(Link to video)
Submission Text Full Submission Page Publication Page
In Meong, you are tasked with navigating a minefield that you can't actually see unless you sit still and wait for the mine tiles to flip over and shimmer. Except not all of them do it, and if you sit still for too long, you blow up. Screw this game.
I did not find or create a map of the levels. Instead, I played by trial and error to find the perfect route, and this movie is the final result.

Comments

The TAS strat is to mash up at 15 Hz (the game runs at 30 fps) and sprinkle in some left and right presses in between, like [up, wait, up, left, up, wait, up, wait...] As such, it is possible to dodge all obstacles without slowing down. However, certain tiles function as walls, so it's possible to press up and not go anywhere. It would be incredibly tedious to verify that this hasn't happened in my run by hand, so instead I wrote a script to detect it by watching $0664. Instead of checking my run, I invite you to do a code review!
Now, these $0664 values get a bit anomalous at the very end of each level. Somehow you need to crawl through the coordinate 06 twice... Seems like there was some sort of fencepost error and they had to nudge your position to fix it. This is the ultimate beginner entry-level reverse engineering task for kids, and Action 52 managed to make it a nightmare. I can't imagine what other horrors lurk within this code. But, by removing any up presses near these anomalies, we can confirm that they are all strictly necessary. I've included this value in the temp encode so you can see what I mean.
My script proved to me that my paths are optimal. It also picked up on some autofire mishaps that lost 2 frames in levels 1 and 2. So this is just 4 frames faster than the beta I included in that one userfile.
Note that in levels 3 and 4, you can't press up right away because there is a mine directly above you.

RAM Addresses

$0667
Facing direction. Interesting...
$06D7
Screen tile value. Not quite useful to tell if we're constantly moving up.
$06D5
World pixel value. Watching this tick down seems good enough.
$0663
Tile X. Ranges from 2 to D. But if you're on the edge of the screen and try to move further, it'll increment to 1 or E without moving you...
$0664
Screen number and Tile Y (use hexadecimal to make sense of this). Top of the level is screen 0, top of each page is y=0.

Other comments

Shoutouts to LogansGamingRoom (aka the Action Gamemaster). We happened to be working on this game at the same time, and my route won out by exactly 5 seconds. Because this happened during the judging process, his run was never published
nymx: Claiming for judging.
nymx: I'm setting to "Delayed", pending a response to my last post.
nymx: This has been one heck of a ride...starting back with the original submission from LogansGamingRoom. I figured this game had a definite solution, without any improvements...but warmCabin turned that around. To add even more shock to this, OtakuTAS comes along with improvements but unfortunately, the last improvement is going to have to be omitted from this submission for a couple of reasons.
I've awaited a response from warmCabin but I haven't heard anything to date. I've checked a few site details and it appears that post was made 7 days ago. So I'm going to move on my judgement finally.
First, thanks to LoganGamingRoom for the exposure on this game. After the first submission from LGR, I was convinced that this was a simple game and didn't have a better solution for a couple of reasons:
  • Author created a TAS, based on a seemingly optimal solution from a community site; however, I can't refer back to it...since it was deleted from that submission.
  • After reviewing the game myself, I was perplexed as some of the anomalies that were occurring. I chalk it up as just the same junk we see in the other 51 games. LOL
Second, warmCabin takes a completely different approach and scripts out a method to determine even better optimization. Basically, this BOT found some things that are not obvious at all for us to explore. So I don't fault LGR at all on his efforts; however, warmCabin has shown us that it was necessary in order to get around the horrible coding that is hindering to manual efforts.
Lastly, OtakuTAS jumps on the scene and talks of some improvements, but this is where I got confused. I first want to apologize for not understanding what was going on in the first place. The scenario was discussed that emulation could be the reason for some of the frame cuts discovered; however, I thought it was within the use of FCEUX. The improvements were uploaded, via the WIP area, but for bizhawk. Even then...Otaku's TAS was done on "Action 52 (USA) (Rev A) (Unl).nes", while warmCabin used "Action 52 (USA) (Unl).nes". So "Revision A" was the reason for all the frame cuts. Now that I understand what is going on...this is not really an improvement in game play, but just a loading difference.
Turns out that these Action 52 games may have many horrible mechanics and coding details, but they have ended up being a fascinating venture in the world of TASing.
Accepting for publication.
despoa: Processing...

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Posted: 8/15/2023 4:16 AM
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TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #8527: warmCabin's NES Action 52: Meong in 01:02.06
Posted: 8/15/2023 10:07 AM
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LoganTheTASer
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well done on improving what i thought was perfect! i like the nickname as well
Posted: 8/17/2023 5:50 PM
(Edited: 8/17/2023 5:53 PM)
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OtakuTAS
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87 frames saved. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638278907131826344 Your menuing: Us [lag frame] [input delay] U [input delay] U [input delay] US My menuing: U [input delay] U [input delay] U [input delay] USs This saves one frame of movement and one frame of lag as it does not appear triggering start and select on the same frame creates the lag frame as normal. That saves 2 frames in total. For some reason this also let me press start sooner on the next screen sooner, also saving another frame. So that is 2 frames. Additionally, I don't know if your script messed up or what, but you can start each level much earlier than you did. However, I'm running NesHawk on BizHawk 2.9.1. This was something I did not expect as I figured NES emulation should be consistent at this point across all approved platforms after decades of work, and the huge difference is obviously worrisome. So perhaps this is not an error on your part but emulation error, but sure is a heck of a lot of frames, so I'm not sure what's up with this. All the movement started late, and the inbetween of levels was delayed by several frames. I'm chalking it up to emulation error but it definitely should be looked into. Co-author would be nice but I'm leaving that up to you if this ends up being emulation error. I didn't change much other than the menuing then. I've seen 1 frame and 2 frame co-authors but not sure I want to be that guy...
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12 Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023 My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Posted: 8/17/2023 5:54 PM
(Edited: 8/17/2023 5:56 PM)
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OtakuTAS
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It also should be noted I lost 5-6 frames from the cheetah menu to the selection menu, before any inputs are possible, so there's something odd going on here. However I then gained back much more later on. Lose some, take many. Your FCEUX is 3.5 versions out of date (2.3.0 vs. 2.6.5) and 3 years out of date, so maybe that is why. But even then I thought they had it pretty downpact in 2021.
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12 Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023 My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Posted: 8/18/2023 12:56 PM
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nymx
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Wow...This game is not so trivial after all. Well, warmCabin...do you agree to OtakuTAS's request?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Posted: 8/21/2023 1:10 AM
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nymx
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I'm reaching out again to get approval for adding OtakuTAS' to your work. Can you report back with your agreement?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Posted: 8/21/2023 8:37 AM
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warmCabin
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Something weird always happens with these things! I think you may be overestimating what my script really did for me. Let me walk you through the process.
  1. Manually TAS to the first gameplay input
  2. Use TASEditor autofire to generate a baseline of up mashing
  3. Sprinkle in some left and right presses to avoid obstacles without slowing down
  4. Use my script to verify that there were no errors in steps 2-3
So if I'm 30 frames late or whatever to the first gameplay input, that's on me. And I know you probably don't trust me after the toenail incident, but I promise you I am not that sloppy. Let me detail some of my test results. FCEUX 2.3.0 I have deeply personal reasons for not wanting to update my FCEUX past this version. Go ahead, ask me if I'm joking. If you look at my inputs, they are lag-perfect. 1007 is the first frame I can press up on the first level with my menuing. Your menuing only saves 1 frame. BizHawk 2.3.1 The version of BizHawk I happened to have. I swear this is a coincidence... I got the same 1007 start frame as I did on FCEUX 2.3.0 (not including your menu save). I tried your movie and it doesn't sync. BizHawk 2.9.1 I get a start frame of 1011. I loaded up your userfile, and...it didn't sync. Huh? I saw a brief pop up that says something about "ROM hashes," sounds like nerd stuff! Probably best to ignore it. ----------------------------------------------- Nah jk, looks like you're using Rev A. I'm using the original release. I thought the ROM name was enough to clarify that (my other one is Action 52 (USA) (Rev A) (Unl).nes), but I probably should have put something in the version box. Sorry for the confusion. Let me rerun my tests on Rev A to confirm that these emulators aren't completely broken. FCEUX 2.3.0 Got a start frame of 989. Your menu thing saves 1 frame. BizHawk 2.3.1 Got a start frame of 998. Your menu thing only saves 1 frame. BizHawk 2.9.1 Got a start frame of 994. Your movie syncs, and indeed is 2 frames faster thanks to the menuing. I still get the hash warning, though... ------------------------------------------- I didn't have time to test past the first stage on all of these, but you get the idea. Still quite a bit of variance even up to that point. Is that normal for most games? Either way, it does seem like Rev A is legitimately faster, and your menuing tech is a legitimate save regardless of emulator or game revision.
Posted: 8/21/2023 8:53 AM
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warmCabin
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Synced Rev A on FCEUX 2.3.0 and it saves 90 frames, + 1 from the menu tech.
Posted: 8/21/2023 6:19 PM
(Edited: 8/21/2023 6:20 PM)
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OtakuTAS
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I'm thinking there is a timesave with Rev A that is valid, and then the further timesave on such an old emulator is a result of emulation inaccuracy. I'd use BizHawk 2.9.1 and get the extra frame
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12 Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023 My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Posted: 8/23/2023 2:03 AM
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nymx
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Ok...any final instructions? What are we going with? warmCabin's "Synced Rev A on FCEUX 2.3.0" confirmation?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Posted: 8/23/2023 2:31 AM
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nymx
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I need to clarify one thing, in regards to OtakuTAS's concerns. I understand that there are some differences being discussed here between the use of FCEUX and Bizhawk. I am leaving it to the two of you to discuss how you want to proceed, even though there is a disagreement on which emulator to use. Just note, that FCEUX is still on our accepted list of emulators...even though it has been reported as less accurate (according to https://tasvideos.org/Emulatorresources/NESaccuracytests). I am in favor of accepting this TAS, but I would like to have this situation cleared up first. Can you the two of you continue your discussion here in this thread so that I can make any corrections and move on my judgement?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Posted: 8/28/2023 5:19 AM
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Samsara
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A large portion of this thread was excised and moved to Grue. Please refrain from continuing said conversation here.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | Cohost
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Posted: 8/28/2023 5:58 AM
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lexikiq
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This is a cool TAS, I quite like ones that make good use of scripting tools to achieve near perfection. Meh for entertainment though ;P. Hope the confusion over publication can get sorted out.
Posted: 8/29/2023 3:11 AM
Post subject: Movie published
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TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [5528] NES Action 52: Meong by warmCabin in 01:02.06
Posted: 8/29/2023 9:25 AM
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LoganTheTASer
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i will not be a part of this community if this much drama happens over a single emulator difference. absolutely disgusting. this message is targeted towards everyone involved with this situation. i’m not targeting anyone in particular.
Posted: 8/29/2023 9:39 AM
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Noxxa
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LogansGamingRoom wrote:
i will not be a part of this community if this much drama happens over a single emulator difference. absolutely disgusting. this message is targeted towards everyone involved with this situation. i’m not targeting anyone in particular.
This is not the place to have this conversation (and I'll echo Samsara's request to refrain from continuing it here), but all I can say on this is that it's far from an isolated incident, which is why things escalated the way they did. It's not just about a single emulator difference.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.