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Posted: 5/31/2005 8:18 PM
Post subject: Mega Man IV (4 (Four))
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
I had been working on a showmehowitsdonerun of this game starting with PharaohMan's stage, but I just realized that I may need to redo some of it because I didn't discover until very late in the level that I could stop a slide early by pressing Up. (I always thought you had to jump to break out of a slide.) So I could probably speed up a few of the mummies that way. Regardless, this might be a good time to start planning for the entire game. I know there are a lot of secret passages in this game, but I have trouble finding them; I'll often see the tail end of one of those alternate paths after it's too late to take it, or I'll just find a dead end with an extra life. And all the guides I've found mostly just discuss worthless boss strategies. So if anyone has any good ideas, feel free to post them.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 5/31/2005 8:51 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Oh, and I need to decide whether to collect the Beat parts. Is there anywhere that Beat is extremely useful?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/1/2005 7:56 PM
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Kholdstare
Joined: 6/1/2005
Posts: 44
Location: MS US
Hey. I have decided to join the forums after just reading them for... I don't know. Before SNES movies were put on the main page. I have a lot of experience with this game, and I was planning a run of this myself, so hopefullly I'll be able to help some. Skip Beat completely. Right now I can't think of a place in the game where it would be faster in a time attack. I haven't tested it yet, but I don't think Rush Coil will help at all in the first 4 stages since it takes a lot of time to go into the menu then use it. If I'm right, then the order of the first 4 bosses should go normally. There aren't any alternate paths in the first four stages.
Posted: 6/2/2005 1:44 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Right. So should I follow the NES counterpart's run and start with Pharaoh Man in the final movie? It does waste 42 frames on the select screen, but that's probably nothing compared to what a good order will save.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/2/2005 1:55 AM
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4matsy
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 498
Yeah, sounds like using Pharaoh Man's weakness takes more time than not using it, since you can't charge your buster when you have the Flash Stopper on... Also, I believe Napalm Man has a weakness to Pharaoh Shot...might be best to start with him when you get to the second group of four.
Posted: 6/2/2005 3:22 AM
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Nsm
Joined: 5/26/2004
Posts: 39
You can use The Rush Coil in Bright Man's stage, when you need pass the spikes fastly, use Rush Coil, Start-Start,than use Rush Coil again :) I made an WIP version, but my run is very bad comparing your Pharaoh run hehe, The best way in my opinion is Pharaoh,Ring,Toad,Bright(Rush Coil),Charge(Rush Jet),Crystal,Napalm,Stone Man. Getting Beat parts is not useful... http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/nissimmiojo/megaman4.zip my run stops in Bright Man's Stage...
Posted: 6/2/2005 4:36 AM
(Edited: 6/2/2005 8:45 PM)
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Kholdstare
Joined: 6/1/2005
Posts: 44
Location: MS US
Nsm wrote:
You can use The Rush Coil in Bright Man's stage, when you need pass the spikes fastly, use Rush Coil, Start-Start,than use Rush Coil again :)
This won't work because Rush Coil is placed right in front of Megaman, meaning that he will have to be at the end of his jump for it to be of use, but Rush Coil doesn't travel fast enough to the ground before Megaman hits the spikes. At the end of the room it is possible to use once, but I'm not sure if it's faster because vertical height isn't a problem here, it's the horizontal distance. It needs to be tested. Edit: I forgot to mention. When I was testing, I found out in Toad Man's Stage that you can skip the first snail boss completely (shown in Nsm's movie) and the Pharoah Shot can be used on the birds to prevent lag. Edit 2: Dr. Wily's Stage: Pharoah Shot is the strongest weapon against the satellite. The Mega Buster is stronger against Ballade than the Pharoah Shot. However, the difference is so small it might just be faster to stay with Pharoah Shot so you don't have to switch again. Napalm Man: Pharoah Shot kills Napalm Man in 3 charged shots and 1 uncharged.
Posted: 6/2/2005 6:05 PM
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ramond
Joined: 1/31/2005
Posts: 121
US version rom seems suitable to the movie. I'm not sure if beat will save time? But Nsm, could you send your run to http://www.filespace.org/? "geocities" is somewhere I can never access to...
Posted: 6/2/2005 8:44 PM
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Kholdstare
Joined: 6/1/2005
Posts: 44
Location: MS US
Stone Man: Pharoah Shot works best on the hippos. You can't use Rush Coil to jump over him. Both the Napalm Bombs and the Charged Mega Buster take off 3 energy bars from Stone Man. I think it would still be faster to use the bombs since you can use them faster.
Posted: 6/2/2005 9:02 PM
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Nsm
Joined: 5/26/2004
Posts: 39
Ok, i put my run in filespace, now with the Bright Man Trick(Tool-assisted only in the part trick) http://fast.filespace.org/nsm/megaman4b.zip im pretty sure you can past the spikes using only three times the Rush Coil :)
Posted: 6/2/2005 9:06 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Well, now I'm working on a movie that starts with RingMan. I'm going to do the same as with Mega Man 1 and make a movie for each level without using special weapons as a base to see where special weapons are useful. I was surprised that I managed to beat the ring monster in one pass with the Megger Buster...
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/2/2005 10:52 PM
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Kholdstare
Joined: 6/1/2005
Posts: 44
Location: MS US
Nsm wrote:
Ok, i put my run in filespace, now with the Bright Man Trick(Tool-assisted only in the part trick) http://fast.filespace.org/nsm/megaman4b.zip im pretty sure you can past the spikes using only three times the Rush Coil :)
Awesome. Now I wonder what I was doing wrong.
Posted: 6/2/2005 10:58 PM
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Kholdstare
Joined: 6/1/2005
Posts: 44
Location: MS US
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Well, now I'm working on a movie that starts with RingMan. I'm going to do the same as with Mega Man 1 and make a movie for each level without using special weapons as a base to see where special weapons are useful. I was surprised that I managed to beat the ring monster in one pass with the Megger Buster...
Good idea. I did something similar on an a gameboy to figure out which boss to start with. Hopefully you'll find something. They made Time Stopper, Rain Flush, and Ring Boomerang pretty useless on most of the levels.
Posted: 6/2/2005 11:01 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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I don't know... Ring Boomerang is pretty cool. I just played through PharaohMan with it, and it beat the strong enemies in two hits. Plus it can grab items if you need to grab them fast. But it's probably not worth giving up early Pharaoh Shot for.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/3/2005 8:00 PM
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ramond
Joined: 1/31/2005
Posts: 121
The exploding ship stage is a nightmare in this game...
Posted: 6/4/2005 12:42 AM
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Kholdstare
Joined: 6/1/2005
Posts: 44
Location: MS US
I've been working on the order of the second round of bosses, and I'm stuck. Even though Napalm Man is quickly killed with Pharoah Shot, I don't think it's faster to start with him because there are 3 parts on the first half of his level where Rush Jet could be useful. Also, since Charge Man might be killed faster with the Mega Buster anyway, this might be the fastest route. The only other place I see where it's useful is in Crystal Man's stage, when you're waiting on the lowering an raising platforms. Oh, and Napalm Bomb looks awesome on Charge Man's level and seems pretty useful against the robot chickens. I don't think this is reason enough to keep the route the same though. Here is a picture of what I was talking about in Napalm Man's level. Where it says "jump" is where the trick shown in Nsm's movie (slide jump in Ring Man's Stage) would be used. I'm not sure if you can do it on the first part of the first picture, so I drew up two routes.
Posted: 6/5/2005 6:02 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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All right, this should be a pretty good run of RingMan's level without special weapons. It was frustrating to make because many tricks relied on certain events to happen on certain frames, and sometimes they were offset the wrong way if I went back and changed something.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/5/2005 8:11 AM
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Kholdstare
Joined: 6/1/2005
Posts: 44
Location: MS US
It looks awesome. The only question I have is why you jump from the ladder around frame 8330. Is this to manipulate the planet enemy?
Posted: 6/5/2005 8:40 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Yeah, it needs to go more to the left so it doesn't hit me on the next ladder. I also charge up because the bigger shot will hit it sooner.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/9/2005 7:23 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Here is the movie for ToadMan.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/9/2005 7:58 AM
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ventuz
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Joined: 10/4/2004
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BoMF, thats flawless run there, 95% of it I would do the same but you had bit better tactic / more entertainmet. But Im curious whats your stages order plan? you had one from begin to Toad, and one from begin to Ring. NSM you did nice job on recording, the timing could use work (been using frame advanced? loving it..) MegaMan game appear to show change of animation 2 frames after button press. Say for example, at frame 100 you hit D + A (slide), and at frame 102 MegaMan appear to "slide" animation, counting "sliding" animation frames (34), but substract it by 2 to get another sliding input ASAP (at frame 134). In-short, make button press 2 frames before animation is done. Sorry if I dont make any sense, english isn't my prime language.
Posted: 6/9/2005 7:30 PM
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Kholdstare
Joined: 6/1/2005
Posts: 44
Location: MS US
ventuz wrote:
MegaMan game appear to show change of animation 2 frames after button press. Say for example, at frame 100 you hit D + A (slide), and at frame 102 MegaMan appear to "slide" animation, counting "sliding" animation frames (34), but substract it by 2 to get another sliding input ASAP (at frame 134). In-short, make button press 2 frames before animation is done.
I just watched the Toad Man movie with input on, and it looks like he already puts the input in earlier. Am I not reading it right? By the way, awesome 2nd snail fight.
Posted: 6/10/2005 6:43 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Well, to me it seems like 3 frames, but there may be some confusion over what "this frame" and "the next frame" are for a particular button press. I'm halfway through the initial test run of BrightMan's stage, and it's looking like one big bag of "fight the slowdown" so far. But I did discover the trick to reducing the time Meggermin spends holding his arm out when he's shooting on a ladder: Just press the opposite direction. X| So I think what I'll do after that is basically try 3 more runs of each stage, one for each special weapon to use throughout, and write down the time gains and losses that each one provides. Then I can figure out which weapon combination is optimal for each level and which level order is optimal. For testing the second set, I should probably bring along Beat for good measure, huh? You never know... I've seen him beat mini-bosses in one hit before.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 6/11/2005 12:00 PM
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Kholdstare
Joined: 6/1/2005
Posts: 44
Location: MS US
I know it takes several hits by Beat to kill the Hippo... HOWEVER, (and I just remembered this) the cannon boss on Dr. Wily's level can be killed in 1 hit by Beat, I think.
Posted: 6/11/2005 5:02 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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It's too bad you can't use him on any of the first four stages in a speedrun. You have to exit the level after getting the fourth part to get Beat.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
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