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Posted: 5/12/2004 5:21 AM
Post subject: Ninja Gaiden 2 Glitch... ?
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stx-Vile
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 34
I had been toying with the idea of creating an improved version of the run, since some things about the first one bothered me (foremost, the slash in 6-1 that hits nothing... something I didn't notice until I had finished). While messing around in the first stage, I came upon a new glitch by accident. If you hold down left+right at the same time, the character will appear to glide to the right, or glide backwards to the right if you were facing left when you tried it. Furthermore, this glitch can be used to fly through walls at will. For example, go to the first wall facing to the left and try jumping while holding left+right... you'll shoot through the wall at full speed. It seemed like something that could accumulate saved time in a new run, but it turns out that this glitch was ONLY present in famtasia, so I'm highly reluctant to exploit it now. This leads me to my musing over this... if you happen to find a new glitch for a game, check it with other emulators as well, because this result has led me to question how much it applies to other games...
Posted: 5/12/2004 5:22 AM
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Bladegash
Former player
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 484
Location: ­­
This left+right glitch appears in several games. The various Zelda games, for example.
Posted: 5/12/2004 8:35 AM
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stx-Vile
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 34
How disappointing. I don't much feel like improving it now, since I have no significant means of improving the time.
Posted: 5/12/2004 8:41 AM
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Deviance
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
Would it be good to use an emulator-specific glitch? Up to now, everything done in time attack videos could be theoretically replicated on the real nes console. Using a famtasia-only glitch may stir up some unwanted controversy.
Posted: 5/12/2004 8:45 AM
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stx-Vile
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 34
I'm positive it would, which is why I brought it up. This is an eye-opener in that regard... to be sure of any future glitches. It was just a coincidence that this one happened to be useful.
Posted: 5/12/2004 10:40 AM
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Booda
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 149
Technically, you could make some modifications to an NES controller to allow right and left to be held simultaneously. I don't know if the augmentation of controllers is permitted, but if controllers with autofire are permitted, then I don't see the problem.
Posted: 5/12/2004 10:50 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
rght+left / up+right isn't Famtasia specific. I know only one emulator that doesn't allow it: VirtuaNES. I looked at its source code and found that it has it explicitly disabled. If you attempt to press right+left or up+down in VirtuaNES, it clears both buttons. It is explicitly written in the source code. But if you have Visual C++, you can download the VirtualNES source and fix the problem and compile VirtualNES yourself and have a version that eliminates this problem.
Posted: 5/12/2004 11:03 AM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (240)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
you can do that on the real videogame. i mean, right+left. just use an uncapped controller, so you push the buttons directly to the rubber. i used to do that on battletoads level 11 for precise directions without pressing the diagonals. note: on smb3 right+left gives a sliding status and he starts running right. i'm not sure how much speed he gains tho.
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 11/1/2004 8:42 PM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Does this not work at all on FCE Ultra? I tried it and nothing happened. If that's the case, is this a legit NES glitch at all? I'd love to see a run with this, but... -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 11/2/2004 12:11 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Josh the FunkDOC wrote:
Does this not work at all on FCE Ultra? I tried it and nothing happened. If that's the case, is this a legit NES glitch at all? I'd love to see a run with this, but... -Josh
FCEU also disallows left+right in the same manner as VirtuaNES.
Posted: 11/2/2004 12:16 AM
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Bob_Whoops
Former player
Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Nooo. I was about to start my smb full run in fceu, but that kind of ruins it. Let's see if I can get it to compile... Edit: I don't suppose this would be it, would it? if((JS & (0xC0<<x) ) == (0xC0<<x) ) JS&=~(0xC0<<x); if((JS & (0x30<<x) ) == (0x30<<x) ) JS&=~(0x30<<x); On line 334 of input.c
Posted: 11/2/2004 4:05 AM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Hmm, could there be a patch for this possibly? People shouldn't have to resort to the crap that is Famtasia to make runs with this IMO. If nothing else, FCEU's frame-advance key alone would make such runs better and less time-consuming. Just my .02, Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 11/2/2004 4:19 AM
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Bob_Whoops
Former player
Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
I think that removing those lines of codes should remove the problem. I'll try compiling it later on to see if it works.
Posted: 11/7/2004 12:12 AM
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LocalH
Joined: 10/3/2004
Posts: 138
Yes, that would be a good idea. If it's possible to do on hardware, then it should definitely not be disallowed in an emulator.
Sonic Retro
Posted: 11/12/2004 6:11 PM
Post subject: Ninja Gaiden 2
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Hey all, I've been messing around with this a bit lately. I have a glitch-free run of Act 1 up on my Filespace, it's about 2.6 seconds faster than stx-Vile's up to that point. Any feedback/suggestions would be appreciated. =) Thing is, though, as FCEU doesn't currently enable left+right, I won't seriously work on this until that is the case. The glitch with that button combination in this game isn't significant enough to warrant its own run ala Tiny Toons or Wizards & Warriors, so I'll wait and do a run with the glitch. Basically, there are two situations where I know of it helping: 1. When climbing a wall on its left side and moving to the right afterward. Use left+right for the last jump, and you'll move forward through the wall and thus be able to reach the top a few frames faster. 2. When you're on the left side of a wall, and need to jump down to the right. The glitch allows you to go through the wall and thus start moving forward much sooner. This is a pretty big timesaver, but this situation is quite rare. You can also use this glitch to glide to the right while facing left, which looks cool. =) -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 11/12/2004 6:20 PM
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Blechy
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
Glide? So you can reduce falling speed?
Posted: 11/12/2004 8:34 PM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Nah, the gliding effect only happens while standing. The glitch does allow you to jump backwards at the same speed as when you move forward. Like I said, it's of rather limited use but a fairly decent timesaver. Apparently NG1 has something very similar to this, but in NG3 it just makes you stop immediately. -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 11/12/2004 8:47 PM
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stx-Vile
Former player
Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 34
Looks good so far. I was wondering where the time saving came from and now I feel a bit silly, but no matter. If I notice anything that would help I'll be sure to point it out. EDIT: here's a possible timesaver, you might have to check me on this though. I noticed that your method of getting the double/shadow was using the enemy to boost up to the ledge, do a jumping slash to get it, then continue on. However, check this ss: http://stickmen.dreyermachine.com/vile/ng1-1.png You could do a firewheel at this point to release the double/shadow without hitting the enemy, then use the enemy to boost up to the ledge. That way, you wouldn't have to do the jumping slash to grab it and you can refill the used ninja points before the boss.
Posted: 11/12/2004 9:27 PM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
stx-Vile: Thanks for offering to help. Like I said, I won't seriously start this one for awhile (want to use the glitch, still got to do Startropics which is going to be a long freaking run), so don't worry about it for now. Edit: Once again, thank you very much. That is indeed a better method. I will have to see if it's better than the other idea I had, though, which is jump slashing the icon while facing backwards then using left+right to move at normal speed. -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 11/12/2004 11:40 PM
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
Well now there are three ways off getting up there. The Fire Wheel, getting boosted, and an invisible wall which I had found. Of course those are in the order of fastest to slowest. Blechy as for the left+right glitch: It does basicly the same thing as holding left+right in SMB. In Ninja Gaiden 2 this also brings the exploit of being able to jump off the wrong side of ladders/walls, which can cause Ryu to clip through the wall. Used at the top of a ladder it can be used to cut the corner and save a little bit of time. Also Josh was right about this glitch also being in NG1, although it doesn't behave the same way. Holding left+right in NG1 makes you slide to the right at your normal running speed. This can be very useful for doing 3 things. Climbing walls, jumping down from ledges, and jumping backwards. It helps these three things for the same reason; these all slow your air speed down. Because holding left+right moves you along at your regular running speed, simply tapping it as you take off/turn around will put you moving at the normal speed, instead of the slower speed. However, in NG1 you cannot use left+right to clip through walls like in NG2.
Posted: 11/12/2004 11:45 PM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
No, the fire wheel isn't a way of getting up there. You use it to hit the container, then get boosted up by the guy. It's better than how I do it in the current movie, but I need to see if it's better than jump slashing the container then using left+right. -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 11/12/2004 11:50 PM
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
Sorry, I guess that came our wrong. It's just a new way of doing things I guess...
Posted: 11/15/2004 10:00 AM
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TheAxeMan
Ambassador, Experienced player (696)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Nice job Josh, I had thought the current NG2 video was a little slow in the first stage. That left+right is a pretty nice glitch, too bad I can't use in NG3. Closest I found was using A button on autofire while jumping or falling backward, but you still don't get as fast as a forward jump. Not sure if this works in any other NGs but you shouldn't need it with your left+right one.
Posted: 11/16/2004 1:02 AM
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
TheAxeMan wrote:
Nice job Josh, I had thought the current NG2 video was a little slow in the first stage. That left+right is a pretty nice glitch, too bad I can't use in NG3. Closest I found was using A button on autofire while jumping or falling backward, but you still don't get as fast as a forward jump. Not sure if this works in any other NGs but you shouldn't need it with your left+right one.
Still, it's worth a shot, i'll test it for NG1. In the current version i'm not to a point where it matters yet, so we will see.
Posted: 11/16/2004 10:54 PM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Hey all, I got sick of Startropics for a little bit and messed around with this some more. The first two acts are done, you can check it out on my filespace. It's almost 6 seconds faster than stx-Vile's movie to this point (forgot the avi waits a second before starting the movie), and the second boss isn't quite perfected yet. I improved Act 1 by 40 frames from my last movie, due to stx-Vile's suggestion on how to grab the ninja double (definitely the best way, thanks a lot again!) and finding the real optimal method of walljumping. Been figuring out quite a few things about the game in the process, which means I hopefully won't make any stupid mistakes in my real run... -Josh
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
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