did u have a test run for ballade v2? i just killed him and hes plain hard, took me more than an hour to manipulate his movement so i can hit him with charged shots AND not getting hurt. u may wanna review it before i go on to my most hated passage: fortress escape.
ballade v2 done:
http://megaman-int.quotaless.com/tas/MM4GBB2D.zip
I've been thinking about how to do the escape. Your best bet would likely be using the Mega Buster as long as you can, then switching to Ballade Cracker when you get really boxed in. Ballade Cracker is very useful here because you can throw it in any direction and wedge it in between two or three barriers to destroy them all at once. However, it does add its own explosion that, while not damaging to MegaMan, can lag the game a bit extra, and you might want to conserve the energy for the final level. Here are some other weapons that might be useful:
Charge Kick - This looks really cool to use because you get immunity to the explosions and just slide on through, but there aren't many places where you can get by with only destroying barriers on the floor in front of you. Still, you're not going to need this many other times in the game, so you may as well try it everywhere you can to see if it saves any time.
Pharaoh Shot - Well, you can throw it up or down, though you still can't take out multiple barriers with it. Probably a bad choice since it's better to save it for bosses.
Power Stone - Also seems like a silly choice, since you have to wait for the stones to slowly spin around, and they'll probably blow up the floor beneath you. But you would hit multiple barriers with one shot, and it's another weapon that you probably won't be using much later on.
Rain Flush and Crystal Eye have no effect on the barriers, and everything else is no better than the regular Mega Buster. So I think I'd go with Mega Buster for the first few barriers, Ballade Cracker for most of the rest, and Charge Kick near the end.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
thanks for the tipps...i will try charge kick for test purposes.
i wanted to use cracker for most stuff cuz shooting it in a gap of those tanks it kills 3 at once. but i think i will be using pharaoh sometimes.
cracker is only needed for wily saucer. the head falls quickly to luck manipulate and charged buster + single shot followups.
u didnt comment on my WIPs, are they that bad? ^^
ive done the escape until neat half, its so hard to do, esp timing the right frame where the explosions dont harm u anymore although they are still showed and the different situations for the weapons, did i mention its SO hard?
anyway, let me know what u think :)
http://megaman-int.quotaless.com/tas/MM4GBEShD.zip
kay, im off till next weekend...feel free to tell me any feedback until then.
space station defender done.
the lonely shot after my first charged one seems sloppy but is used to manipulate him into doing ring boomerang a 2nd time as its his fastest attack of all others. killed in 2 turns.
http://megaman-int.quotaless.com/tas/MM4GBSSDD.zip
See, this is the kind of boss you want to save Pharaoh Shot for: http://www.mediafire.com/?ht2mthtvvg2
On the next section, you should try Flash Stopper so you don't have to wait for those rockets.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
1st Hunter at wily fortress done
please tell me any opinions on the level and the hunter fight before i move on to 2nd hunter
i plan on maniping a large refill for NA and PH, to kill hunter2/stone man and ring man fast enough.
http://megaman-int.quotaless.com/tas/MM4GB1HD.zip
Most of that looked pretty good. It's a shame we used too many Pharaoh Shots before and had to make an extra weapon switch just for the last hit on the boss. But the way you attacked the giant Mets looked slow. I probably would have used Ring Boomerang on them. And after you crashed into the gumball machine, you didn't jump off the ledge to ascend the ladder faster! You need to think of these things and be precise!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Most of that looked pretty good. It's a shame we used too many Pharaoh Shots before and had to make an extra weapon switch just for the last hit on the boss. But the way you attacked the giant Mets looked slow. I probably would have used Ring Boomerang on them. And after you crashed into the gumball machine, you didn't jump off the ledge to ascend the ladder faster! You need to think of these things and be precise!
the problem is the non refilling weapons. if i used ring boomerang on both Mets it would be near empty and i would have to manip 3 large refills, as i need ring for toadi and/or crystal man, gonna have to see into that one.
damnit. from my view it isnt faster to jump then climb, but ur propably right. should i redo that? i dont think its that bad to redo most of the wily level :) ok, apart from that, from the beginning of my running, i got very precise with movements and frame-exact jumping etc. dont blame me for one mistake :)
as u didnt say my hunter 1 fight is shitty, i take it as u think its good. so im off to the 2nd.
forget about that redoing, i pulled one hell of a segment here:
http://megaman-int.quotaless.com/tas/MM4GB2HD.zip
managed to manipulate everything i wanted to and the 2nd hunter fight went so well!
i need ur help/advice now baggy. see:
if u watch the WIP to the end, ull see the tiger drops a large refill. that brought up my mind again :) will i refill any weapon or leave it? im currently thinking about refilling RI for toadi AND crystal instead of using RI only for toadi. ballade cracker should be enough for end fight.
Something I forgot to mention: When you're on top of blocks that you wait on to fall out from under you, you should jump just before they fall so that you pass through their starting location with falling speed and land on the lower floor slightly earlier.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
good job rejecting...
now this thread dies again like 1 1/2 years ago, and it would still be dead if I wouldnt't have revived it. so this great game will never get a run on TAS.
good job rejecting...
now this thread dies again like 1 1/2 years ago, and it would still be dead if I wouldnt't have revived it. so this great game will never get a run on TAS.
HINT: Just because a game doesn't have a published movie doesn't mean any old run will suffice: It actually has to be optimized as far as the current state of knowledge about the game will allow.
GB2speedruns.net
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
PreddY wrote:
good job rejecting...
now this thread dies again like 1 1/2 years ago, and it would still be dead if I wouldnt't have revived it. so this great game will never get a run on TAS.
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
On the other hand, I didn't want to submit this movie. I was only hoping that Preddy finishing a test run would let us find improvements more easily. It's too sloppy the way it is now.
When the coauthor of the movie admits that it shouldn't have been submitted, you should probably listen, and redo it.
good job rejecting...
now this thread dies again like 1 1/2 years ago, and it would still be dead if I wouldnt't have revived it. so this great game will never get a run on TAS.
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
On the other hand, I didn't want to submit this movie. I was only hoping that Preddy finishing a test run would let us find improvements more easily. It's too sloppy the way it is now.
When the coauthor of the movie admits that it shouldn't have been submitted, you should probably listen, and redo it.
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
PreddY wrote:
mmbossman wrote:
PreddY wrote:
good job rejecting...
now this thread dies again like 1 1/2 years ago, and it would still be dead if I wouldnt't have revived it. so this great game will never get a run on TAS.
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
On the other hand, I didn't want to submit this movie. I was only hoping that Preddy finishing a test run would let us find improvements more easily. It's too sloppy the way it is now.
When the coauthor of the movie admits that it shouldn't have been submitted, you should probably listen, and redo it.
it just will never happen :D
KTHXBAI
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
On the other hand, I didn't want to submit this movie. I was only hoping that Preddy finishing a test run would let us find improvements more easily. It's too sloppy the way it is now.
When the coauthor of the movie admits that it shouldn't have been submitted, you should probably listen, and redo it.
Well, um... Here are some things to check before you start a new run:
-See if Beat helps. First we should find out how much time it costs to collect the letters, which may depend on level order. Then we should test Beat on everything to see if he beats any of the later enemies extra fast. Actually...
-Try every weapon everywhere. Basically, make a good speed run of every level using just the Mega Buster, then make another run of that same level where you use a particular weapon at every place where it would save time. Afterward, add up all the frames that that one weapon saved; this will always be minus whatever time it takes to open the menu to switch to that weapon in the first place, so you might not even have saved time if the weapon didn't help enough. Also notice how the switch time might vary depending on lag and how many other weapons you have to toggle past. Once you've gotten the time savings for each weapon collected for a level, you can compare the different weapons to see which weapon is best, or even if you should use more than one special weapon in one level. This will be much easier for the first 4 levels because you get a free refill at the end of each one. After that, you have to consider your energy bar limits for the game on the whole. Oh, and you should test Rush Jet and Rush Coil like this too, wherever they might get you past some obstacle faster.
-Finally, we need to see if there's anything in Dr. Right's lab worth making. Remember that you're forced to go there once before starting the final fortress, so at least at that point you'll only have to worry about the time penalty for purchasing the item, not the penalty for visiting the lab in the first place. Since weapon energy is a big hassle in the castle, the S tank may be a good buy, as you can refill the energy of everything at once. One downside is that you'll probably end up refilling the energy of weapons you don't need to use anymore, which simply wastes time, so in the end it might be quicker to use a W tank or just pick up refills from defeated enemies in a timely fashion. You could also buy the item that refills all your weapons instantly back at the lab, so you would still start the fortress with full weapons, and you wouldn't have to collect as many P-chips for it. But we won't really know for sure until we complete all the weapon use tests, and maybe even some P-chip collection tests.
I already made the time savings list for PharaohMan's level, and I got halfway through RingMan's level before I got bored with TAS-making again. I'll accept any help or encouragement.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
times short for me, but be sure you get my support in testing or whatsoever if u clearly STATE that you will FINISH the run once you start to redo it. Otherwise its just a waste of time for me. You understand.
but I strongly encourage you to do it, the soudntrack is so great it simply needs a run :D
Some other things I should mention: When you're deciding whether it's worth refilling energy, remember that the game freezes for 4 frames per 1 notch of energy you fill. If you wanted to refill an odd number of notches, you could collect a capsule with that many notches down, and the game-freezing will stop early (19 is the total for every bar). And remember that when you switch to a new weapon but switch back to the old one later, that's TWO switches. But if you switch to a new weapon and finish the level with it, that will be only one weapon switch. And if you were going to switch from Weapon A to Weapon B in the middle of a level anyway, you could add a switch from Weapon A to Weapon C before switching to Weapon B, and that will also be only one more menu's worth of switching time added to your plan. (I forget what the time for opening and closing the menu is in this game exactly... In the mid-fifties of frames?)
One more tip... I remembered that almost every weapon causes MegaMan to be unable to run or climb for a short time after firing. You can still jump, slide, or hang onto ladders, though. And I think you could cut the no-climbing time short by facing the opposite direction, strangely.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States
Just to let you guys know I've started working on this game already. Right now I'm in the process of researching this game. Hey Bag, it's great that you posted all this info about the game. I shall definately put it to use. Is there anything else I should know?
if u watch the WIP to the end, ull see the tiger drops a large refill. that brought up my mind again :) will i refill any weapon or leave it? im currently thinking about refilling RI for toadi AND crystal instead of using RI only for toadi. ballade cracker should be enough for end fight.
