles? If not, it will be an issue of emulator implementations.
The unitialized RAM states are effectively the same as on real consoles, the GB/C emulation is very very good and CasualPokePlayer confirmed me that the uninit RAM has no emulation problems when I asked him to be sure.
TaoTao wrote:
Personally, I want to submit my movie in GB mode, because I think this game would be mainly targeted to GB platform. (This game was released in 1991)
I completely understand your point but as the Movie Rules says :
Movie Rules wrote:
You are not allowed to run a console game in an unintended environment, including modifying emulator settings for unintended speed advantages. * Backwards compatibility modes, such as running Game Boy games in Game Boy Advance mode, are allowed if a physical console (or the game) supports it, unless there are noticeable audio, video, and/or gameplay-affecting glitches.
it is actually possible on a real GBC to play this game and it doesn't seem to have any noticeable audio, video or gameplay-affecting glitches, so I think it makes it allowable in this mode. I could be wrong tho. This point is this way to let people choose the best official platform that officialy support games from other platforms to play on. Anyway, I don't feel this improvement totally fair and I can ask to not be credited as co-author even with my improvement replacement over your version if you don't accept it.
TaoTao wrote:
For the movie endpoint, I decided to get to the "Leaving Las Vegas" screen. Because, unlike the NES version, the game doesn't automatically proceed to it. I think I have to show all the ending contents in my movie (even if most of them are shown only for a few frames).
Yes, I didn't point this out but it makes your movie "more complete" than the previous version and also to point out the improvement calculation difference if you don't take this into account.
TaoTao wrote:
Any thoughts?
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts !
Experienced player (941)
Joined: 9/18/2008
Posts: 153
Location: Japan
ViGadeomes wrote:
The unitialized RAM states are effectively the same as on real consoles, the GB/C emulation is very very good and CasualPokePlayer confirmed me that the uninit RAM has no emulation problems when I asked him to be sure.
Thank you for the information. It is interesting to me, since I heard that the uninit RAM states of some platforms (e.g. NES) are non-deterministic on real consoles. I understand that there is no technical problem to change this run to GBC-mode.
ViGadeomes wrote:
it is actually possible on a real GBC to play this game and it doesn't seem to have any noticeable audio, video or gameplay-affecting glitches, so I think it makes it allowable in this mode. I could be wrong tho. This point is this way to let people choose the best official platform that officialy support games from other platforms to play on. Anyway, I don't feel this improvement totally fair and I can ask to not be credited as co-author even with my improvement replacement over your version if you don't accept it.
Okay, I understand that the site rules allow the platform change. I looked at the list of GB publications, and I noticed that some of them use GBA-mode for console-verification. Thus, if I change the platform, it might cause another discussion about the purpose of the platform change (to save frames? or to enable console-verification?). And, I don't have enough knowledge to answer that. So for now, I will keep this movie in GB-mode and just avoid the discussion above. However, if a judge or other people give me advice on this issue, it might change my mind. Anyway, it is a useful knowledge that the frame counter depends on an uninit RAM and that the optimal TAS solution varies for platforms. So, I will add this knowledge to the submission text. Thanks again for your review!
Post subject: GBA mode version for console verification (kinda)
ViGadeomes
He/Him
Judge, Active player (311)
Joined: 10/16/2017
Posts: 461
Location: France
Because I did it at the same time, here is the fastest version of this movie in GBA mode to enable console verification, it is even worst than both other modes but I figured out it would be interesting to have it as well: User movie #638097364122315863. If this movie was played back on console, it wouldn't be counted as a console verification for both other modes as the inputs are not only resynced to count with load differences but inputs are modified due to different RNG.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Thanks for all the help, ViGadeomes! All 3 movies have value. The GB version is the original most basic one, GBC has the shortest gameplay, and GBA is console verifiable.
ModeStartupGameplayOverall
GB62810491686
GBC48010181507
GBA49410651568
I personally lean towards preferring the console verification aspect. EDIT: If we're going to replace the movie with either resync, ViGadeomes's name may make sense to add to authors, due to research and work he contributed to this project. TaoTao, what do you think?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced player (941)
Joined: 9/18/2008
Posts: 153
Location: Japan
feos wrote:
Thanks for all the help, ViGadeomes! All 3 movies have value. The GB version is the original most basic one, GBC has the shortest gameplay, and GBA is console verifiable.
ModeStartupGameplayOverall
GB62810491686
GBC48010181507
GBA49410651568
I personally lean towards preferring the console verification aspect. EDIT: If we're going to replace the movie with either resync, ViGadeomes's name may make sense to add to authors, due to research and work he contributed to this project. TaoTao, what do you think?
I reconsidered about the three platform options, and I think the GBA version is the best. Because it adds the most essential value (console-verifiability). If there is no problem, please replace my movie with the GBA version. And, I agree that ViGadeomes should be added to the author list. If the movie is replaced, I will modify the submission text according to it.
Experienced player (941)
Joined: 9/18/2008
Posts: 153
Location: Japan
feos, Thank you for replacing the movie. I modified the submission text according to the movie replacement.
Emulator Coder, Judge, Experienced player (729)
Joined: 2/26/2020
Posts: 783
Location: California
As a note for the judgement: Gambatte's initial RAM is a direct copy from a dump of uninit RAM from a console at some point, which thereby gives it absolute "legitimacy" (as they did happen on a console at some point, ergo they can happen on a console). I can't say what other emus do, although even then they can be consider legitimate here too.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15581
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [5081] GB Caesars Palace "best ending" by TaoTao & ViGadeomes in 00:25.95